Bloodraven Lord of the Light

[Cragen]

We know that Bloodraven communicate with people sending them visions via dreams and we know that he can interfere with visions in flames from Melisandre POV. So my conclusion is that visions through fire and greensight are based on same mechanism, while greensight is far more powerful(Or Bloodraven is far more powerful or weirwood net is more powerful tool then fire). So my thoughts are that Bloodraven manipulated Melisandre and some other red priests to get them in place where he want them to be. I not quite sure what his goals would be if this is case, but for sure that his plan would include Jon and Danny. Bran would be one who would continue his work in this case.

[StarkofWinterfell]

1 hour ago, Cragen said:

We know that Bloodraven communicate with people sending them visions via dreams and we know that he can interfere with visions in flames from Melisandre POV. So my conclusion is that visions through fire and greensight are based on same mechanism, while greensight is far more powerful(Or Bloodraven is far more powerful or weirwood net is more powerful tool then fire). So my thoughts are that Bloodraven manipulated Melisandre and some other red priests to get them in place where he want them to be. I not quite sure what his goals would be if this is case, but for sure that his plan would include Jon and Danny. Bran would be one who would continue his work in this case.

Bloodraven is everywhere.

He warged the boar that killed Robert and he warged Aerys to get him to go mad. He's been behind everything in the story. You're very correct.

[CJDTrismegistus]

I always thought that Bloodraven was communicating with the Ghost of High Heart as she mentions, when talking to The Brotherhood Without Banners, that -

"This place belongs to the old gods still ... they linger here as I do, shrunken and feeble but not yet dead."

That seemed to me to be a pretty accurate description of Bloodraven.  But tGoHH also states to Thoros that he won't see anything in his flames whilst on High Heart due to the Old Gods, so I doubt all of the visions in the flames are sent by BR, if any.

Also, when you first meet Beric Dondarrion, he's seated in a Weirwood throne in a very similar way to BR (looking very similar to BR!).  So I guess he could be communicating to Dondarrion through the root conduits rather than Thoros and the Fire?

Do we really know that he sent Melisandre a vision in her flames of himself and Bran?

Or was it just the Lord of Light (or a glass candle user etc.) that sent her visions of BR and Bran?

[Valens]

18 minutes ago, CJDTrismegistus said:

I always thought that Bloodraven was communicating with the Ghost of High Heart as she mentions, when talking to The Brotherhood Without Banners, that -

"This place belongs to the old gods still ... they linger here as I do, shrunken and feeble but not yet dead."

That seemed to me to be a pretty accurate description of Bloodraven.  But tGoHH also states to Thoros that he won't see anything in his flames whilst on High Heart due to the Old Gods, so I doubt all of the visions in the flames are sent by BR, if any.

Also, when you first meet Beric Dondarrion, he's seated in a Weirwood throne in a very similar way to BR (looking very similar to BR!).  So I guess he could be communicating to Dondarrion through the root conduits rather than Thoros and the Fire?

Do we really know that he sent Melisandre a vision in her flames of himself and Bran?

Or was it just the Lord of Light (or a glass candle user etc.) that sent her visions of BR and Bran?

Thats a very interesting theory. I always thought Beric had more to him than just meets the eye. And even that is not little, lol. One of my fav characters, which also my av signifies. Beric becoming the head of Brotherhood Without Banners is not accidental, nor is it only because he was the only knight and led that part of the Brotherhood against The Mountain. He also has that Messianic quality, obviously. He's almost like the Jesus of ASOIAF. What is interesting to note however is that he has also certain Satanic qualities: he rides a black horse, his epiteths are Lord of Lightning (not very Jesus-like, is it?) and Lord of Corpses (like a Necromancer) and his very home is called Blackhaven. It is also interesting that he was betrothed to a Dayne. Tho that is not so unusual, since Blackhaven is near Dorne. He also wears black, but that is likely because of his family's sigil. Purple lightning on a black field. But it does seem like he is meant to be this mysterious figure which had something to do with death, was close with death.

