Macgregor of the North Posted January 11, 2017 Author Share Posted January 11, 2017 12 hours ago, Crazy Cat Lady in Training said: Well, the World Book helps put things in context but doesn't do much for the timeline. I still say that Valyrian steel is too easy an answer. Dawn and House Dayne, oh yes. You have to wonder what that oily black naphtha has to do with it, if as I suspect Dawn is of meteoric origin. There is a variant in the Arthurian legends that the Holy Grail is an emerald that fell from Lucifer's crown when he fell from heaven. Dawn always reminded me of that story. The simple answer is: the Others haven't found what they're looking for. The original Ice is probably long gone, unless it's buried with the NK (at Winterfell, how's that for a tale from the crypt?) or another Stark. I still see what your saying but I'm talking about the possibility it is not even what people would even class as "Valyrian Steel". The Dragons were around before Valyria, in Asshai and elsewhere (in my sincere opinion) so all I think is needed is that a blade is made accessible with the only important ingredient, the forging in Dragonflame. It need not be Valyrian really at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ice Queen Posted January 11, 2017 Share Posted January 11, 2017 5 hours ago, Macgregor of the North said: I still see what your saying but I'm talking about the possibility it is not even what people would even class as "Valyrian Steel". The Dragons were around before Valyria, in Asshai and elsewhere (in my sincere opinion) so all I think is needed is that a blade is made accessible with the only important ingredient, the forging in Dragonflame. It need not be Valyrian really at all. Okay, I'm with you on that one, then. Definite possibility! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Macgregor of the North Posted January 11, 2017 Author Share Posted January 11, 2017 11 minutes ago, Crazy Cat Lady in Training said: Okay, I'm with you on that one, then. Definite possibility! It helps if we throw the idea out the window also that stuff like the Long Night happened thousands of years before weapons of steel were even thought of. Everything that we are led to believe was thousands of years apart is infact a good deal closer, in my opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lady Fishbiscuit Posted January 12, 2017 Share Posted January 12, 2017 Interesting topic MOTN! The prologue is fascinating. I remember thinking "WTF am I reading?!" when I first read it, and then with hindsight and re-reads it has become more and more fascinating and significant. We're all in total agreement that Waymar Royce looks like Jon Snow and ergo has 'The Stark Look' (as Craster tells us about Jon). I'm inclined to think the Others are looking out for a Stark, more specifically a Stark from the NW. If Benjen also had this look (blue eyes aside), and was ranging beyond the wall, could this be a foreshadowing of Benjen's fate? (Oh god, I hope not!). TV Spoiler... Spoiler Maybe he is killed in the same way as Waymar but it will then partly play out like the TV show in terms of him being rescued / resurrected by the CoTF who are also looking out for a Stark. In the book, Benjen obviously won't actually be Coldhands, he'll just have been resurrected in the same way). It's interesting that, in contrast to the attack on Waymar, The attack at the Fist is using wights, but maybe this is to make up the numbers against a greater number of foes/prey if the Others are not there in great numbers (yet). Are they happy to leave the slaughter of lesser beings to the wights but want to have killing of a Stark to themselves? There's power in Kings' blood, we're told, and the Starks are/were the Kings of Winter. Old Nan tells us that "they hated iron and fire and the touch of the sun, and every creature with hot blood in its veins". She doesn't mention they hated the NW specifically, although it stands to reason they would! Of course, she is referring to the first time they came, so the NW might not get a mention if they didn't formally exist until after the Others came for the first time. (I love to shoehorn in an Old Nan mention!) Re: Crasters sons, I totally agree that they just sacrifice them for their blood or their life force, rather than turning them into Others and raising them from ice babies to ice adults. Possible consideration... is it possible that Craster's sons have First-Men skinchanger genes which allows their soul/life force to be transferred from the babies into these ice-bodies held together by spells? GRRM has told us the Others are not human, but neither is Orells eagle, or Summer, or Bloodraven's Weirwood, even with a human soul inside them. I don't really have much to back this up, but it's fun to speculate! Re: The Daynes... yes please!! I love looking into what they were/are/could be! I'll be gutted if they have no real relevance in the final books. