Who poisoned Joffrey?

[Colonel Green]

Why couldn't Tywin have married Sansa to Lancel after the purple wedding?

Because Sansa herself would have been accused (which is, indeed, what Cersei's manufactured witnesses do). Like I said, possibly she might have been let off, but there's no way Cersei would have let that go. Moreover, if Tywin was involved he would know exactly where Sansa was after she escaped.

[Lost Melnibonean]

Because Sansa herself would have been accused (which is, indeed, what Cersei's manufactured witnesses do). Like I said, possibly she might have been let off, but there's no way Cersei would have let that go. Moreover, if Tywin was involved he would know exactly where Sansa was after she escaped.

And Tywin could have seen that she was cleared.

[Colonel Green]

Er, I pointed that out, and also that Cersei (among others) would be very unlikely to let it stop there.

And Tywin's involvement still makes no sense, as pointed out, because he would have known where Sansa was afterward.

[Lord_Tyrell]

The Tyrell plan was to kill Tyrion. Their plan got botched up because Joffrey ate the pie meant for Tyrion. LF knew Olenna's plan but whether he played a role to botch it is questionable. In any case, what LF wanted was to smuggle Sansa out of KL, and that he did.

If Tyrion died, the fall guy would be Sansa. Joffrey was never meant to die that day.

Why kill Tyrion though? Seriously, what did the Tyrells have against him that they'd want to kill him immediately rather than make him a fall guy. It's just a needless and pointless addition by the fan base that makes zero sense.

[Lord_Tyrell]

One of the Kettlebacks could have told Littlefinger.

Olenna would not have spent so much money on a wedding, if it was to kill Joffrey.

Olenna did not intend to kill Joffrey. The original plan was to have Tyrion killed.

If LF made a botch out of her original plans is something we don't know.

Then why the Sansa interrogation? Sorry, but this isn't even a debate. You are just plain wrong and trying to put things into play that are already pretty self explanatory.

[Lord_Tyrell]

One of the Kettlebacks could have told Littlefinger.

Olenna would not have spent so much money on a wedding, if it was to kill Joffrey.

Olenna did not intend to kill Joffrey. The original plan was to have Tyrion killed.

If LF made a botch out of her original plans is something we don't know.

Then why the Sansa interrogation? Sorry, but this isn't even a debate. You are just plain wrong and trying to put things into play that are already pretty self explanatory.

[Lost Melnibonean]

Er, I pointed that out, and also that Cersei (among others) would be very unlikely to let it stop there.

And Tywin's involvement still makes no sense, as pointed out, because he would have known where Sansa was afterward.

Perhaps he was surprised LF smuggled her out. But I agree with you. While it is possible Tywin was behind it it's just not plausible. I think Martin just threw those hints in to keep the reader wondering. Good debate.

By the way what's the significance of the Tyrell women knowing where Sansa most likely is?

[Lord_Tyrell]

the way i see it Olenna, Marge and LF conspired to kill Joffrey. Olenna got the poison from Sansa's hairnet gave it to Marge who put it in the goblet. And LF suggested the dwarf jousters to spark a confrontation between Tyrion and Joff. But why the hairnet? why not just have Marge carry the poison?

Implicate Sansa if it ever came down to it. Making her an accomplice ties her to the true conspirators and mars there no going back for her.

[Colonel Green]

Implicate Sansa if it ever came down to it. Making her an accomplice ties her to the true conspirators and mars there no going back for her.

Her escape does the same. Nobody would ever believe she wasn't involved in the assassination after she vanished right as it happened. I tend to think the importance of using the hairnet to implicate her is seriously overstated; there was no way Sansa would choose to stay in King's Landing, and frankly, even if she later wanted to get away from Littlefinger, he's taking her into the same general vicinity of a bunch of people who hated Joffrey and the Lannisters and wouldn't care if she was accused of being a regicide. If she'd thrown herself at Bronze Yohn's feet and begged his protection like she briefly imagined doing, it's rather unlikely he would conclude he had to return her to King's Landing for trial.

