Azor Ahai and the monster he killed

[Dorian Martell's son]

20 hours ago, LordImp said:

The Jade compendium mentions that AA once fought a monster and the monster burst into flame . 

The Other Sam killed melted , it didn't burst into flame . No boiling blood or steam from it's mouth .  So what monster did AA kill then ? IMO the monster could sound like a dragon . But then again it's weird to fight a fiery monster with a fiery blade .

Melisandre seems to be the only one of the Red priests that talks about the Others . Moqorro seems to be more concerned about Euron and Benerro mentions the Dark  eye who is watching Dany , the dark eye sounds very much like Euron . 

The fact that the Red faith in general does not speak of the Others and that Azor Ahai killed  a monster that bursted into flame makes me wonder if the legendary hero didnt fought the Others at all ? But then again the prophecy says that AA will fight the cold darkness with Lightbringer . The cold darkness is definetly the Others . 

I'm kinda split here . I'm thinking that AA did not fight the Others , but the prophecy makes me rethink that . 

 

What do you guys think ? What is the AA prophecy really about ? Was the monster he killed a Other or something else ? 

Personally, I do not think AA ever existed. It was just the morphing of tales over thousands of miles and thousands of years as it is told in different tongues along he way

[hiraeth]

23 minutes ago, LordImp said:

The notion that the Children forged him a sword is strange , as the children didnt use or work steel. 

Maybe it had to do something with magic, not actual metal work... I can't think of any other mention of the sword in the story of the LH, I am trying to remember anything from that story that can be connected to the AA story...

[LordImp]

5 minutes ago, Dorian Martell's son said:

Personally, I do not think AA ever existed. It was just the morphing of tales over thousands of miles and thousands of years as it is told in different tongues along he way

Could be. All these heroes are very similar to each other after all. 

[kissdbyfire]

6 hours ago, hiraeth said:

There is one thing that makes me uncomfortable  though - why is Mel in Westeros? Why does she insist on the AA being in Westeros and brings her southern legend to the continent that will clearly be attacked by the WW? Is she completely delusional? Can't she see that there are no lions around the Wall to help forge the LB? And should Daenerys use her Dragons to fight whatever is going to attack Essos, not even returning to Westeros, rendering the Iron Throne totally unimportant. There were no dragons and Targs to fight in Westeros during the last LN, only the humans and the Children...

Because she sucks at interpreting the visions Red Rahloo sends her.

ps: just read another post of yours, and just wanted to confirm: Martin has said Mel has her own agenda.

http://www.westeros.org/Citadel/SSM/Entry/Asshai.com_Interview_in_Barcelona/

Q: Why did Melisandre seek out Stannis? Did she see him in her flames and decided to seek him out on her own, or is she on a mission on behalf of the red priests? It doesn't seem at any point as if the latter is the case, when you compare to Moqorro who has been sent out by the priesthood.

Martin: You're right. Melisandre has gone to Stannis entirely on her own, and has her own agenda.

[GyantSpyder]

I think the monster Azor Ahai fought was in the weirwoods. I don't think he fought the Others. He even may have been on the same side as them.

To go back to @Drogonthedread

21 hours ago, Drogonthedread said:

The black dragon spread his wings and roared.

    A lance of swirling dark flame took Kraznys full in the face. His eyes melted and ran down his cheeks, and the oil in his hair and beard burst so fiercely into fire that for an instant the slaver wore a burning crown twice as tall as his head.

Look at the sigil of House Marbrand:

http://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/House_Marbrand

There's some other imagery throughout the story of burning trees - and the weirwoods have red leaves now, but are historically associated with the color green - greenseers, green dreams, green men, green hands, etc. So something may have happened to them to turn them red (perhaps they were "kissed by fire?").

We've been talking in the "magic mushrooms" thread about the possibility of an intelligent fungus living within and under the weirwoods that turns them white, and that is symbiotic with them and connects them with each other through mycelia under the ground - that this fungus also infects wights, and is highly flammable, which is why wights catch on fire so easily, and why the blood of other reanimated people (like Beric) is flammable.

That this fungus exists on a continental scale, and feeds on blood, and is the origin of the worship of the Old Gods and its attendant human sacrifices. It either has its own psychic powers or is otherwise able to influence the minds of its hosts, including the weirwood net.

Let's say that we're in a full-on body-snatchers situation - where the entire continent of Westeros or even most of the world is under the control of this alien being - that the fungus, not the Others, is the "Great Other" of R'hllorism, and Azor Ahai set out to liberate humanity from it.

Azor Ahai could have taken some sort of drastic action to set a whole lot of the continent on fire at once.

If the weirwoods are infected with this fungus, and they have faces carved in them, the fungus would burn faster than the tree does, perhaps causing steam to escape the mouth of the tree, bloody-red sap to dribble out of its eyes, and its branches and leaves to catch on fire.

The truly combustible substance isn't the tree itself, its the flammable agent in the tree, like the oil in the slaver's hair and beard. And the tree would also be a form of slaver.

[hiraeth]

11 hours ago, kissdbyfire said:

Because she sucks at interpreting the visions Red Rahloo sends her.

ps: just read another post of yours, and just wanted to confirm: Martin has said Mel has her own agenda.

http://www.westeros.org/Citadel/SSM/Entry/Asshai.com_Interview_in_Barcelona/

Q: Why did Melisandre seek out Stannis? Did she see him in her flames and decided to seek him out on her own, or is she on a mission on behalf of the red priests? It doesn't seem at any point as if the latter is the case, when you compare to Moqorro who has been sent out by the priesthood.

Martin: You're right. Melisandre has gone to Stannis entirely on her own, and has her own agenda.

