Morgana Lannister Posted October 31, 2016 Share Posted October 31, 2016 19 hours ago, Golden Eyes said: got to go now but I wanted to say that Arya dn Tyrion share a lot in common including they were both the black sheep of their families and this will help them bond and rule together under Danerys. I agree and they will team up somehow just not sure how exactly, given recent show season 7 spoilers my bet is at Winterfell or even the Wall with Jon involved there too :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morgana Lannister Posted October 31, 2016 Share Posted October 31, 2016 45 minutes ago, Makk said: I don't know if the story will go long enough for a economic revolution after the civil war(s) and threats from north of the wall. For what it is worth I think Tyrion could be the one that betrays Daenerys for love...of Jaime. Just a guess though, very hard to see where GRRM is going long term. This idea has been spotted before and something in that direction may well happen but I think with only two books left the plot to me is pointing towards "sleeping with the enemy" if need be, even Lannister/Baratheon whatever Targaryen to fight WWs and then reconstruction. I definitely put my money on necessary alliances, not a completely fair world and not one that we would recognise in our own society but something fairer than it was or else, as I said before, the series turns into a complex set of anecdotal vignettes from various characters; something will unite most players and something good but with a lot of grey and heavy casualties has to be end game IMHO. I agree with you though that okay even if all our favourites rule houses and what not the small folk are not going to suddenly be equal to Lords and Kings/Queens. As for Jaime I am certain him and Tyrion will meet again but I think there will be a "forgiveness moment"; there might well be a rift between Dany and Tyrion because of Jaime but I don't believe they can not join forces in order to survive so they will have to get over it lol. Tyrion will probably persuade her to keep Jaime alive instead of betraying her; he is a pragmatic guy but Jaime will die either way on a different story-line. Incidentally, I believe, in the books the betrayal "by blood" is Illyrio maybe even Varys connected to Aegon... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woman of War Posted October 31, 2016 Share Posted October 31, 2016 5 hours ago, Morgana Lannister said: Well we all have personal preferences re characters and pairings; he certainly won't force her to do anything but well he is George's favourite character so I don't think the author views him in the same way you do however Sansa/Sandor is way more popular with the fans. At this point in the story I don't think her dying would aid the plot so I think she is pretty safe until the end. Personally I prefer Sandor's interaction with Arya rather than Sansa but hey as I said we all have preferences... I agree with you though I believe that the Sansa/Sandor shipping is mostly popular in parts of these forums here and in some niches of the web. Most readers and especially most show viewers might not give much thought to this ship. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morgana Lannister Posted October 31, 2016 Share Posted October 31, 2016 16 minutes ago, Woman of War said: I agree with you though I believe that the Sansa/Sandor shipping is mostly popular in parts of these forums here and in some niches of the web. Readers and especially show viewers might not give much thought to this ship. Well, I certainly believe that our own personalities often dictate our likes and dislikes with characters and pairings and George is great at making most mainly grey but Tyrion is perhaps one the readership is more divided about lol but to me, the fact that he is the author's favorite character means that with flaws and all the author did not want to make him some stupid villain; villain he might be, an idiot he ain't lol (this was not in response so much to your post but in agreement and in response to the poster who keeps calling him idiot lol) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rondo Posted November 1, 2016 Share Posted November 1, 2016 Tyrion will be the man behind the curtain. The one running the show. Which is what the Hand of the Queen actually does. Daenerys will be the ruler of Westeros and perhaps also Essos. Tyrion will do the actual day to day administrative task leaving the big picture for Daenerys. Many people would like to believe the people of Westeros will accept a dwarf as their king. I think that might be stretching things a little too far. Do not forget, Tyrion is prone to drinking and other self-destructive behavior. He is also a kinslayer. Those are very tough hurdles to overcome. But if say Daenerys takes the throne with Tyrion as her Hand of the Queen, it could work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRANDON GREYSTARK Posted November 1, 2016 Share Posted November 1, 2016 Before you can have a revolution there must be an evolution . