Meera of Tarth

"Not-so-main" characters appreciation thread -Season 7 [Book Spoilers]

86 posts in this topic

4 hours ago, Rhollo said:

So Sansa can't convince the northerners because she knowns too little about them and has to reconnect (an argument I don't really buy btw. she still lived in the north for the biggest part of her life), but Davos can, because people from various places are pretty much the same in nature, anyway.

That sounds contradictory.

Because Sansa has more southern mentality, thematically wanted to get out of the North and be in King's Landing. She lost the sight of who Northerners are. Is that so tough to understand? Now she has to reconnect to the North. Davos is better at convincing people and not sure why you're trying to downplay him or quetion something that made sense.

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I don't deny that Jon is leading on the battlefield, I think he is doing a very bad job at it. Quick temper, slow mind, indeed. He acted pretty stupid in Hardhome, too. As Karsi rightfully pointed out, he should have fled first and stayed out of the fight , because if he dies, they are all doomed.

In WotW, he did fine, but Thorne was the guy in charge there.

In the books Jon is a lot more tactician, on the show more a warrior. But he leads by an example and given circumstances pretty good. Jon fiht his own battle, this is what leading by an example means. Not running like a coward. No, Jon took over defences and it was who saved them. Sam said it during LC election.

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So either a gaping plothole or an incredibly stupid character, just to have a few seconds of drama.

Tell that to D&D and their writing.

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Oh, two other characters I don't think I mentioned above.

Missandei and Grey Worm.

In the books, they are just kind of "there," but in the show they've been developed a lot more, including with additional scenes and sub-plots that are not in the books.  I like that a lot, cuz I think they're worthy of the extra attention.  Missandei is VERY smart, and Grey Worm is cool, as the leader of the Unsullied, with depth of character all his own.

Some people complain about the extra screen time they've gotten in the show, but not me.

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19 hours ago, Cron said:

Oh, two other characters I don't think I mentioned above.

Missandei and Grey Worm.

In the books, they are just kind of "there," but in the show they've been developed a lot more, including with additional scenes and sub-plots that are not in the books.  I like that a lot, cuz I think they're worthy of the extra attention.  Missandei is VERY smart, and Grey Worm is cool, as the leader of the Unsullied, with depth of character all his own.

Some people complain about the extra screen time they've gotten in the show, but not me.

I'm glad that they've fleshed out these two characters who I hardly noticed in the books, although I hate the introduction of a romantic subplot between the characters, which strikes me as incredibly cliché and contrived, as if they had to do this because Daario made a comment about Grey Worm liking Missandei (I actually thought he was saying Grey Worm liked Dany).

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18 hours ago, CaptainTheo said:

I'm glad that they've fleshed out these two characters who I hardly noticed in the books, although I hate the introduction of a romantic subplot between the characters, which strikes me as incredibly cliché and contrived, as if they had to do this because Daario made a comment about Grey Worm liking Missandei (I actually thought he was saying Grey Worm liked Dany).

Hmmmm.

Interesting.  Maybe it is cliche, but I thought they were a good match, cuz they are both really good at what they do, and they see each other a lot cuz they are both high in Dany's chain of command.  They are also both very serious and dedicated to what they do, so an attraction between them seemed natural to me.

I was mildly surprised at first, cuz of course Grey Worm has had major damage done to his genitals (the exact nature of which is apparently unknown, or at least, unknown by me) but maybe Missandei doesn't care about that, I suppose.   Maybe she's not really interested in sex anyway, and views the relationship as more of a deep platonic "love," if there is such a thing.

I guess in that sense, it did not seem cliche to me, but rather, an exploration of fairly unusual circumstances (a "romantic" relationship between a man and a woman that can never be fully sexual).

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This episode was good in terms of secondary characters.

Sam in the Citadel was funny and interesting. I particularly loved it.

The scenes with the Hound and the Brotherhood were not bad.

Bran, one of the main characters in the books an in theory in the show had just a few screentime, though. However, it was so nice to see him again with Meera Reed. This is the first time that Meera says her name and her house name to other people except Bran in the show.