Thanks for the Martin's quote - I can now rule out Mel being sent by someone, but, maybe she is influenced by someone to interpret the visions in a wrong way, I read on the forums that people suspect BR's influence - she even has a glimpse of him in her fires - maybe she is an unsuspecting vessel of someone else's game. What I also can't understand - does she really, honestly think that Stannis is AA - or is she fashioning him into being fAA as a part of whatever her agenda is? Her POVs are ambiguos, at least for me with respect to Stannis... She is an accoplished sorceress, judging by her other exploits, is it possible that she is so bad at interpreting visions? This AA and Mel thing gives me serious headaches...

[ravenous reader]

11 hours ago, GyantSpyder said:

I think the monster Azor Ahai fought was in the weirwoods.

Bravo!  I think so too.  Just not sure who or what that is, but pretty certain it's in the tree .

Quote

I don't think he fought the Others. He even may have been on the same side as them.

You are presuming the Others have no relation to the weirwoods?  You agree the Others have some relation to the wights (who have prominent tree symbolism, complicating the picture)?  Wighted Waymar is transformed by the 'lightning strike' of the Other, just as much as his magicked-up sword which is compared to a lightning-struck tree branch.  This passage in which Sam fights wighted Small Paul with fire, culminating in the wight's face erupting into flame, is remarkably similar to @Drogonthedread's superb catch of Dany fighting the slaver using Drogon's dragonfire:

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A Storm of Swords - Samwell III

His fumbling fingers finally found the dagger, but when he slammed it up into the wight's belly the point skidded off the iron links, and the blade went spinning from Sam's hand. Small Paul's fingers tightened inexorably, and began to twist. He's going to rip my head off, Sam thought in despair. His throat felt frozen, his lungs on fire. He punched and pulled at the wight's wrists, to no avail. He kicked Paul between the legs, uselessly. The world shrank to two blue stars, a terrible crushing pain, and a cold so fierce that his tears froze over his eyes. Sam squirmed and pulled, desperate . . . and then he lurched forward.

Small Paul was big and powerful, but Sam still outweighed him, and the wights were clumsy, he had seen that on the Fist. The sudden shift sent Paul staggering back a step, and the living man and the dead one went crashing down together. The impact knocked one hand from Sam's throat, and he was able to suck in a quick breath of air before the icy black fingers returned. The taste of blood filled his mouth. He twisted his neck around, looking for his knife, and saw a dull orange glow. The fire! Only ember and ashes remained, but still . . . he could not breathe, or think . . . Sam wrenched himself sideways, pulling Paul with him . . . his arms flailed against the dirt floor, groping, reaching, scattering the ashes, until at last they found something hot . . . a chunk of charred wood, smouldering red and orange within the black . . . his fingers closed around it, and he smashed it into Paul's mouth, so hard he felt teeth shatter.

Yet even so the wight's grip did not loosen. Sam's last thoughts were for the mother who had loved him and the father he had failed. The longhall was spinning around him when he saw the wisp of smoke rising from between Paul's broken teeth. Then the dead man's face burst into flame, and the hands were gone.

 

Quote

To go back to @Drogonthedread

On 6/10/2017 at 3:21 AM, Drogonthedread said:

The black dragon spread his wings and roared.

    A lance of swirling dark flame took Kraznys full in the face. His eyes melted and ran down his cheeks, and the oil in his hair and beard burst so fiercely into fire that for an instant the slaver wore a burning crown twice as tall as his head.

Look at the sigil of House Marbrand:

http://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/House_Marbrand

Nice connection.  

Quote

There's some other imagery throughout the story of burning trees - and the weirwoods have red leaves now, but are historically associated with the color green - greenseers, green dreams, green men, green hands, etc. So something may have happened to them to turn them red (perhaps they were "kissed by fire?").

That's a great argument.

Quote

We've been talking in the "magic mushrooms" thread about the possibility of an intelligent fungus living within and under the weirwoods that turns them white, and that is symbiotic with them and connects them with each other through mycelia under the ground - that this fungus also infects wights, and is highly flammable, which is why wights catch on fire so easily, and why the blood of other reanimated people (like Beric) is flammable.

That this fungus exists on a continental scale, and feeds on blood, and is the origin of the worship of the Old Gods and its attendant human sacrifices. It either has its own psychic powers or is otherwise able to influence the minds of its hosts, including the weirwood net.

Let's say that we're in a full-on body-snatchers situation - where the entire continent of Westeros or even most of the world is under the control of this alien being - that the fungus, not the Others, is the "Great Other" of R'hllorism, and Azor Ahai set out to liberate humanity from it.

Azor Ahai could have taken some sort of drastic action to set a whole lot of the continent on fire at once.

If the weirwoods are infected with this fungus, and they have faces carved in them, the fungus would burn faster than the tree does, perhaps causing steam to escape the mouth of the tree, bloody-red sap to dribble out of its eyes, and its branches and leaves to catch on fire.

The truly combustible substance isn't the tree itself, its the flammable agent in the tree, like the oil in the slaver's hair and beard. And the tree would also be a form of slaver.

 Brilliant -- the tree is certainly a slaver!

One question; if it's so imperative to rid the world of this magical agent -- 'fungus' or whatever (I'm not sure it's a fungus necessarily, but let's stick with fungus as a useful analogy for thinking about the collective hive mind) -- then why are people deliberately carving faces into the trees, facilitating the entry of the agent (which I compared on your thread to the insertion of metal rods facilitating the entry of the penicillium mold during gorgonzola production...)?!

If burning the slaver liberates the slaves, i.e. the Unsullied as their slaves who have symbolic parallels with the Others, as @GloubieBoulga has noted, then we can say that burning the trees liberates the Others (or banishes them from the trees, depending on your perspective).  The surprising inference here is that Azor Ahai's 'heroic' action is responsible for the appearance of the Others!