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Euron the Abomination


DarkSister1001

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Here's what I think. OP is right, Euron is a skinchanger and Bloodraven did screw with Euron or is still screwing with Euron.

Bloodraven is also responsible for the Bridge of Dreams, for getting JC greyscale. Bloodraven is Garin.

Bloodraven is trying to bring greyscale to Westeros.

Euron will get inflicted with greyscale, hence the dead Grey King. This is Bloodraven's plan.

Euron will inflict Drogon with greyscale. Drogon is the great stone beast breathing shadowflame.

Drogon will turn to stone, gradually, his flame snuffed out, and in it's place he will breathe greyscale, inflicting Westeros wholesale.

This is all Bloodraven's design. Garin is credited with having given the Valyrian's pause in the second spice war. Bloodraven is doing this because greyscale will nullify the Others. Probably those with greyscale can not be wighted.

Bran will be horrified by BR's ruthless ineloquent plan and help undo it. And if BR doesn't die naturally Bran will kill him.

Stone Drogon is therefor the dragon that must be woken from stone.

Dany will wake him from stone. When she does she has slain the lie that the stone beast breathing shadowflame is the solution to the Others. And the greyscale curse on everyone Stone Drogon breathed shadowflame on will be lifted.

Quote

Haldon nodded. "Benerro has sent forth the word from Volantis. Her coming is the fulfillment of an ancient prophecy. From smoke and salt was she born to make the world anew. She is Azor Ahai returned … and her triumph over darkness will bring a summer that will never end … death itself will bend its knee, and all those who die fighting in her cause shall be reborn …"

 

As an aside, Stone Drogon will become a sea dragon. The drowned god having the last laugh against Euron who wants only to fly. And he will be swallowed by a leviathan.

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1 hour ago, chrisdaw said:

Here's what I think. OP is right, Euron is a skinchanger and Bloodraven did screw with Euron or is still screwing with Euron.

Bloodraven is also responsible for the Bridge of Dreams, for getting JC greyscale. Bloodraven is Garin.

Bloodraven is trying to bring greyscale to Westeros.

Euron will get inflicted with greyscale, hence the dead Grey King. This is Bloodraven's plan.

Euron will inflict Drogon with greyscale. Drogon is the great stone beast breathing shadowflame.

Interesting interpretation. Not something that I was considering. I am actually working on a different larger picture involving a war between Bloodraven, Bran, and the Children against the Citadel and the Faith of the Seven. What I am not sure of yet is the part the Others are in all this and whether or not it's an army that Bloodraven and the Children are assembling to send south to defeat the Citadel. This is a theory in development that I haven't posted yet, but it's an expansion of the inversion chapters that I am currently working on.

But to get back to Euron the Abomination...I think he's modeled on a Marvel comics character Baron Mordo...something that was brought to my attention by SomePigNoDoubt's essays The Marvel-ous World of ASOIAF. She details the connections between Euron and Baron Mordo in The Great Arc: Strange Days Indeed.

In a nutshell, Euron is a failed apprentice of Bloodraven who had been training him and keeping him close, but abandoned him in favor of Bran.

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3 hours ago, chrisdaw said:

^^^ Are you aware leviathans in ASOIAF are the largest species of whale?

The word "Leviathan" has two meanings. The classic is the specific seven headed sea dragon of Caananite mythology - that's the biblical leviathan. Leviathan has a more general use, which is "a super large something," particularly an acquatic something but not always. Sam is called a leviathan mockingly by Lazy Leo because he's fat. You're quite right that Martin uses the word for large whales, and this is common in the real world too. 

But, in a story written by someone who is well versed in world mythology and which features a prominent multi-headed dragon and the idea of a sea-dragon, you can be sure he is referencing the original leviathan at times as well. 