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Macgregor of the North Posted January 12, 2017 Author Share Posted January 12, 2017 Hey @Lady Fishbiscuit. Quote I'm inclined to think the Others are looking out for a Stark, more specifically a Stark from the NW. Yeah I could definitely see the Others being intelligent enough to understand bloodline and determine whether they think a certain human is of that bloodline. With the Waymar/Jon description it certainly seems GRRM has left us a clue to think along the lines of them recognising a certain person due to features. Ive no doubt they are always on the lookout to diminish the Watch and will move on its leader if they get the chance, which I think they thought they were possibly doing when they set the trap for Waymar. Quote If Benjen also had this look (blue eyes aside), and was ranging beyond the wall, could this be a foreshadowing of Benjen's fate? (Oh god, I hope not!). Ben is long legged, gaunt. I suppose gaunt could be loosely equated to slender maybe. Has he met the same fate as Waymar? I'm not sure. I still think he placed the cache and the Cloak near the fist to be found but after that I'm just still not sure what happened to him but I have a feeling he is dead. Mormonts Raven which I do believe is Bloodraven has over half convinced me. (I don't think BR is everywhere all the time but I do think he communicates through the Raven, a lot.) ACOK JON IV: "If Ben Stark is alive and free, he will come to us, I have no doubt." "Yes," said Jon, "but . . . what if . . ." ". . . he's dead?" Mormont asked, not unkindly. Jon nodded, reluctantly. "Dead," the raven said. "Dead. Dead." Whether he comes back again in some sort of still alive, changed state ill wait and see, but I think it may well be more likely that Bran will see him in the past praying to a Weirwood, in danger trying to stash the Cloak in a safe spot and that's how he may appear again on page. Quote It's interesting that, in contrast to the attack on Waymar, The attack at the Fist is using wights, but maybe this is to make up the numbers against a greater number of foes/prey if the Others are not there in great numbers (yet). Are they happy to leave the slaughter of lesser beings to the wights but want to have killing of a Stark to themselves? There's power in Kings' blood, we're told, and the Starks are/were the Kings of Winter. I think your right in that the Wights were sent to the fist as a numbers thing as the Watch had decent numbers so the Wights were sent in to diminish them while the Others lurked the perimeters. I think in the Prologue it was to show us how serious the Others themselves took the threat of Waymar (or who they thought he was) and his sword. They couldn't trust that test to clumsy Wights I don't think. Quote She doesn't mention they hated the NW specifically, although it stands to reason they would! Of course, she is referring to the first time they came, so the NW might not get a mention if they didn't formally exist until after the Others came for the first time. (I love to shoehorn in an Old Nan mention!) Mention Old Nan anytime it takes your fancy! Don't mind Old Nan chat. Yeah it stands to reason they would and their actions make it undeniable with the chilling way they kill Waymar, the attack at the Fist, and also the Jafer and Othor mission. They want to finish the Watch it seems. Quote Re: Crasters sons, I totally agree that they just sacrifice them for their blood or their life force, rather than turning them into Others and raising them from ice babies to ice adults. Possible consideration... is it possible that Craster's sons have First-Men skinchanger genes which allows their soul/life force to be transferred from the babies into these ice-bodies held together by spells? GRRM has told us the Others are not human, but neither is Orells eagle, or Summer, or Bloodraven's Weirwood, even with a human soul inside them. I don't really have much to back this up, but it's fun to speculate! It's certainly possible of course but I agree in that we simply have not got enough to back up the speculation on such things. Quote Re: The Daynes... yes please!! I love looking into what they were/are/could be! I'll be gutted if they have no real relevance in the final books. One day I'm going to really analyse everything about this bunch and their relevance. I've never gotten round to it. I know others likely have but I like to do my own research and theorising and one day House Dayne and it's sword will fall under my radar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fattest Leech Posted January 16, 2017 Share Posted January 16, 2017 Came across this today and thought it belonged here, for fun! http://ih0.redbubble.net/image.88760634.1019/flat,1000x1000,075,f.u2.jpg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Macgregor of the North Posted January 17, 2017 Author Share Posted January 17, 2017 11 hours ago, The Fattest Leech said: Came across this today and thought it belonged here, for fun! http://ih0.redbubble.net/image.88760634.1019/flat,1000x1000,075,f.u2.jpg Hahaha yeah, this would also fit with my Ice Spider thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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