Will Theon Greyjoy be able to redeem himself in the eyes of the Starks?

[A Ghost of Someone]

On 4/28/2016 at 5:20 AM, Lord Greenhood said:

If D&D wills it

yeah, on the show, people and things can be twisted any way D&D&C want, on a whim. He has done too much to be totally forgiven but leverage against him is that he does not want to be with Ramsay again so anything is better than that in his point of view. Use him but  just do not abuse him. Mitigate your losses in his existence if you are House Stark.

[Ruhail]

He owed them nothing in my eyes. 

[A Ghost of Someone]

16 minutes ago, Ruhail said:

He owed them nothing in my eyes. 

In regards to what?

[Ruhail]

7 minutes ago, A Ghost of Someone said:

In regards to what?

Loyalty he was either way a traitor because of his split identity 

[Ser Quork]

1 minute ago, Ruhail said:

Loyalty he was either way a traitor because of his split identity 

In the show, iirc, he pledged his sword to Robb, so I think he did owe Robb loyalty in that respect.

[A Ghost of Someone]

3 minutes ago, Ruhail said:

Loyalty he was either way a traitor because of his split identity 

I look at Theon as to betraying Robb, taking Winterfell, in the show, murdering Ser Rodrick, having the young ladies of Wintefell brought to him like "clockwork" to be raped and I guess it was Ramsay who stabbed Maester Lewin but Theon "taking" of Winterfell after going as an "envoy" by Robb was pretty bad. It let to a chain reaction of many events and opened the door for Ramsay to take Winterfell after and causing Bran and Rickon to Flee. Theon has done some bad shit to the Starks and we have not even mentioned the staff and those boys were also murdered.

[Ruhail]

8 minutes ago, Ser Quork said:

In the show, iirc, he pledged his sword to Robb, so I think he did owe Robb loyalty in that respect.

Yh on the show his fuck up was worse cuz no Reek subplot 

[Ser Quork]

1 minute ago, Ruhail said:

Yh on the show his fuck up was worse cuz no Reek subplot 

Yes, this too.

[episodenone]

11 hours ago, Winter's Cold said:

Neither would forgive him for capturing Winterfell, executing Rodrik Cassel and killing two innocent children. Sansa may be able to ignore his past actions because he saved her life. Arya and Jon however have no reasons to do so. Arya would find a time to covertly assassinate him. Jon would chop off his head. That's why it's best for him to not be anywhere within their general vicinity.

People who disagreed with my post seem to have forgotten about all this.  Theon is to blame as much if not more than anyone for the fall of Winterfell.  "Hostage" may be the literal word for Theon's situation under Ned Stark -- but hell -- if that's life as a hostage... even this show has shown how crappy life can be as a hostage versus whatever it was that Theon was living as.

Jamie as a hostage was in a cage with a Direwolf snarling at him.  Theon was practically a ward of Ned's -- and Robb was possibly his bestie.  He betrayed him.He betrayed Bran and Rickon. He murdered Rodrik and killed 2 kids to cover his failure to murder his "little brothers"

His punishment from the Bastard has no bearing on why the Starks should forgive him.  Why would it?

And Sansa is far from empathetic from those that did her wrong! She has NEVER remotely been in a position to do anything about it!  Saint Theon deserves to die for his transgressions - he didn't exactly plan a rescue for Sansa -- he was just there on the balcony and "grew a set" at the right moment.  Of course the right moment was when she first got there and he was well aware of what she might face.

It's been a while since I read the books - but I remember Theon needing a heck of a lot more time before his chapter titles became Theon and not Reek - and if I recall correctly had a much longer road to recovery before I ever felt any empathy for him.

On the show - I do not correlate Ramsey doing to to Theon anything on behalf of the Starks - just poetic or karmic justice. Stark justice is more black and white - I'm all for seeing Sansa use Oathkeeper [formerly Ned's blade Ice if you recall!]

[Maxxine]

For purposes of the book and show, I think Theon can get some forgiveness from some of the Starks because he didn't actually kill Bran and Rickon and he wasn't the one who burned Winterfell. If he take steps to help the North I could see forgiveness. However, I don't think forgiveness equals pardon. Even though I'm not a Stannis fan he said one of the best lines ever imo (and I can't remember if it was book Stannis or show Stannis or both) "bad deeds do not erase the good and good deeds don't erase the bad." So, he still has to be punished. Maybe the Wall instead of death. That's if he even makes it that far. I predict that'll he'll die before that decision even has to be made.

I don't understand why people are trying to act like what Theon did wasn't betrayal. Even if its not betrayal of the Starks as a whole, it's clearly a betrayal of Robb. He and Robb were friends. Theon says himself Robb was almost a brother to him and that Robb heeds his counsel. In what world is going behind your friend's back and conquering his home not betrayal? 

[The Arthur Smith]

Unlike many people here, i don't think Sansa completely forgive Theon. Yes, Sansa learned that Theon did not kill her brothers. But, it doesn't change the fact that Theon betrayed Robb, burned Winterfell, and killed most of the Starks household including Rodrik Cassel. Like Sansa said, if it weren't for Theon's betrayal, Winterfell would have been standing and her brothers wouldn't have to separate. 

As for Theon, i doubt he expect any forgiveness from Sansa or any of the northerners despite his redemption. Alfie Allen stated in his interview that Theon is still in his broken mentality and conflict for what he did. 

[episodenone]

2 hours ago, Maxxine said:

For purposes of the book and show, I think Theon can get some forgiveness from some of the Starks because he didn't actually kill Bran and Rickon and he wasn't the one who burned Winterfell.

Well -- who's left for him to say "Hey - come on -- I didn't REALLY kill Bran and Rick!"

And who would be left to say -- oh, wow - great point.

Then would that person not say "So, Theon, where are they then?"

See where I am going with this?

Theon is directly responsible for the fall of Winterfell in more ways than anyone else.  How does a pissant with obvious self-esteem issues well before the shit hits the fan take down the Legendary House of Stark?  Like only a piece of garbage could.  No quarter given - The Wall or Death

 

[jbent87]

2 hours ago, episodenone said:

Well -- who's left for him to say "Hey - come on -- I didn't REALLY kill Bran and Rick!"

And who would be left to say -- oh, wow - great point.

Then would that person not say "So, Theon, where are they then?"

See where I am going with this?

Theon is directly responsible for the fall of Winterfell in more ways than anyone else.  How does a pissant with obvious self-esteem issues well before the shit hits the fan take down the Legendary House of Stark?  Like only a piece of garbage could.  No quarter given - The Wall or Death

 

Except for the fact that past actions are just about close to irrelevant now, being that the dead are walking south for the only war of significance.. That said, warm bodies are in demand and maybe Theon can return home as the rightful heir to the Seastone Chair to usurp Euron and bring those warm bodies back to the mainland to fight said only war of significance. 

[A Ghost of Someone]

If Bran and Theon ever meet again, it will be for Bran to decide as he is the true King of the North and Lord of Winterfell, not Sansa, Jon or Rickon and certainly not Littlefinger.