Theres also the Thoman Hobbes sense of the word, which my buddy Yezen has based his blog on. That's a leviathan in the sense of one universally feared enemy which unites everyone. 

https://weirwoodleviathan.wordpress.com

As for the legend of the sea dragon, that one is no mystery of you general accept my idea of meteor impacts causing the Long Night. Martin lays out the dragons = comets = flaming swords analogies early on, which I detailed in my first episode. If a comet or meteor can be a dragon, as they are in world mythology, then a sea dragon which drowns whole islands is simply an impact which causes tsunamis - any ocean impact of a large meteor would indeed cause tsunamis. Impacts can also trigger earthquakes which can trigger floods as well. The island drowning is the giveaway here. There is now way to make sense of a whale growing an island, is there? But a meteor - sure, absolutely. It's the only thing that makes sense. 

Take a look at the Durran Godhrief myth next to the Hammer of the Waters myth. The Hammer was a meteor impact, according to my thinking, and right close by we have this story of a cataclysmic flood and storm. Any sort of impact large enough to trigger the destruction of the Arm of Dorne would in fact send massive tsunamis up the newly opened Narrow Sea and strike right at Storm's End. 

IF I am right that Martin is thinking about a 10,000 year old impact event, the realistic way for him to do so would be to create culturally adapted fuzzy memories of fire in the sky and streaking meteors which caused destruction. This is exactly what we see - dragons coming from the moon in one story, some kind of divinely terrible thunderbolt, an island-drowning sea dragon, a "hammer of the waters" which was "called down," implying a falling hammer. We also have the Dawn story of a meteor impact as well as the Bloodstone Emperor worshipping a black stone that fell from the sky. Even Hugor Hill had seven stars pulled down from heaven for his crown. Oh and don't forget Ser Galladon of Morne. The maiden herself "lost her heart" to Galldon, and gave home a magic sword. This is the same story - the maiden is the moon maiden, she lost her "heart" when it became a falling star, and this was made into a magic sword. Finally, in the story of the forging of Lightbringer, when Azor Ahai stabs Nissa Nissa, the moon cracks open  

Basically, if we only had the one story of dragons coming from the moon, I could claim it's a story about meteors but wouldn't be able to connect it to anything. But that's not the case. I first connected the Qarthine lunar origin of dragons story to the Lightbringer story because the moon cracks in both, and from there I was like "well, if this big impact event really happened, it will be remembered in other myths as well." They are changed for the culture who makes the myth, and the true meanings forgotten over time by most (happens all the time in the real world), but they are basically everywhere. 

And then there's that scene where Benerro literally pantomimes the entire event:

Quote

 

The knight nodded.  “The red temple buys them as children and makes them priests or temple prostitutes or warriors.  Look there.”  He pointed at the steps, where a line of men in ornate armor and orange cloaks stood before the temple’s doors, clasping spears with points like writhing flames. “The Fiery Hand.  The Lord of Light’s sacred soldiers, defenders of the temple.”   

Fire knights. “And how many fingers does this hand have, pray?”   

“One thousand.  Never more, and never less.  A new flame is kindled for every one that gutters out.” 

Benerro jabbed a finger at the moon, made a fist, spread his hands wide.  When his voice rose in a crescendo, flames leapt from his fingers with a sudden whoosh and made the crowd gasp.  The priest could trace fiery letters in the air as well. Valyrian glyphs.  Tyrion recognized perhaps two in ten; one was Doom, the other Darkness.  (ADWD, Tyrion)

 

Sorry for the side-tracking here. 

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I quite agree with LmLs explanation of the symbolism of the meteors, etc but disagree that this heralded the beginning of the Long Night. I believe this cataclysm ended the Long Night much like the Biblical Flood wiped out the majority of human life in one big "do over". 

To put it simply the First Men adopted the old gods as their religion, but abused and distorted it's ice magic properties. The Children retaliated by turning to fire magic as a nuclear option wiping out the First Men and placing survivors north of the Wall.

The next wave of invaders were the Andals who had their own religion called the Faith of the Seven. This faith has been controlling Westeros ever since by placing maesters in every great House to educate their children and stamp out any reference to magic.

The current story has a return of both kinds of magic and their respective followers coming together to battle for Westeros, and maybe even to join forces against the Faith of the Seven.