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morgana Lannister Posted November 3, 2016 Share Posted November 3, 2016 On 10/29/2016 at 7:45 PM, Horse of Kent said: Any sweeping revolution at the end will come across as totally anachronistic. I wouldn't be surprised to see some progress that hints of a better future at the end, when society is rebuilt in the aftermath of the war - but I doubt GRRM would go too far down that route. As for the leaders - I don't think either Tyrion or Sansa would be suited, more likely Bran or Arya; but guessing at the ending beyond broad brushstrokes seems futile. I have to agree with the fact that yes total democratic rule would just not sit right in this world and would feel anachronistic. However, I think Sansa and Tyrion are likely to survive as main players but certainly with a team whether they are the figure heads or someone else is/are I can't possibly guess but there will definitely be a strong team of major players. If the spoiler pics from the show season 7 are anything to go by, at least in the show, we can expect to see Jon, Davos, Tyrion and Dany collaborating and I think we have a number of talented players that could make a very strong Small Council but there have to be heavy casualties too so undoubtedly some of these players won't make it. I could certainly see Arya as Head of Intelligence, Tyrion as Hand and so on probably Jon, if he makes it as King or Queen's Consort, same goes for Dany or maybe they both die and we get Davos as Sansa's or Tyrion's Hand who knows but my bet is on a very strong Council with a number of players who appear to have been "in training" for it whether voluntarily or not. Bran would be spectacularly important but a bit remove from mundane ruling, more of a Merlin style character "me thinks"... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morgana Lannister Posted November 3, 2016 Share Posted November 3, 2016 On 11/1/2016 at 0:37 AM, Tour De Force said: Tyrion will be the man behind the curtain. The one running the show. Which is what the Hand of the Queen actually does. Daenerys will be the ruler of Westeros and perhaps also Essos. Tyrion will do the actual day to day administrative task leaving the big picture for Daenerys. Many people would like to believe the people of Westeros will accept a dwarf as their king. I think that might be stretching things a little too far. Do not forget, Tyrion is prone to drinking and other self-destructive behavior. He is also a kinslayer. Those are very tough hurdles to overcome. But if say Daenerys takes the throne with Tyrion as her Hand of the Queen, it could work. I would be totally happy with that but I think the possibilities are still open; hell yes, Tyrion as he is at present has way too many vulnerabilities, the main one being that if someone threatens someone he loves he loses the plot and if he came to really fall for Sansa (and I don't doubt she will end up super powerful) he could become a little unhinged (just as he did when trying to protect Shae). However, despite the fact that he is a very heavy drinker, perhaps even an alcoholic the guy is very competent. This although not usually the norm with people who drink this much is not totally unheard of in real life lol even some drug users, say, if they keep it in check have been known to be great at stock markets and what not lol. Not that I am advocating for drink and drugs lol but yes he is still capable. Now, I firmly believe that, although he is likely to always enjoy a drink, if his life starts going right at some point (say had a kid or something and was loved) he would be inclined to drink in a more social manner and not just to get through the day. He has been very unfairly treated since he was born and he feels very unloved and that is probably why I have this huge soft spot for this character. He presents to the world a super confident and funny facade and I think that is a great compliment to George because he is very real, deep down he is very hurt. As for public perception you could be right and certainly I can recall one politician in the UK that got fired for drinking too much although his performance was record breaking in the positive for his party lol but our society in a way is a little more puritanical than theirs in some aspects. Nobody gave a damn, for instance about the fact that Robert bedded any pretty lass he came across lol (which we know isn't the case in the UK or US, say) however I have to agree with the dwarf thing; a bit like the Dothraki they appear to follow strength over wits, and the fact that Varys and LF are "the men in grey suits" so to speak backs you up. However if he gets to ride a dragon or do something very heroic, perception might change. Whoever wins will win by conquest but the peace process requires a very strong and suitably skilled Council and that is how I keep saying I see this going. To me it all depends on whether Dany and Jon make it; if they do yeah see him as Hand; if they don't I see him with Sansa pretty much a la Ferdinand and Isabella of Spain in XV century but without their religious fanaticism lol. She is more likely to end up monarch than him though. His only claim provided his siblings are dead is Casterly Rock - depending on how it pans out she could even end up with Winterfell, the Vale of Arryn (if she either married Robin or he made her his successor or both him and