[Lost Melnibonean]

1 hour ago, Cragen said:

We know that Bloodraven communicate with people sending them visions via dreams and we know that he can interfere with visions in flames from Melisandre POV. So my conclusion is that visions through fire and greensight are based on same mechanism, while greensight is far more powerful(Or Bloodraven is far more powerful or weirwood net is more powerful tool then fire). So my thoughts are that Bloodraven manipulated Melisandre and some other red priests to get them in place where he want them to be. I not quite sure what his goals would be if this is case, but for sure that his plan would include Jon and Danny. Bran would be one who would continue his work in this case.

I don't believe that Bloodraven is manipulating everything. If Melisandre is too old to be his daughter, then she wasn't influenced by him before he went into the cave. And folks were apparently seeing stuff in the flames before Bloodraven existed, so he might be interfering now, so to speak, but some, if not all, of their visions must be inspired by some other power. Still I do believe The power of Beric and Catelyn comes from the Old Gods, not the Lord of Light, and Jaime will be next.

[Cragen]

38 minutes ago, CJDTrismegistus said:

I always thought that Bloodraven was communicating with the Ghost of High Heart as she mentions, when talking to The Brotherhood Without Banners, that -

"This place belongs to the old gods still ... they linger here as I do, shrunken and feeble but not yet dead."

That seemed to me to be a pretty accurate description of Bloodraven.  But tGoHH also states to Thoros that he won't see anything in his flames whilst on High Heart due to the Old Gods, so I doubt all of the visions in the flames are sent by BR, if any.

Also, when you first meet Beric Dondarrion, he's seated in a Weirwood throne in a very similar way to BR (looking very similar to BR!).  So I guess he could be communicating to Dondarrion through the root conduits rather than Thoros and the Fire?

Do we really know that he sent Melisandre a vision in her flames of himself and Bran?

Or was it just the Lord of Light (or a glass candle user etc.) that sent her visions of BR and Bran?

He didn't send Melisandre vision of him self and Bran he look at her from the flame and he shut down her glamour. My idea is that he showing Bran what he has done all those years.

[Cragen]

32 minutes ago, StarkofWinterfell said:

Bloodraven is everywhere.

He warged the boar that killed Robert and he warged Aerys to get him to go mad. He's been behind everything in the story. You're very correct.

I feel sarcasm here. Why would powerful greenseer like him, who watching world past, present and future, man who spend all his life ruling, spying, manipulating kingdom, want to influence thing. And yes, gods sending visions make more sense.

[CJDTrismegistus]

10 minutes ago, Cragen said:

He didn't send Melisandre vision of him self and Bran he look at her from the flame and he shut down her glamour. My idea is that he showing Bran what he has done all those years.

I think I need to read that bit again!  I don't remember her glamour being removed, just her bleeding from the nether-regions!

And I always thought that the vision she saw in the flames (treeman surrounded by a thousand red eyes and wolf-boy) was due to her searching rather than Broodraven sending.

[Cragen]

21 minutes ago, Lost Melnibonean said:

I don't believe that Bloodraven is manipulating everything. If Melisandre is too old to be his daughter, then she wasn't influenced by him before he went into the cave. And folks were apparently seeing stuff in the flames before Bloodraven existed, so he might be interfering now, so to speak, but some, if not all, of their visions must be inspired by some other power. Still I do believe The power of Beric and Catelyn comes from the Old Gods, not the Lord of Light, and Jaime will be next.

We also have example of dead man been reanimated by BR, Coldhand. It was always weird for me that BWB going to Ghost of High Heart for prophecies when they are Rhollorist.

[Cragen]

12 minutes ago, CJDTrismegistus said:

I think I need to read that bit again!  I don't remember her glamour being removed, just her bleeding from the nether-regions!

And I always thought that the vision she saw in the flames (treeman surrounded by a thousand red eyes and wolf-boy) was due to her searching rather than Broodraven sending.

She, if remember correctly, tell "He can see me"

[Cragen]

34 minutes ago, Lost Melnibonean said:

I don't believe that Bloodraven is manipulating everything. If Melisandre is too old to be his daughter, then she wasn't influenced by him before he went into the cave. And folks were apparently seeing stuff in the flames before Bloodraven existed, so he might be interfering now, so to speak, but some, if not all, of their visions must be inspired by some other power.