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 I think it's awesome how the same set of symbols can be interpreted in different ways - even a slight change in interpretation can change the ramifications of an idea :) That's what drives the forums and makes for so much interesting discussion. :)

I certainly agree that the Others and ice magic is a result of twisting greenseer magic, and I believe the exact same is true of fire magic. You timeline makes sense in terms of the on the ground storyline, but I can't get around the fact that comet and meteor impacts will indeed cause a volcanic winter (a long night) if they are large enough. If we have a long night and a meteor impact, it just seems counterintuitive not to associate them with each other. What I am seeing is that the Others were created in part as a reaction / fallout to the moon explosion, and then someone used the pieces of destroyed moon to work against the evil wrought by Azor Ahai, the moon breaker. So we still end up with fire being used to fight Others by the NW. It's fun to discuss, in any case. As long as we are talking about moon meteors, I'm happy. :)

 

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8 hours ago, LmL said:

 I think it's awesome how the same set of symbols can be interpreted in different ways - even a slight change in interpretation can change the ramifications of an idea :) That's what drives the forums and makes for so much interesting discussion. :)

I certainly agree that the Others and ice magic is a result of twisting greenseer magic, and I believe the exact same is true of fire magic. You timeline makes sense in terms of the on the ground storyline, but I can't get around the fact that comet and meteor impacts will indeed cause a volcanic winter (a long night) if they are large enough. If we have a long night and a meteor impact, it just seems counterintuitive not to associate them with each other. What I am seeing is that the Others were created in part as a reaction / fallout to the moon explosion, and then someone used the pieces of destroyed moon to work against the evil wrought by Azor Ahai, the moon breaker. So we still end up with fire being used to fight Others by the NW. It's fun to discuss, in any case. As long as we are talking about moon meteors, I'm happy. :)

 

Most definitely on board with moon meteors! lol

Did you catch the show tonight? Namely:

I feel like they confirmed the symbolism that as a man of the Night's Watch, Jon Snow was a Drowned Man and as a sacrificed offering to the Drowned God he was resuscitated with a life saving breath of air.

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1 minute ago, Feather Crystal said:

Most definitely on board with moon meteors! lol

Did you catch the show tonight? Namely:

 

  Hide contents

 

I feel like they confirmed the symbolism that as a man of the Night's Watch, Jon Snow was a Drowned Man and as a sacrificed offering to the Drowned God he was resuscitated with a life saving breath of air.

 

 

Yeah I don't know about all of that. But then I don't know your whole line of reasoning about the NW and the drowned men. I've seen some of that theory that under the sea means north of the Wall, but I didn't really have a strong opinion on it. I didn't see anything on the show about Jon being a drowned man. And Mel didn't breathe into his lungs or anything. I actually expected the kiss of fire but nope, just some chanting. Don't think we can draw many conclusions from what the show did with his resurrection. They skipped Jon being in Ghost, death paying for life, all that.

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53 minutes ago, LmL said:

 

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Yeah I don't know about all of that. But then I don't know your whole line of reasoning about the NW and the drowned men. I've seen some of that theory that under the sea means north of the Wall, but I didn't really have a strong opinion on it. I didn't see anything on the show about Jon being a drowned man. And Mel didn't breathe into his lungs or anything. I actually expected the kiss of fire but nope, just some chanting. Don't think we can draw many conclusions from what the show did with his resurrection. They skipped Jon being in Ghost, death paying for life, all that.

 

You have to first recognize that there are thirty chapters spread out through AFFC and ADWD that have titles instead of POV names. These chapters are inversion stories that not only tell the present story, but also one from the past. My theory includes the opening of a squeaky iron hinge that is the cause of all the inversions. The Iron Islands are the mirrored image of Dragonstone, so the Greyjoys and Targaryens have switched places. Aemon and Bloodraven are currently at the Wall, so the religion of the Drowned God and his followers the Drowned Men now apply to the Nights Watch and the north is underwater. Did you catch Bloodraven's words to Bran on the show tonight...something about not being able to stay under the sea for too long? He said, "It's beautiful under the sea, but if you stay too long you'll drown." To which Bran replied, "I wasn't drowning! I was home!"

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On ‎1‎/‎05‎/‎2016 at 1:36 AM, chrisdaw said:

Here's what I think. OP is right, Euron is a skinchanger and Bloodraven did screw with Euron or is still screwing with Euron.