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8 hours ago, Meera of Tarth said:

I have a weird theory that Varys is still on the show because it relates to Gendry.  Varys role in the books and the show is about his knowledge and information.  He is not a warrior and his role in Dany's camp is replicated by Tyrion.  But in the books, he is the one to pay Tobho Mott double so that Gendry can apprentice for him.  Gendry is the bastard he saved in King's Landing.  I know that Varys dealt with Robert's bastards and he knew that having a bastard alive can be useful but why did he specifically save Gendry.  Robert already had an acknowledged bastard that Varys knew about in Edric Storm.  I think Varys knows something about Gendry that we don't know about yet.  And if Varys has new information about Gendry I think that would be more shocking than any info regarding the Targs, Starks or Lannisters.  Plus it will give Varys something to do instead of fretting about Dany and her dragons.

 

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Posted (edited)

56 minutes ago, goldenmaps said:

I have a weird theory that Varys is still on the show because it relates to Gendry.  Varys role in the books and the show is about his knowledge and information.  He is not a warrior and his role in Dany's camp is replicated by Tyrion.  But in the books, he is the one to pay Tobho Mott double so that Gendry can apprentice for him.  Gendry is the bastard he saved in King's Landing.  I know that Varys dealt with Robert's bastards and he knew that having a bastard alive can be useful but why did he specifically save Gendry.  Robert already had an acknowledged bastard that Varys knew about in Edric Storm.  I think Varys knows something about Gendry that we don't know about yet.  And if Varys has new information about Gendry I think that would be more shocking than any info regarding the Targs, Starks or Lannisters.  Plus it will give Varys something to do instead of fretting about Dany and her dragons.

 

Oh, this is very interesting! Honestly, I see a hard time seeing this, but I'd be gladly surprised if it end up happening;). It's true that he specifically paid him for Gendry....

Edited by Meera of Tarth

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Just now, Meera of Tarth said:

Oh, this is very interesting! Honestly, I see a hard time seeing this, but I'd be gladly surprised if it end up happening;). It's true that he specifically paid him for Gendry....

i can't find any other reason for Varys to still be on the show.  I think we already know all the Stark, Lannister and Targ secrets or any info that we don't know won't seem so shocking to me.  Varys is tied to King's Landing and the only other person tied to King's Landing is Gendry.

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1 hour ago, goldenmaps said:

  I think Varys knows something about Gendry that we don't know about yet.  And if Varys has new information about Gendry I think that would be more shocking than any info regarding the Targs, Starks or Lannisters. 

That would be very interesting, but it remains that Gendry looks a lot like his putative father… or does it have nothing to do with birth/blood?

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11 minutes ago, Nowy Tends said:

That would be very interesting, but it remains that Gendry looks a lot like his putative father… or does it have nothing to do with birth/blood?

My thinking is that it has to do with Gendry's mother since we don't know much about her.  I just couldn't find a reason for Varys still being on the show unless it has something to do with some info he possesses.  Plus it would be nice if we have Varys do something other than fretting about Dany.  I would like to see Varys in the background scheming again, it will make season 8 more interesting. Varys did guide a lot of Gendry's life already. 

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This is what Joe said:

"I've done well out of it this year, for sure," he said, before adding that fans shouldn't assume his character survives till the end.

"As with all these things, we never shoot in chronological order – so you might have people coming in at the beginning and at the end, but it doesn't necessarily mean they make it all the way through!

"For me personally, the only real hope I had for the character was just that he would be there when the reckoning came. You got the sense – even back in season 3 – that this was a show that was building towards some incredible climax, so you just wanted to be there when it all happened.

"Not even necessarily just from a character point-of-view, [but] from a personal point of view – to be stood there on the set when they're making that ending... that end game. So yeah, I'm very happy to be involved and be on set for season 8."

"I'm aware that David and Dan have a million-and-one things that they need to think about when they're putting their story arcs together," he said. "It was one of the reasons why I never took for granted returning to the show at all.

"That was always the idea, that was what they said to me when I left at the end of season 3, but things can change and there's so many strands they have to keep in their mind and weave together that you're never sure.

"It wouldn't have surprised me, and it wouldn't have angered me at all, if they'd got to season 7 and just not really had time for Gendry. So to not only come back and have that loose end tied up, but to have been given the amount of story I got, has been great – because not everyone gets that."

Whatever fate ultimately ends up befalling Gendry next year, Dempsie is just relieved that he's no longer being asked by fans when he'll be returning to the show.

"That became a fairly consistent part of my day-to-day existence for the years that I was out of the show, so it's nice not to have to keep that particular secret!

"However, there's a whole raft of new secrets that I now have to keep, so it never really lets up, the pressure to keep your mouth shut when it comes to anything to do with Game of Thrones!"

