Boltons, Freys and Karstarks

[A Ghost of Someone]

Ramsay has no loyal bodyguards or "Bastard's Boys" on the show, he has or had "Myranda" and Reek but he is just some psycho who undoubtedly everyone around him and in Winterfell knows.

[A Ghost of Someone]

It is reasonable for any tv show or movie to make sense of things when moving to scene to scene. Plots matter. Karstarks siding with the Boltons is understandable to me. Robb made the same mistake in the books I think. The Umbers potentially turning on the Starks. It is "iffy" at best. It is like no one on the wall or South of the wall was told about what happened at Hardhome and what is coming. Also, the North remembers?

[kissdbyfire]

52 minutes ago, A Ghost of Someone said:

Ramsay has no loyal bodyguards or "Bastard's Boys" on the show, he has or had "Myranda" and Reek but he is just some psycho who undoubtedly everyone around him and in Winterfell knows.

And the "bastards' boys" answer to Roose, not Ramsay.

[A Ghost of Someone]

1 minute ago, kissdbyfire said:

And the "bastards' boys" answer to Roose, not Ramsay.

Ramsay does not know that either, heh, heh but also, where are Roose's bodyguards?

[kissdbyfire]

2 minutes ago, A Ghost of Someone said:

Ramsay does not know that either, heh, heh but also, where are Roose's bodyguards?

No one, and weirder still is the idea that Roose would hug Ramsay. Roose's clearly suffered some brain damage at some point, 

[A Ghost of Someone]

Just now, kissdbyfire said:

No one, and weirder still is the idea that Roose would hug Ramsay. Roose's clearly suffered some brain damage at some point, 

I know, he has basically threatened Ramsay to his face more than once about the baby and then, when it is born, Roose at this point does not care about Sansa anymore. Also, there seems to be no concern about Littlefinger and the Vale, only the Lannisters and every Northern House that is not, Bolton, Karstark and Umber.

[Primalsplit]

Some things don't make sense to me. I think Ramsay stabbing Roose is still a bit odd. Not because Ramsay wouldn't do that, mind you. He certainly would. But could he even be allowed to do so? It's just strange a feudal society with at least 1500 years long history built upon family and succession (though in Westeros it seems they are stuck in medieval era for a much longer time) didn't think of a way to solve that problem. Just walking to your father and stabbing him in the heart, because you're his heir anyway.

Now don't get me wrong. We don't know where the show will go with this. And I think Roose, the calculating cold man who is the only one capable of uniting the north with his ruthless calculations, brought down by his own mad dog who will inevitably screw everything once he seized control; can be an interesting story arc. Hell, if the show writers make that Karstark guy stab Ramsay and claim the north I will even like the plot. But the execution of this whole thing really feels wrong. It feels lazy. It feels wrong... for Ramsay to just walk into Roose and stab him in the chest. Just like that, in the middle of a dining room. If we think of mad dog as Ramsay, and the dog whisperer as Roose; would you even let your dog to get into the couch to sit on your lap? "I am soo in control of this mad dog", "I am soo clever and calculating." It only fells flat when the mad dog turns his head bites you in the crotch.

This is not being brought by great ability and great pride. This is Kasparov spending weeks to prepare a strategy versus nimzo-indian defense only to be defeated by scholar's mate in the match. This is Barcelona beating Real Madrid and losing to a 3. league team. It makes no sense for any non-novice to commit such a mistake in their respective fields. This is simply not one of those mistakes you do because of pride. The execution of all of it is quite weak.

[Channel4s-JonSnow]

3 hours ago, kissdbyfire said:

No one, and weirder still is the idea that Roose would hug Ramsay. Roose's clearly suffered some brain damage at some point, 

Well except it was Ramsey that hugged Roose.

[kissdbyfire]

9 minutes ago, Channel4s-JonSnow said:

Well except it was Ramsey that hugged Roose.

It takes two to tango, and the same goes for hugs.