Bloodraven is also responsible for the Bridge of Dreams, for getting JC greyscale. Bloodraven is Garin.

Bloodraven is trying to bring greyscale to Westeros.

Euron will get inflicted with greyscale, hence the dead Grey King. This is Bloodraven's plan.

Euron will inflict Drogon with greyscale. Drogon is the great stone beast breathing shadowflame.

Drogon will turn to stone, gradually, his flame snuffed out, and in it's place he will breathe greyscale, inflicting Westeros wholesale.

This is all Bloodraven's design. Garin is credited with having given the Valyrian's pause in the second spice war. Bloodraven is doing this because greyscale will nullify the Others. Probably those with greyscale can not be wighted.

Bran will be horrified by BR's ruthless ineloquent plan and help undo it. And if BR doesn't die naturally Bran will kill him.

Stone Drogon is therefor the dragon that must be woken from stone.

Dany will wake him from stone. When she does she has slain the lie that the stone beast breathing shadowflame is the solution to the Others. And the greyscale curse on everyone Stone Drogon breathed shadowflame on will be lifted.

 

As an aside, Stone Drogon will become a sea dragon. The drowned god having the last laugh against Euron who wants only to fly. And he will be swallowed by a leviathan.

The shadow flame, the disease Euron will inflict on Drogon and thus the whole of Westeros will not be straight Greyscale, Garin's Curse, it will turn Drogon to stone over time but it might not even turn people to stone, and it  will work. It will turn people's blood black and dull their warmth, their fire, and the Others will not only be unable to turn them to wights, it will stop the Others being able to find them, as Old Nan says they sense people by the warmth of their blood.

But it will also have the nasty side effect of making the whole population baron. That's why Asshai by the shadow, the capital of blood magic, has no children. And why the great beast breathing shadowflame is not the answer to the Others, though it may appear it at first, it's just another path to doom, and hence a lie Dany must slay, like Stannis and his fake Lightbringer.

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  • 4 weeks later...
37 minutes ago, DarkSister1001 said:

Thanks @DarkSister1001 I only had time to glance through it. I'm excited to read it!

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28 minutes ago, DarkSister1001 said:

You're welcome!  Me too!  I don't want to spoil anything for anyone, but...

  Hide contents

He specifically mentions the screaming rusted iron hinges again.  Poor Damphair.  :(

 

 

I agree! Poor Damphair! The Foresaken chapter pretty much confirms the raping of children, which is actually an inversion to Bloodraven's actions towards Bran. I think this is evidence that Bloodraven arranged for things in order for Bran to fall.

If you want to figure out what Euron's intensions are in this chapter, you can get an idea by looking for parallels to Bloodraven and his attendants the Children, and view Victarion as reliving Aegor "Bittersteel" Rivers. If Dany is the Mother of Dragons and Aegon the Conqueror, then Euron and Victarion are a type of Sixth Blackfyre Rebellion, except everything will be reversed and "Bloodraven" has joined forces with "Bittersteel".

Daemon III and Bittersteel crossed the Narrow Sea from the east for the 4th Blackfyre Rebellion and landed on Massey's Hook which protects the Blackwater river on the east side of Westeros, but are ultimately defeated by Aegon V and his sons. Aegon V is the one that sent Bloodraven to the Wall, but he succeeds in putting down the Blackfyres seemingly without Bloodraven's help. Or did he?

The reverse is Victarion (Bittersteel) landing on the Shield Islands which protect the Mander river on the west side of Westeros. Euron takes a fleet west across the Sunset Sea to bring the "Blackfyre rebellion" to Daenerys Targaryen. As impossible as it may seem, this time the "Blackfyres" will succeed in defeating OR joining forces with the Targaryens, and this time they will have the dragons. They say the Golden Company has broken their contract...did they? Are they pretending to be on Dany's side, or are they really on Euron's side? The Golden Company has always supported the Blackfyre cause, so I think we will see a betrayal...the one for gold. Finally, I expect Euron to attack Westeros from the west since the Iron Islands are the inversion to Dragonstone.

JonCon's Aegon represents the mirror to the Rhoynar...they did float this river...but instead of Nymeria coming to Dorne, Arianne is bringing Dorne to them.