 

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A new interview to Joe Dempsie:

http://metro.co.uk/2018/04/06/game-thrones-joe-dempsie-teases-unexpected-satisfying-end-season-8-7446643/#mv-a

 ‘I’ve not envied [showrunners] David Benioff and Dan Weiss the task of having to find a way to bring this phenomenon to a conclusion that is both satisfying for the majority of the fans but also unpredictable.’ He added: ‘I’m sure David and Dan don’t pay too much attention to people’s theories and speculation there is all over the internet, but it would be a bit of an anti-climax if a well popularised theory turned out to be the way it ended. ‘There’s many pitfalls and I think they really have achieved that with this. It’s an ending I don’t think many people will be expecting and I think, on reflection, people will really, really enjoy

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On 4/4/2018 at 11:56 AM, goldenmaps said:

I have a weird theory that Varys is still on the show because it relates to Gendry.  Varys role in the books and the show is about his knowledge and information.  He is not a warrior and his role in Dany's camp is replicated by Tyrion.  But in the books, he is the one to pay Tobho Mott double so that Gendry can apprentice for him.  Gendry is the bastard he saved in King's Landing.  I know that Varys dealt with Robert's bastards and he knew that having a bastard alive can be useful but why did he specifically save Gendry.  Robert already had an acknowledged bastard that Varys knew about in Edric Storm.  I think Varys knows something about Gendry that we don't know about yet.  And if Varys has new information about Gendry I think that would be more shocking than any info regarding the Targs, Starks or Lannisters.  Plus it will give Varys something to do instead of fretting about Dany and her dragons.

 

I completely agree with your assessment. I have long held the belief that Gendry's mother is actually Cersei. He could be the black haired child she had with Robert. Given a different name and hidden away by herself or Varrys. That would make him the True King as Robert's legitimate heir. A true Baratheon. Varrys could very well be strategically placed to provide proof of this. 

After all, he and Tyrion have started to see how completely unstable Daenerys is. It wouldn't surprise me at all if they eventually turn on her after seeing that she is exactly like Cersei. The two mad Queens, mirror images. The seeds were planted this last season. You can only cousil a monarch not to murder people so many times before you ask yourself if there isn't someone better suited for the job.

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37 minutes ago, Lord Stannis-The True King said:

I completely agree with your assessment. I have long held the belief that Gendry's mother is actually Cersei. He could be the black haired child she had with Robert. Given a different name and hidden away by herself or Varrys. That would make him the True King as Robert's legitimate heir. A true Baratheon. Varrys could very well be strategically placed to provide proof of this. 

After all, he and Tyrion have started to see how completely unstable Daenerys is. It wouldn't surprise me at all if they eventually turn on her after seeing that she is exactly like Cersei. The two mad Queens, mirror images. The seeds were planted this last season. You can only cousil a monarch not to murder people so many times before you ask yourself if there isn't someone better suited for the job.

Not to mention that in the books, Varys was scheming with Illyrio to put "Aegon" on the throne.  Yet, he made sure to remove Gendry out of harm's way.  And he didn't even need Gendry to prove that the Lannister kids weren't Robert's.  In the books, they had Edric who was an acknowledged bastard who lives at Storm's End and he probably knew about Mya Stone.  And Gendry is the bastard that gets the most page and screen time.  And personally i would like a scheming Varys once again.

 

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29 minutes ago, goldenmaps said:

Not to mention that in the books, Varys was scheming with Illyrio to put "Aegon" on the throne.  Yet, he made sure to remove Gendry out of harm's way.  And he didn't even need Gendry to prove that the Lannister kids weren't Robert's.  In the books, they had Edric who was an acknowledged bastard who lives at Storm's End and he probably knew about Mya Stone.  And Gendry is the bastard that gets the most page and screen time.  And personally i would like a scheming Varys once again.

 

Yes, me too. right now he is pretty boring...

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10 minutes ago, Meera of Tarth said:

Yes, me too. right now he is pretty boring...

Yes.  And underutilized.  And Littlefinger is dead.  Varys and Littlefinger were great secondary characters because they were both smart, interesting and ruthless. 

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Posted (edited)

Does anyone else miss Salladhor Saan? I've been waiting for him to come back. Maybe Davos can convince him and his pirate allies to fight the Greyjoy navy. 

Edited by Lord Stannis-The True King
Grammar

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