[Channel4s-JonSnow]

15 minutes ago, kissdbyfire said:

It takes two to tango, and the same goes for hugs.

Well he recieved the hug. Which was about the most he did.

But remember, Roose has been playing with Ramsey's need for love and attention from him for a long time, he often mixes cold words with a sort of warmth to keep Ramsey on a leash. Possibly he suspected he could keep doing it here. 

[TheCasualObserver]

7 hours ago, A Ghost of Someone said:

It is reasonable for any tv show or movie to make sense of things when moving to scene to scene. Plots matter. Karstarks siding with the Boltons is understandable to me. Robb made the same mistake in the books I think. The Umbers potentially turning on the Starks. It is "iffy" at best. It is like no one on the wall or South of the wall was told about what happened at Hardhome and what is coming. Also, the North remembers?

Karstarks siding with the Boltons plural makes sense, but Ramsay alone is a very different prospect. But there is also a question mark about whether or not they knew about any other surviving Starks, and if they hate the starks that much, why support the husband of one? Why would they hate and fear Jon Snow if he is neither a Stark nor a rival for the North (as far as they knew at that point?) As motivation it comes across as pretty cheap to me and also relies on yet another character being obsessed with revenge and a lack of interest in anything else.

But the Umbers betraying the starks is completely nuts, which is why I'm assuming that it's a ruse.

[Darkstream]

9 hours ago, Darksky said:

Because that's something that happens in real life. Why would a child fantasise about that?

exactlly, that's the whole point. 

[Ruhail]

Everyone loses braincells when Ramsay "the supervillain sue" is involved #itisknown

[Darkstream]

2 minutes ago, Ruhail said:

Everyone loses braincells when Ramsay "the supervillain sue" is involved #itisknown

That goes ten fold for D&D.

[A Ghost of Someone]

6 hours ago, TheCasualObserver said:

Karstarks siding with the Boltons plural makes sense, but Ramsay alone is a very different prospect. But there is also a question mark about whether or not they knew about any other surviving Starks, and if they hate the starks that much, why support the husband of one? Why would they hate and fear Jon Snow if he is neither a Stark nor a rival for the North (as far as they knew at that point?) As motivation it comes across as pretty cheap to me and also relies on yet another character being obsessed with revenge and a lack of interest in anything else.

But the Umbers betraying the starks is completely nuts, which is why I'm assuming that it's a ruse.

For the Karstarks, they lost their lord, Robb cut off his head so it is a "grey" area. However, them recommending Jon Snow's murder is pretty much a stretch. It almost cries of them playing the Boltons but this is the show and I am not used to everything making sense on it. Cheap is a good way to put it.

[Stangler]

The story has to set up this conflict where the Starks are the underdogs but eventually triumph. This is kind of the obvious outcome that everyone sees coming so the story has to have some twists and turns that are unexpected and interesting. It also means they have to pump up the Boltons to make them seem formidable. 

Everything else is just window dressing. The show writers can really do whatever they want as long as a character is not needed somewhere else. It all comes down to them deciding to tell a story about the north being loyal to the Starks and plotting against Ramsey or them telling a story about the time Littlefinger and the Eyrie saved the north from the Boltons. One story is way better than the other IMO. 

I think if they are going to use LF it should be in the Riverlands. 

[Stangler]

The story has to set up this conflict where the Starks are the underdogs but eventually triumph. This is kind of the obvious outcome that everyone sees coming so the story has to have some twists and turns that are unexpected and interesting. It also means they have to pump up the Boltons to make them seem formidable. 

Everything else is just window dressing. The show writers can really do whatever they want as long as a character is not needed somewhere else. It all comes down to them deciding to tell a story about the north being loyal to the Starks and plotting against Ramsey or them telling a story about the time Littlefinger and the Eyrie saved the north from the Boltons. One story is way better than the other IMO. 

I think if they are going to use LF it should be in the Riverlands.