In the Shadow of the Status Quo--Fantasy literature and conservativism

[C.T. Phipps]

3 hours ago, Nolendil said:

I also read that book for free about ten years ago, and even back then I found it smug and self-satisfied.

The first book was a celebration of blue-collar unionist America, which I can barely remember being a thing in RL politics BUT it was also dripping with jingoism and (is there an American equivalent of Mansplaining? USplaining?). However, I enjoyed the premise enough to continue the series and it's it to Eric Flint's credit that every subsequent book makes fun of the first book.

Pretty much the primary plot of the books now are the fact the Americans are actually MODERATES now as the German peasantry have taken their democratic socialist ideals to levels the Grantville folk are uncomfortable with (and demonstrably wrong on as they're more willing to compromise with Gustavus Adolphus because he's an ally despite being a military dictator as well as invade other nations--criticizing RL US foreign policy). Most of the rest of Europe has caught up with 19th century technology and are already making weird steampunk stuff the Grantvillers can't match because it's going in directions different from the technology they remember like fluidic computers. I also give credit for the book which ends in the Jews of Europe defending themselves against the plan to slaughter all of the ones in the New German State.

So kudos to EF for being willing to correct himself due to fan criticism (which he's admitted was the impetuous).

[Darth Richard II]

I can't comment on Eric Flint as an author but he had some great Hugo related blog posts a while back, so he's definitely not the, uh, typical Baen author.

[C.T. Phipps]

6 hours ago, Werthead said:

And their other biggest seller is Lois McMaster Bujold, who is ultra-progressive and left-leaning.

OTOH, it's stuff that sells and by selling it, Jim Baen was proving that the pursuit of money trumps that of ideology, thus proving the superiority of the capitalist viewpoint. Or something.

Left, Right, whatever sells is pretty much Baen's mantra.

[Darth Richard II]

I thought Baen's mantra was "Find the worst cover art you can then add a spaceship!"

[Lyanna Stark]

On 17/09/2016 at 6:10 AM, Roose Boltons Pet Leech said:

Not never. Queen Wealhþēow is herself a successful example of a "peace weaver." I think the message is more that you shouldn't rely on such marriages. 

Indeed. Case in point is how Danish and Swedish royalty intermarried quite a few times, yet it did not prevent warfare.

 

[Lyanna Stark]

On 16/09/2016 at 4:44 PM, TrackerNeil said:

I imagine many other lords had a very clear idea that Tywin would never let Tyrion inherit Casterly Rock--and, if so, they were right to suspect so. 

Sorry for the double post, the multi-quote/editing function is not really working at all.

In any case, it was fairly apparent in the Re-reading Tyrion group effort a while ago that Tywin used this "You will never get Casterly Rock" / "Lolly is the only one anyone would consider marrying to you" as a means of putting pressure on Tyrion. After all, Tywin's main concern was the Lannister line, and even though he despised Tyrion and saw him as a last chance, it is clear he still wants him to toe the line. Which in the case of Tywin arguing with Tyrion is that Tyrion should marry Sansa, create some little Lannisters and by doing so, a strong claim to the North. Tywin is expanding his empire, and by marrying Cersei to Willas, he would position himself even better. Whether or not Tyrion gets Casterly Rock....well, as someone else pointed out, if he doesn't, he would still get a lot of other stuff. And Tywin will not live forever, so anyone willing to take a bit of a gamble could definitely bet on Tyrion. After all, Jaime is in the Kingsguard and Cersei would have, as long as Tywin had lived, married a Tyrell, or even an Ironborn. The fact that he is a dwarf is certainly not in his favour, but considering there are lords like Frey out there, it's highly unlikely nobody would have stepped forward and offered Tywin their daughters for Tyrion.

Instead, we can strongly infer that Tywin is hugely picky. We know he offered Tyrion to the Martells for Elia and to the Tullys for Lysa (when Hoster Tully had most likely expected it to be Jaime, as he sat Jaime next to Lysa at the banquet). Both of those are basically "Tier 1" marriages, so this is far more about Tywin being extremely picky than him not getting any offers.

Whether or not it is generally known that Tyrion will not inherit, it doesn't seem to be, since Tywin only clarifies it to Tyrion in ASOS himself, and he does so in relative privacy. Sure, Varys would have picked up on it, but apart from that, it is not generally known. At least nobody in the novels ever comment on it, and it would be an extremely interesting fact to gossip about, so someone ought to comment on it. As nobody does, we can safely assume it is not generally known.

Somehow, in the context of marriage-as-tool-for-reactionary thinking (and quite often, people excuse the princess-as-prize-for-the-hero or arranged marriages in Epic Fantasy, I think, as someone *fitting*, or not in the least strange), I find the following quote from Angela Carter very appropriate.

Quote

What is marriage but prostitution to one man instead of many?

 

[TrackerNeil]

7 hours ago, Lyanna Stark said:

Instead, we can strongly infer that Tywin is hugely picky. We know he offered Tyrion to the Martells for Elia and to the Tullys for Lysa (when Hoster Tully had most likely expected it to be Jaime, as he sat Jaime next to Lysa at the banquet). Both of those are basically "Tier 1" marriages, so this is far more about Tywin being extremely picky than him not getting any offers.

I think this is true, and Tywin himself admits as much when he's trying to browbeat Tyrion into marrying Sansa. He even mentions that Lady Tanda has offered Lollys, proving that, yes, if Tywin scraped the bottom of the barrel, he'd find some bride for his younger son. However, I suspect that Tanda wouldn't be expecting Lollys to then become Lady of Casterly Rock. 

[SeanF]

20 hours ago, Lyanna Stark said:

 

Instead, we can strongly infer that Tywin is hugely picky. We know he offered Tyrion to the Martells for Elia and to the Tullys for Lysa (when Hoster Tully had most likely expected it to be Jaime, as he sat Jaime next to Lysa at the banquet). Both of those are basically "Tier 1" marriages, so this is far more about Tywin being extremely picky than him not getting any offers.

 

 

 

Sure, a middle-ranking lord would have considered Tyrion a great catch, even without Casterly Rock. 

[The Marquis de Leech]

Finally got around to writing the third instalment of my rebuttal:

https://phuulishfellow.wordpress.com/2016/10/15/of-j-r-r-tolkien-and-status-quos-part-iii/

That's well over 3000 words of commentary on an introductory quote! 

[The Marquis de Leech]

Oh, and a related essay on Queer characters in fantasy:

https://phuulishfellow.wordpress.com/2016/10/16/thoughts-on-queer-characters-in-fantasy/