Harry died after she married Harry - personally I foresee that the whole point of this story line is to give Sansa the Vale) and the Riverlands (Riverlands a bit far fetched but depending on casualties...) and the Rock by marriage, say... that in itself would have bought her most of the raffle tickets. There are also the Wildlings; if Jon dies and names her heir they would be more inclined to back her than anyone else and it seems pretty apparent that Jon and Tyrion are joining forces so wow even if by democratic modern election, if Dany and Jon are gone, she would win it! (provided she has been a relatively competent league Lady), However, I agree at this stage hard to predict but yes even if Tyrion turned out figure head (or half of one lol), he will have a huge and very capable team with him. My prediction is also that Gendry will contribute something big re Valeryian steel knowledge in the war effort and that him and Arya will get the Stormlands, so to me at least if Jon and Dany die, Sansa gets it all Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
principenoprometido Posted November 3, 2016 Share Posted November 3, 2016 Just now, Morgana Lannister said: Yo sería totalmente feliz con eso, pero creo que las posibilidades siguen abiertas; claro que sí, Tyrion como él es en la actualidad tiene demasiadas vulnerabilidades, la principal es que si alguien amenaza a alguien que ama pierde la trama y si llegaba a caer realmente para Sansa (y no dudo que va a terminar súper poderoso) que podría llegar a ser un poco desquiciada (tal como lo hizo cuando se trata de proteger a Shae). Sin embargo, a pesar del hecho de que él es un bebedor muy pesado, tal vez incluso un alcohólico que el tipo es muy competente. Esto aunque no suele ser la norma con las personas que beben esta cantidad no es totalmente desconocida en la vida real lol incluso algunos usuarios de drogas, por ejemplo, si se mantienen bajo control han sido conocidos por ser grandes en los mercados de valores y lo que no lol. No es que yo estoy abogando por la bebida y las drogas lol pero sí que todavía es capaz. Ahora, yo creo firmemente que, a pesar de que es probable que disfrute siempre de una bebida, si su vida comienza a ir a la derecha en algún momento (digamos tenido un niño o algo y era amado) que se inclina a beber de una manera más social y no sólo para pasar el día. Se le ha tratado muy injustamente desde que nació y se siente muy amado y que es, probablemente, por qué tengo este gran debilidad por este personaje. Se presenta al mundo una fachada muy seguro y divertido y creo que es un gran elogio a George porque él es muy real, en el fondo está muy herida. En cuanto a la percepción del público que podría estar en lo cierto y sin duda puede recordar a un político en el Reino Unido que fue despedido por beber demasiado, aunque su actuación fue récord en el positivo para su partido lol pero nuestra sociedad de una manera un poco más puritana de de ellos en algunos aspectos. Nadie le importaba, por ejemplo, por el hecho de que Robert camas cualquiera bonita muchacha se encontró con lol (que sabemos no es el caso en el Reino Unido o Estados Unidos, por ejemplo) sin embargo tengo que estar de acuerdo con lo enana; un poco como el dothraki que parecen seguir fuerza con el ingenio, y el hecho de que Varys y LF son "los hombres de traje gris" por así decirlo espalda para arriba. Sin embargo, si se pone a montar un dragón o hacer algo muy heroica, la percepción puede cambiar. El que gane va a ganar por la conquista, pero el proceso de paz requiere un Consejo muy fuerte y especializado conveniente y así es como sigo diciendo que veo esta en marcha. Para mí, todo depende de si Dany y Jon lo hacen; si sí lo ven como la mano; si no lo hacen lo veo con Sansa más o menos al estilo de Fernando e Isabel de España en el siglo XV, pero sin su fanatismo religioso lol. Ella es más probable que termine monarca que él sin embargo. Su única reclamación proporciona a sus hermanos están muertos es Casterly Rock - dependiendo de cómo se filtra hacia fuera de que pudiera terminar con Invernalia, el Valle de Arryn (si bien casada Robin o le hicieron a su sucesor o ambos él y Harry murió después de que ella casado Harry - personalmente prever que el punto central de este argumento es dar el Sansa Vale) y las Tierras de los Ríos (RIVERLANDS un poco exagerado, pero en función de las bajas ...) y la roca por el matrimonio, por ejemplo ... que en sí habría comprado su mayor parte de los boletos de la rifa. También existen los salvajes; si Jon muere y nombra a su heredero que estaría más inclinado hacia atrás ella que cualquier otra persona y parece bastante evidente que Jon y Tyrion se están uniendo fuerzas tan wow incluso si por elección moderna democrática, si Dany y Jon se han ido, que lo ganaría ! (A condición de que ella ha sido una liga relativamente competente Señora), Sin embargo, estoy de acuerdo en esta etapa difícil de predecir, pero sí, incluso si Tyrion resultó figura decorativa (o la mitad de un lol), tendrá un equipo enorme y muy capaz con él . Mi predicción es que también contribuirá Gendry algo grande re conocimiento de acero Valeryian en el esfuerzo de guerra y que él y Arya obtendrá los Stormlands, por lo que a mí por lo menos si Jon y Dany mueren, Sansa se queda con todo because it continues to insist on sansa / tyrion? she does not like the dwarf idiot I do not think that ends the end, you're a fanboy of that ridiculous couple. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morgana Lannister Posted November 3, 2016 Share Posted November 3, 2016 1 hour ago, principenoprometido said: because it continues to insist on sansa / tyrion? she does not like the dwarf idiot I do not think that ends the end, you're a fanboy of that ridiculous couple. hola, veo que has traducido mi "post" yo hablo espanol si quieres hablar conmigo por mensaje, por ejemplo el hecho de que estemos en descacuerdo para mi no importa. Para mi los forums estan para debatir... Si lo admito totalmente! El es mi personaje favorito pero si tiene positivo y negativo, ella tambien pero yo interpreto su noche de bodas diferentemente; para mi fue un preludio de que ella en algun momento va ha cambiar de idea, cuando dijo "y si yo nunca quiero..." Simplemente por curiosidad, por que te disgusta Tyrion tanto? Tu opinion es perfectamente valida sea lo que fuere por supuesto y yo se que hay un monton de gente que piensan asi pero curiosidad, un saludo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
principenoprometido Posted November 3, 2016 Share Posted November 3, 2016 Just now, Morgana Lannister said: Hola, que veo tiene mi traducido "post" Yo Hablo español Si Quieres Hablar conmigo por Mensaje, por example El Hecho de Que Estemos en descacuerdo para mi no importa. Para mi los foros estan para debatir ... Si Lo admito Totalmente! El es mi personaje favorito de Pero si Tiene positivo y negativo, ella tambien Pero yo interpreto su Nocha de bodas diferentemente; para mi Fue Un preludio De que ella en algun Momento va ha change la idea, CUANDO DIJO "Y si yo quiero ... Nunca" Simplemente por curiosidad, Por Que Te disgusta Tyrion del tanto? Tu opinion es valida Perfectamente A que sea lo fuere por Supuesto y yo se que Hay Un monton de gente Que Piensan asi Pero curiosidad, un saludo I do not like tyrion because he's an idiot dwarf who always wins the only thing he knows how to do is tell silly jokes, wedding scene for me was not a prelude to anything she just does not like the dwarf and point, if it does not end with sandor u Other than the idiot dwarf would rather die than his wolf beheaded by order of cersei. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morgana Lannister Posted November 3, 2016 Share Posted November 3, 2016 1 hour ago, principenoprometido said: I do not like tyrion because it's an idiot dwarf who always wins the only thing he knows how to do is tell silly jokes, wedding scene for me was not a prelude to anything she just does not like the dwarf and point if it does not end with sandor or another Who is not the idiot dwarf would rather die than his wolf beheaded by order of cersei. I have to totally disagree here, he is capable of a lot more than telling jokes. In fact even people who strongly dislike him (both in readership and story) agree he is super intelligent. He might sometimes use "questionable" methods but they all do as they live in a very brutal society (Blackwater for instance). As for Sansa only George and well probably D & D know at this moment in time who she will end up with (if anyone) lol and even George could change his mind but bear in mind that this character is George's favourite by his own admission... I like Sandor but I see this story as more of a political epic and cannot see the plot point in them together (San/San) but that paring is a lot more popular than the one I prefer and I respect that. Now, Tyrion had nothing to do with Lady being put down; in fact he was leagues away from where it happened and he certainly doesn't like Cersei much either lol. Sansa was a bit of an idiot there but she was young and believed herself in love with Joffrey and one thing I think George does well is present characters with flaws and the fact that there has to be a learning curve and she is learning. As for Tyrion always winning, well, to me that is because he is clever and cunning and sometimes lucky granted. However, we have seen other characters pretty much "on top" as for now... because of similar skills but arguably less morals, like LF and Varys (both very complex too). Now to me the only a bit two dimensional characters in the series so far have been Joffrey and Ramsay everyone else I believe is very complex. Honestly, would you swap your life for his? he might have been brought up in a super rich and powerful family but he has been relatively decent (until he temporarily lost the plot i.e. killing Shae and his father by hey he was pushed) to all that show any sort of friendship or love for him; the guy has had it hard. Unappreciated, ridiculed all his life, blamed for the death of his mother when he just came into the world lol and to top it all sentenced to death primarily by his own father for a murder they both knew he hadn't committed... I accept that we cannot always agree on things and this is certainly not personal against you in any way but I have tried to answer what you said best I could. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.