Angel Eyes Posted September 17, 2017 Author Share Posted September 17, 2017 12 hours ago, falcotron said: Tolkien may have had to deal with WWI, but GRRM had to deal with the 1990s TV industry. Well, when it comes to 1990s TV outside of Jeremy Brett's Sherlock Holmes, Star Trek, and Sharpe (starring Sean Bean), I'm like Jon Snow. I know nothing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DominusNovus Posted September 17, 2017 Share Posted September 17, 2017 On 9/5/2017 at 10:37 PM, falcotron said: Being a bad man also carries a fatal price. Valar morghulis. The point of being a good man in GRRM's world is being a good man, just as it is in the real world. If you're only being decent because you expect to be rewarded for it, you're not all that decent in the first place. Thinking about this a bit more, and I think there is also a commentary on medieval society in the general implicit in the overall story. Much of what constitutes a viable society, by any metric, throughout history, is how much it rewards behavior deemed good, and punished behavior deemed bad. And the simple fact is that our modern industrial society is far better at doing that than a society with the level of technology available in Westeros and Essos. Even worse, the typical fantasy counterpart to technology, magic, is not a leveler (like gunpowder and printing are), but something that exarcebates the divide between the powerful and the weak, further weakening such societal pressures. This all compliments the general theme of GRRM deconstructing fantasy tropes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curled Finger Posted September 17, 2017 Share Posted September 17, 2017 Like pretty much everyone else, I thought Jamie Lannister was a creep at 1st. I didn't think there was any way at all Theon would be permitted to survive his crimes. And of course sweet Jorah would get something for all his dedication, right? Not even close. As we see Jamie greet Brienne in Feast we fear The Kinglsayer will at last pay. Did anyone actually enjoy Theon's imprisonment? After all this love and devotion and jealousy, does anyone even want Jorah to get back into Dany's good graces? Jamie and Theon are drawn as antagonists early on, both traitors and wicked. The more we learn about Jorah the more menacing he becomes. Granted, Jorah too, has undergone some metamorphosis during his late travels. Perhaps he is not such a danger to Dany as he once was, but his reward will depend on what he really wants in his heart. Jamie wants honor and our pay off is his burning Cersei's plea for help. Theon wants to abate his guilt. He may still get his chance. The point is that none of these characters were necessarily rewarded so much as they pay for their crimes in guilt and maiming and try to do better afterward. Like it or not, Jamie and Theon are good people beneath it all, but it had to be brought to the surface. I can't see the lesson being that bad triumphs over good when Jamie loses his sword hand, Jorah is chained and beaten like a dog and Theon has multiple consciences. All that said, the abiity to view things from both good and bad rounds a mind and soul. Perhaps it is all about intelligence rather than morality. Certainly 2 of these 3 characters are smarter now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Bard of Banefort Posted September 17, 2017 Share Posted September 17, 2017 One of the main factors behind the Grand Northern Conspiracy (or, more likely, a series of smaller northern conspiracies) is Ned's legacy as a good man. He earned the North's loyalty, and now they're repaying him in turn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DominusNovus Posted September 17, 2017 Share Posted September 17, 2017 9 minutes ago, The Bard of Banefort said: One of the main factors behind the Grand Northern Conspiracy (or, more likely, a series of smaller northern conspiracies) is Ned's legacy as a good man. He earned the North's loyalty, and now they're repaying him in turn. Which reminds me, I've been meaning to write up a quick essay about how Ned actually was a skilled political actor, he just was skilled at Northern politics, which are totally different than Southern politics (imagine a competent soviet governor suddenly in charge of, say, Texas). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Bard of Banefort Posted September 18, 2017 Share Posted September 18, 2017 On 9/17/2017 at 2:25 PM, DominusNovus said: Which reminds me, I've been meaning to write up a quick essay about how Ned actually was a skilled political actor, he just was skilled at Northern politics, which are totally different than Southern politics (imagine a competent soviet governor suddenly in charge of, say, Texas). Agreed. One thing I've noticed about both ASOIAF and real world politics is that people underestimate the power of cultural. It effects everything we do, even when we don't realize it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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