And there's a super cool ending idea by Some Pig in that the final King in the North (and Nights King Jon Snow/Stark) will not bend the knee to the dragons.

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Geez, IDK how I missed some posts from earlier this month...

On ‎5‎/‎1‎/‎2016 at 8:36 AM, chrisdaw said:

Here's what I think. OP is right, Euron is a skinchanger and Bloodraven did screw with Euron or is still screwing with Euron.

Bloodraven is also responsible for the Bridge of Dreams, for getting JC greyscale. Bloodraven is Garin.

Bloodraven is trying to bring greyscale to Westeros.

Euron will get inflicted with greyscale, hence the dead Grey King. This is Bloodraven's plan.

Euron will inflict Drogon with greyscale. Drogon is the great stone beast breathing shadowflame.

Drogon will turn to stone, gradually, his flame snuffed out, and in it's place he will breathe greyscale, inflicting Westeros wholesale.

This is all Bloodraven's design. Garin is credited with having given the Valyrian's pause in the second spice war. Bloodraven is doing this because greyscale will nullify the Others. Probably those with greyscale can not be wighted.

Bran will be horrified by BR's ruthless ineloquent plan and help undo it. And if BR doesn't die naturally Bran will kill him.

Stone Drogon is therefor the dragon that must be woken from stone.

Dany will wake him from stone. When she does she has slain the lie that the stone beast breathing shadowflame is the solution to the Others. And the greyscale curse on everyone Stone Drogon breathed shadowflame on will be lifted.

VERY interesting.  He's definitely a means-to-an-end kind of guy so I could see him having a hand in this.

On ‎5‎/‎1‎/‎2016 at 9:53 AM, Feather Crystal said:

In a nutshell, Euron is a failed apprentice of Bloodraven who had been training him and keeping him close, but abandoned him in favor of Bran.

:cheers:

On ‎5‎/‎1‎/‎2016 at 0:24 PM, Feather Crystal said:

To put it simply the First Men adopted the old gods as their religion, but abused and distorted it's ice magic properties. The Children retaliated by turning to fire magic as a nuclear option wiping out the First Men and placing survivors north of the Wall.

The next wave of invaders were the Andals who had their own religion called the Faith of the Seven. This faith has been controlling Westeros ever since by placing maesters in every great House to educate their children and stamp out any reference to magic.

The current story has a return of both kinds of magic and their respective followers coming together to battle for Westeros, and maybe even to join forces against the Faith of the Seven.

That's a really neat take.  I've always thought that the Others were a result of the CotF having blood magic back fire on them.

Spoiler

I hate to rely on the show since it's not cannon BUT I like the way they showed them creating the Others.  Mostly bc it fits the malarkey I've been spewing.  lol

I have to wonder...Was the attempt to train Euron, a non-Old Gods worshipper somehow a violation of a deal made to keep the Others at bay?

3 hours ago, Feather Crystal said:

 

 

  Reveal hidden contents

 

I agree! Poor Damphair! The Foresaken chapter pretty much confirms the raping of children, which is actually an inversion to Bloodraven's actions towards Bran. I think this is evidence that Bloodraven arranged for things in order for Bran to fall.

If you want to figure out what Euron's intensions are in this chapter, you can get an idea by looking for parallels to Bloodraven and his attendants the Children, and view Victarion as reliving Aegor "Bittersteel" Rivers. If Dany is the Mother of Dragons and Aegon the Conqueror, then Euron and Victarion are a type of Sixth Blackfyre Rebellion, except everything will be reversed and "Bloodraven" has joined forces with "Bittersteel".

Daemon III and Bittersteel crossed the Narrow Sea from the east for the 4th Blackfyre Rebellion and landed on Massey's Hook which protects the Blackwater river on the east side of Westeros, but are ultimately defeated by Aegon V and his sons. Aegon V is the one that sent Bloodraven to the Wall, but he succeeds in putting down the Blackfyres seemingly without Bloodraven's help. Or did he?

