Sandor Clegane - alive

[Salami]

oops

[LordNedsHead]

The more interesting aspect to this facet of the story is not wether Sandor is alive or not (he is). Its what the heck happened to him to get him to swear a life to the brothers. Serving in this capacity seems highly out of character for Clegane. He may not be evil incarnate like his brother, but he clearly goes out of his way to reject any authority around him. He's pretty much an upjumped sellsword (in character not actual station) who only looks out for number one from start to finish in the first three books. Yeah he serves the Lannisters at court, but he does so for the money and has no problem telling Tyrion to go bugger himself during the Battle of the Blackwater.

So why the sudden change?

The most likely answer to me is that he hasn't changed at all.

The guy is wanted by the crown. Even more so now after all the fake Hound debauchery at Saltpans and elsewhere. If you ask me Sandor is simply using the monastery to hide out, lick his wounds and figure out what he's going to do next. If the price of laying low includes digging some ditches and turning his horse into the equine version of Varys then so be it.

It might be interesting to see if spending time at the monastery eventually changes him in any way. I just can't see him ever becoming as devout as Lancel, but maybe time among the monks will temper his anger for the world and we may end up seeing him ultimately becoming something of the pure knight in spirit that in name he so vehemently rejects.

[Guest Ontology Interface Layer]

The more interesting aspect to this facet of the story is not whether Sandor is alive or not (he is). Its what the heck happened to him to get him to swear a life to the brothers.

It's not at all clear that he has sworn his life to the Seven yet. He's a novice, and while we don't have all the details of Sevenish novitiate, the same word (and another: acolyte) are used for those seeking to become maesters. There may be vows for novices and acolytes, but if so, they are not so binding and final as the maester's vow, for which one spends a night's vigil beforehand.

Pate was clearly in a position to walk away from his novitiate (and few would miss him) as was Oberyn Martell from his acolytehood. I'd be surprised if the Gravedigger wasn't equally free to walk away from his novitiate.

[A wilding]

I have said it before, but to me rereading ASoS makes Sandor's new role entirely plausible. Thoughout ASoS we see him looking for some cause to follow and fight for while not finding one; clearly close to the end of his tether while still holding true to his ideals; and even flirting with death. Then in AFfC we learn that, as he lay abandoned and dying with nobody left and nowhere to go, a charismatic religious leader came by, took him in, and healed him.

IMO a religious conversion is entirely plausible.

Though I also agree with OIL, in that the conversion may well not last, and that as a novice he has probably not yet taken any irreversible vows.

[emmank]

Sandor is one of my favorites, but does anyone else see the real possibility that we've seen the last of his story? I've reread that Quiet Isle chapter of Brienne's more than a few times, and I am continually bothered by the emphasis on how "lame" the gravedigger is. I'm not sure of the timeline, I need to go find those timeline threads, but it seems to me that if Brienne noticed how gimpy he is, maybe he is just going to stay that way. Maybe his final scene is meant to be a nod of farewell in which we readers find out that Sandor is just another casualty of war. I mean, really, in what way could he make a comeback if he is crippled? He can't save anyone, or fight zombies or wights or undead brothers, or really do much of anything. I hope I'm wrong, but I have this nagging hunch that he's done. Or has George said that we will be seeing more of him?

[Lord O' Bones]

I mean, really, in what way could he make a comeback if he is crippled? He can't save anyone, or fight zombies or wights or undead brothers, or really do much of anything. I hope I'm wrong, but I have this nagging hunch that he's done. Or has George said that we will be seeing more of him?

He is not crippled, he was injured. Injuries heal.

[emmank]

He is not crippled, he was injured. Injuries heal.

Here it is: http://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php?showt...1757&st=120 the 3rd or 4th post down, someone has figured that about 3 months have passed since Sandor was wounded, though this may be incorrect, I haven't tried to timeline the whole book myself.

[Lord O' Bones]

Here it is: http://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php?showt...1757&st=120 the 3rd or 4th post down, someone has figured that about 3 months have passed since Sandor was wounded, though this may be incorrect, I haven't tried to timeline the whole book myself.

Nonetheless, it was a flesh wound. Deep, yes. Infected, yes. But nothing that should result in crippling.

Unfortunately (for the purpose of this discussion) I have never taken a sword wound to the thigh. But I did tear a muscle in my back that took 6 months to heal to the point that it didn't hamper my left arm's movement.

[The_BlauerDragon]

The more interesting aspect to this facet of the story is not wether Sandor is alive or not (he is). Its what the heck happened to him to get him to swear a life to the brothers. Serving in this capacity seems highly out of character for Clegane. He may not be evil incarnate like his brother, but he clearly goes out of his way to reject any authority around him. He's pretty much an upjumped sellsword (in character not actual station) who only looks out for number one from start to finish in the first three books. Yeah he serves the Lannisters at court, but he does so for the money and has no problem telling Tyrion to go bugger himself during the Battle of the Blackwater.

So why the sudden change?

The most likely answer to me is that he hasn't changed at all.

The guy is wanted by the crown. Even more so now after all the fake Hound debauchery at Saltpans and elsewhere. If you ask me Sandor is simply using the monastery to hide out, lick his wounds and figure out what he's going to do next. If the price of laying low includes digging some ditches and turning his horse into the equine version of Varys then so be it.