[Twookus Stark]

Littlefinger was still mad at Tyrion for tricking him with the whole myrcella/robin arryn marriage, at least thats how i saw it. He seems like the kind of guy to hold a grudge, doesn't he?

[Non-canon Name]

Yeah, i remember all that stuff. It just find it funny that GRRM would spell it out so plainly for us after what happen at the Red Wedding. I'm feeling like GRRM is doing the Kansas City Shuffle, making us look left then go right.

Are you sure that's not the UTEP two step, or the Mississippi mamba? Or even the glass bottomed boat?

[Zar Lannister]

I think the pie is a red herring. Martin does that type of thing in his writing, he blinds you with the details until the sudden change of events occurs.

That said, I'm convinced Joffrey's poisoning is entirely a LF-Tyrell affair. All he arranged to do was to keep his hands clean and not let it trace to him.

I'm convinced it was the Strangler in the wine (it dissolves without trace, and an "amethyst" was missing from Sansa's hair net). It also coincides with the Maester's use of The Strangler against Melisandre in Dragonstone. Joffrey's death is exactly how the death from The Strangler is described.

Olenna was never at a distance to the chalice as to poison it. Margaery definitely knew enough of it as to be away from the Chalice when the death happened. I don't think she was the poisoner because the Courts eyes were over the married couple.

[Twookus Stark]

GRRM never turns down a chance to write about pie, does he?

[Bippy]

GRRM never turns down a chance to write about pie, does he?

:lol:

Though clearly he's conflicted. It's invariably an indicator of someone's death.

[Twookus Stark]

[Lost Melnibonean]

I think the pie is a red herring. Martin does that type of thing in his writing, he blinds you with the details until the sudden change of events occurs.

That said, I'm convinced Joffrey's poisoning is entirely a LF-Tyrell affair. All he arranged to do was to keep his hands clean and not let it trace to him.

I'm convinced it was the Strangler in the wine (it dissolves without trace, and an "amethyst" was missing from Sansa's hair net). It also coincides with the Maester's use of The Strangler against Melisandre in Dragonstone. Joffrey's death is exactly how the death from The Strangler is described.

Olenna was never at a distance to the chalice as to poison it. Margaery definitely knew enough of it as to be away from the Chalice when the death happened. I don't think she was the poisoner because the Courts eyes were over the married couple.

LF planted the poison in the net. Olenna took it out. Margaery slipped it in the chalice. And Allerie blamed it on the pigeon pie. Surely the ladies suspesct Sansa is with LF in the Vale. What, if anything will they do with that info?

[Bippy]

Another outcome question: what will happen if Sansa tries to use another hairnet jewel?

[assjfjgjsgjljljglgjfjsduar]

Another outcome question: what will happen if Sansa tries to use another hairnet jewel?

Littlefinger's demise. The maiden takes down the savage giant.

[Bippy]

I bet it doesn't work.

[Ygrain]

Joffrey himself poured it over Tyrion, correct? Suppose the "amethyst" had already been in there. What was Olenna going to do, rush over to fiddle with Sansa's hair again?

Do we know that "strangler" does color its substrate, or that Pycelle, that pillar of rectitude, accurately identified Joffrey's poison as "strangler"?

I don't care much who poisoned who, I figure GRRM will tell us sooner or later, but I'm not jumping to take LF's word for anything.

The poison couldn't be in the wine at that point because Margaery was drinking from the chalice together with Joff. She couldn't slip the poison in it, either, because everyone was looking at them. The only occasion when the poisoning could take place was when Joff and chalice were separated, and that was during cutting the pie.

If you dissolve a dark purple crystal, its particles will colour the liquid - ever tried dissolving hypermanganium?

Plus, we don't need Pycelle's word on which poison it was, we saw it at work in the prologue - it contracts the muscles of the throat and suffocates the victim, works almost instantaneously and is used dissolved in red wine to mask the colour.