The reverse is Victarion (Bittersteel) landing on the Shield Islands which protect the Mander river on the west side of Westeros. Euron takes a fleet west across the Sunset Sea to bring the "Blackfyre rebellion" to Daenerys Targaryen. As impossible as it may seem, this time the "Blackfyres" will succeed in defeating OR joining forces with the Targaryens, and this time they will have the dragons. They say the Golden Company has broken their contract...did they? Are they pretending to be on Dany's side, or are they really on Euron's side? The Golden Company has always supported the Blackfyre cause, so I think we will see a betrayal...the one for gold. Finally, I expect Euron to attack Westeros from the west since the Iron Islands are the inversion to Dragonstone.

JonCon's Aegon represents the mirror to the Rhoynar...they did float this river...but instead of Nymeria coming to Dorne, Arianne is bringing Dorne to them.

And there's a super cool ending idea by Some Pig in that the final King in the North (and Nights King Jon Snow/Stark) will not bend the knee to the dragons.

 

 

I'm trying to find a few quite minutes to read the full transcript but with the notes I've read, I think you're right. 

Spoiler

Even GRRM called people sick mother-effers for wanting to hear an ironborn one.  lol  He's knows they're twisted as shit!

 

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59 minutes ago, DarkSister1001 said:

Geez, IDK how I missed some posts from earlier this month...

VERY interesting.  He's definitely a means-to-an-end kind of guy so I could see him having a hand in this.

:cheers:

That's a really neat take.  I've always thought that the Others were a result of the CotF having blood magic back fire on them.

  Hide contents

I hate to rely on the show since it's not cannon BUT I like the way they showed them creating the Others.  Mostly bc it fits the malarkey I've been spewing.  lol

I have to wonder...Was the attempt to train Euron, a non-Old Gods worshipper somehow a violation of a deal made to keep the Others at bay?

I'm trying to find a few quite minutes to read the full transcript but with the notes I've read, I think you're right. 

  Reveal hidden contents

Even GRRM called people sick mother-effers for wanting to hear an ironborn one.  lol  He's knows they're twisted as shit!

 

To the bolded above...the mummer's version did confirm exactly what you suspected regarding the creation of the Others, but I am wary to confirm any theory with the show. I just have a hard time believing that GRRM would allow his biggest mysteries to be revealed on tv before the book.

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29 minutes ago, Feather Crystal said:

To the bolded above...the mummer's version did confirm exactly what you suspected regarding the creation of the Others, but I am wary to confirm any theory with the show. I just have a hard time believing that GRRM would allow his biggest mysteries to be revealed on tv before the book.

Yeah, hard to agree with the show, but hard to ignore the possibility too.  Whatever happens in the books that is in this Season, I'm sure will be much more eloquently done. 

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1 minute ago, DarkSister1001 said:

Yeah, hard to agree with the show, but hard to ignore the possibility too.  Whatever happens in the books that is in this Season, I'm sure will be much more eloquently done. 

:agree:

Have you had a chance to read the new chapter? Here's a link for anyone that hasn't yet: LINK

It was fabulously dark! I must be one of the sick ones, because I thought it was great! I was also excited to learn that it was titled versus a "name" POV. The Forsaken would be the 31st inversion chapter, and since I'm almost finished with The Reaver it felt like the two chapters should be read one after the other. I've posted two parts of my interpretation for The Reaver, but there is yet a third part to go. It's amazing how much information can be packed into one chapter.

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21 minutes ago, Feather Crystal said:

:agree:

Have you had a chance to read the new chapter? Here's a link for anyone that hasn't yet: LINK

It was fabulously dark! I must be one of the sick ones, because I thought it was great! I was also excited to learn that it was titled versus a "name" POV. The Forsaken would be the 31st inversion chapter, and since I'm almost finished with The Reaver it felt like the two chapters should be read one after the other. I've posted two parts of my interpretation for The Reaver, but there is yet a third part to go. It's amazing how much information can be packed into one chapter.

I just finished it.  LOVED it!  Very dark and twisty. 

Spoiler

He's collecting all types of religious figures, except those relating to the OG.  Perhaps bc they don't have traditional priests but I think it's bc he thinks of himself as one of their "priests" bc of his abilities.  He reminds me a lot of Lucifer.  He's BR's fallen angel. 

 

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