It might be interesting to see if spending time at the monastery eventually changes him in any way. I just can't see him ever becoming as devout as Lancel, but maybe time among the monks will temper his anger for the world and we may end up seeing him ultimately becoming something of the pure knight in spirit that in name he so vehemently rejects.

Yes, we may. Think about it this way. in Westeros, what options does one really have for medical care? If you don't have access to a Maester, where do you go? The answer: to the Faith. He needed healing, they had the means to provide it. He might have even been content to just hang around there and make a quiet life for himself...

...then along comes Brienne. She's everything that a true knight ought to be, and the bag of proverbial chips. Deep down inside, he still yearns for that "true knight" gallantry. he fact that he's never met a knight that lived up to his ideal is what's made him so bitter towards them all. Then he meets Brienne. What's more is, she's looking for his little bird. The sister of the one that denied him the gift of mercy. We all know that he's got a hard-on for Sansa to begin with. I think that he might have seen following Brienne on her fool's errand as a mission worthy of living for. He'll get to be the true knight, he'll get to rescue the damsel in distress, he'll get to hear his little bird singing in coital bliss just for him, he may get a chance to fall in love with a Lady knight, and he'll get to show that little brat kid that he was deserving of better treatment than she gave him. Oh, and what's this? Brienne just happens to be (not only in peril, but also) in the same location as his missing headgear.

I think that if she lives to team up with the Hound, Brienne will get a little bit dirty, he'll get a lot clean, and they just might be able to make something really memorable somewhere in the middle.

[Gunnur]

I would assume this has been discussed to death, but isn't it a foregone conclusion that Sandor will become the Champion for the religious wackos in King's Landing once he gets his bearings. He hates the Lannisters and it seems like the plot is twisting him right into this corner.

[Jon Targaryen]

I would assume this has been discussed to death, but isn't it a foregone conclusion that Sandor will become the Champion for the religious wackos in King's Landing once he gets his bearings. He hates the Lannisters and it seems like the plot is twisting him right into this corner.

It's been mentioned as a theory but I believe the reason is that Gregor would be the champion for Cersei and Sandor would "relapse" and want to fight Gregor. I can't recall him hating the Lannisters per se. He didn't love them but he worked for them long enough.

[Manus_Dei]

Crackpot Theory coming at you: UnGregor is countered by newly pious and ressurected Sandor.............?

[DocBean]

Crackpot Theory coming at you: UnGregor is countered by newly pious and ressurected Sandor.............?

how is that Crackpot?

I'd say about 75% of people in these forums expect to see a Sandor Gregor Fight.

I'm one of the few that believe that Sandor won't fight again, even though he and Gregor are still alive.

of course I also believe that Davos will get his head chopped off in the next book, and Doran, Varys, Illyrio, Marwyn, and Littlefinger are all working together.

So my opinion probably doesn't mean much.

[Ser_not_appearing_yet]

Crackpot Theory coming at you: UnGregor is countered by newly pious and ressurected Sandor.............?

Yeah, several people have already suggested that.

I dont buy into the whole 'Sandor = noble paladin' argument however.

[Manus_Dei]

how is that Crackpot?

I'd say about 75% of people in these forums expect to see a Sandor Gregor Fight.

I'm one of the few that believe that Sandor won't fight again, even though he and Gregor are still alive.

of course I also believe that Davos will get his head chopped off in the next book, and Doran, Varys, Illyrio, Marwyn, and Littlefinger are all working together.

So my opinion probably doesn't mean much.

It probably has been suggested many times. Im somewhat new to the forum.

And as for it being crackpot, i would say most theories with very little evidence supporting them should be considered "crackpot". It is def. logical to assume that Sandor-Gregor will fight by the end of the series, but it is pure speculation.

[Manus_Dei]

Yeah, several people have already suggested that.

I dont buy into the whole 'Sandor = noble paladin' argument however.

I agree. And even if he does reach a new pious state, i think that a fight with Gregor would require a level of viciousness that would bring his old self to the forefront again.

[Szar]

Why should a pious person be anymore unable to fight Gregor than Sandor as his old self?

[SummerKnight]

I dont think we'll see sandor vs GREGOR. no matter if sandor is good now or if he's just biding his time, i think the elder brother (or whoever it was that said he was at 'peace') is correct when he says that 'even that has been taken from him'. i think sandor is entering a new phase of his life and the old sandor is, indeed dead. I have no quotes or backup, just gut feeling based on GRRM's writing style. Sandors fate is not to kill his brother, i believe it is to overcome his personal demons. Although it does seem to be intertwined with sansa and brienne somehow.

In fact, i bet sandor becomes a mystery from this point on: making appearances here and there in different POV chapters, with wildly varying accounts of his deeds, so that it will be hard to make sense of his real motivations, and yes i believe that a self sacrifice wouldnt be out of question at some point. classic GRRM.

Sandor is indeed one of GRRM's greatest creations, and i definitely look forward to how his sad story ends.

[TrueMetis]

What if the new POV in a dance of dragons is Sandor? You know not having his name mentioned right away so that for the first chapter, or maybe even couple of chapters, we don't know it's him but GRRM is dropping hints the entire time, so that those who have an eye for detail realize it's him while the people who don't get a serious shock when it's reviled.

Just a thought I suddenly had.

[SummerKnight]

What if the new POV in a dance of dragons is Sandor?

didnt GRRM say somewhere that the new POV chapter would be from somebody whose name starts with 'Q' ? so probably not sandor.