I don't think that BR is cause of vision in the flames, I'm saying that it's have same mechanic as greensight that alowe BR to interfere with visions. He is long enough in cave to influence things before she came to Dragonstone

[CJDTrismegistus]

48 minutes ago, Valens said:

Thats a very interesting theory. I always thought Beric had more to him than just meets the eye. And even that is not little, lol. One of my fav characters, which also my av signifies. Beric becoming the head of Brotherhood Without Banners is not accidental, nor is it only because he was the only knight and led that part of the Brotherhood against The Mountain. He also has that Messianic quality, obviously. He's almost like the Jesus of ASOIAF. What is interesting to note however is that he has also certain Satanic qualities: he rides a black horse, his epiteths are Lord of Lightning (not very Jesus-like, is it?) and Lord of Corpses (like a Necromancer) and his very home is called Blackhaven. It is also interesting that he was betrothed to a Dayne. Tho that is not so unusual, since Blackhaven is near Dorne. He also wears black, but that is likely because of his family's sigil. Purple lightning on a black field. But it does seem like he is meant to be this mysterious figure which had something to do with death, was close with death.

There's lots of Satanic affiliations with this story (Lightbringer = bringer of dawn, the morning star, Lucifer).  GRRM is an Atheist, isn't he? 

I also remember when re-reading that scene under the hill that it was almost as if Dondarrion was taking a perverse pleasure in sitting in the Greenseer chair.  As if the CotF were enemies of the LoL and he was revelling in their downfall.  As I'm at work at the moment and don't have the book to hand, I can't pin point the part of the text that made me feel that way, I just remember feeling it.

But then why would he seek the help of the GoHH?

[Daendrew]

Previously I have written about how I think Bloodraven is R'hllor and Jamie is the Lord of Light. 

They are two different people.

https://endgameofthrones.com/2015/06/08/rhilor-and-the-lord-of-light-revealed/ 

[Valens]

1 hour ago, CJDTrismegistus said:

There's lots of Satanic affiliations with this story (Lightbringer = bringer of dawn, the morning star, Lucifer).  GRRM is an Atheist, isn't he? 

I also remember when re-reading that scene under the hill that it was almost as if Dondarrion was taking a perverse pleasure in sitting in the Greenseer chair.  As if the CotF were enemies of the LoL and he was revelling in their downfall.  As I'm at work at the moment and don't have the book to hand, I can't pin point the part of the text that made me feel that way, I just remember feeling it.

But then why would he seek the help of the GoHH?

I'd think so. He def isn't the Catholic puritan like Tolkien was. And because he lets the bad ones win often, it also is a sign of him being the realist, as opposed to believer in miracles. Well, I didn't know Lucifer was connected to the morning star...is he? Do tell!

[CJDTrismegistus]

26 minutes ago, Valens said:

I'd think so. He def isn't the Catholic puritan like Tolkien was. And because he lets the bad ones win often, it also is a sign of him being the realist, as opposed to believer in miracles. Well, I didn't know Lucifer was connected to the morning star...is he? Do tell!

It's just that sometimes Americans have no distinction between an Atheist and Satanist!

Isaiah 14:12 - "How you have fallen from heaven, O morning star, son of the dawn! You have been cast down to the earth, you who once laid low the nations!”  Referring the the fallen Angel, Lucifer.

Although in Revelation 22:16 - "'I, Jesus did send my messenger to testify to you these things concerning the assemblies; I am the root and the offspring of David, the bright and morning star!"  Referring to Jesus as the morning star.

Maybe it's a title given to the current champion of the Christian God......a bit like the sword of the morning!  The 1st one (Satan) went bad!

[CJDTrismegistus]

2 hours ago, Lost Melnibonean said:

I don't believe that Bloodraven is manipulating everything. If Melisandre is too old to be his daughter, then she wasn't influenced by him before he went into the cave. And folks were apparently seeing stuff in the flames before Bloodraven existed, so he might be interfering now, so to speak, but some, if not all, of their visions must be inspired by some other power. Still I do believe The power of Beric and Catelyn comes from the Old Gods, not the Lord of Light, and Jaime will be next.

Yes, I really like this idea.  I think it's backed up nicely by the BwB HQ in a CotF cave and the heavy use of trees in Lady Stoneheart's executions.  Especially after the Whiteharbour chapters that detail executions and subsequent hanging of intestines in Weirwoods as tributes to the Old Gods.