Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

Jon Targaryen

[Pre-ADwD Spoilers] Daenerys 4 - Spoilers for ADWD

102 posts in this topic

So, what do you make of that scene at the end? The best female fighter duels a boar, but is killed. Then a dragon appears and kills the boar. That has to have a metaphorical meaning. The dragon probably represents the Targaryens, since it is their sigil. The boar? Well, we know that a boar killed King Robert. And we know that it was only able to kill Robert because Cersei had Lancel drug his wine. So, really, Cersei killed Robert. Maybe the boar represents Cersei. And after all, she is borish. Who is the best female fighter in Westeros? Brienne of Tarth, of course, Brienne the Beauty. So, maybe we've got a little foreshadowing going on here. Cersei will kill Brienne. Then, one of the Targaryens will kill Cersei. Now, the dragon in this scene is Drogon. He is the most dangerous of the three dragon, so I think he represents John Snow or Daenarys.

Cersei kills Brienne. John or Dany kill Cersei.

What do you all think?

Or it could just mean the gladiator is killed by the boar, who in turn are both roasted by Drogon.

No need for everything to have double meanings :kiss:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Or it could just mean the gladiator is killed by the boar, who in turn are both roasted by Drogon.

No need for everything to have double meanings :kiss:

lol, that double meaning does sound kinda cool though

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
My thoughts upon hearing of that scene was that it was intended to provide a mechanism for everyone in Meereen to see that Drogon eat humans. Aratan

I think you're right, but I wanted to add my thoughts. The people of Mereen watching the fighting see their favorite female gladiator killed by a beast. This shows how dangerous the boar is, and the people knew how good the gladiator was.

The emphasis is how Drogon swoops in and lances the boar and the corpse with fire and starts feeding. This was a great gladiator, and she was just bested by a boar...but neither of them stood a chance against the dragon. It shows how indescriminate the dragons are, eating people and animals equally. It also shows how powerful the dragons are becoming.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

After reading this chapter, I'm thinking that it comes much later in Dany's story.

There's knight training going on, and the city watch seems to have a much better control of things, with a system in place to protect themselves. For all we know, by this point Tyrion has arrived and has begun training Viserion and Rhaegal. I somehow think it would be easier for him to start with the smaller dragons before tackling the Drogon Problem.

Just because she doesn't mention Tyrion doesn't mean he isn't there. She dosen't mention her other dragons either, and I propose that Tyrion's arrival has taken a weight off her shoulders. She no longer has to worry about her dragons every second of the day (until Drogon shows up again, that is).

IIRC, before AFFC was released George read a Cersei chapter from later in the book (right before Tywin's funeral). I think this parallels that instance, since nothing much happened in the Cersei chapter either. George has a habit of reading the chapters that have less major plot going on, not that I blame him! He'd rather save the good, meaty stuff for the real release. I'm going to guess this falls around Daenerys VII.

I for one am hoping Dany sweeps the floor with Cersei. She has the ability to be a great ruler, and this is her time to shine. The fact that she even accepted that the pits needed to be reopened, despite that she reviles them AND stated that she wouldn't let them open, is proof that she's thinking more about Mereen's best interests than her own.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
After reading this chapter, I'm thinking that it comes much later in Dany's story.

There's knight training going on, and the city watch seems to have a much better control of things, with a system in place to protect themselves.

"Knight training" is mentioned in the preview chapter at the end of AFFC, which, I believe, is Dany I, so it doesn't tell much about the time of this chapter.

In any case, it seems like this one will be changed radically. Many of the events in this one has already been covered in the new Dany I-II-III.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

four chapters and dany's still rooted firmly in mereen. no sign of quentyn, tyrion, victarion or marwyn. just boring slaver's bay politics...i hope grrm condenses much of this stuff into 1 or 2 chapters and gets on with the main storyline or we'll have to wait another 2-3 years before dany invades westeros.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
four chapters and dany's still rooted firmly in mereen. no sign of quentyn, tyrion, victarion or marwyn. just boring slaver's bay politics...i hope grrm condenses much of this stuff into 1 or 2 chapters and gets on with the main storyline or we'll have to wait another 2-3 years before dany invades westeros.

I think what people do seem to be forgetting is that aDwD runs parallel with aFfC. This does mean that all the people leaving for Dany halfway through aFfC can hardly instantly reach her. Victarion goes to Meereen near the end of the book, so does Marwyn. Tyrion is still stuck with Illyrio and it might take him some time as well. Quentyn has the likeliest chance of reaching her first, but since he gets a PoV it could be that there's some important plot going on while he's travelling to Meereen (which could mean that it takes longer, or maybe he doesn't get there at all).

The thing that does bother me though, is that the book is still called 'A dance with dragons' of which I've always thought it meant Tyrion and all the other people trying to gain Dany's favour and win her for their cause. There's not a lot of time for this though seeing as most will only arrive near the end of the book. (Or maybe not at all)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Tyrion spent only a little time with Illirio and Grif in second Tyrion chapter meant to get to Daenerys as quick as possible. So Tyrion should reach Dany by the middle of the ADWD.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I was hoping to be the first to reply to this thread in over a year. Oh well.

In my mind, this chapter will not appear in ADWD. It's clearly a victim of Martin's rewrites. The other three chapters go on at great length about how the fighting pits are staying closed, but this chapter clearly would be a complete about-face on that issue. Then there's mention of how the dragons are loose and killing sheep... but that was already dealt with wasn't it? And the bits about Cleon fighting Yunkai.

Basically, I'm just lobbying for a change in the title of the thread. Like maybe relabeling it as Daenerys Old 1.

What's fascinating, though, are the choices George has made in the plot points he has eliminated. I suspect I'm not the first to notice this, and I need to go through the archives of the other Dany spoiler chapters to get the juicy discussion bits?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
In my mind, this chapter will not appear in ADWD. It's clearly a victim of Martin's rewrites. The other three chapters go on at great length about how the fighting pits are staying closed, but this chapter clearly would be a complete about-face on that issue. Then there's mention of how the dragons are loose and killing sheep... but that was already dealt with wasn't it? And the bits about Cleon fighting Yunkai.

I think certain events in this chapter will occur in Dany IV, especially the last scene with the gladiator and the boar. I think the fact that Dany's thoughts aren't focussed on Rhaegal and Viserion also suggest that this scene is set chronologically after she locks them up in the fighting pit (in Dany II). The scene is going to be integral to the plot because of the number of witnesses who see the savage ferocity of Dany's dragons.

But yes most of the details are already present in other chapters, meaning that Dany IV has likely been heavily re-written.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Any chance there's something to the fact that Dany is a "Red" dragon and that Drogon is black? None of Dany's dragons are red, and I thought it could easily mean nothing, but also it could mean something very significant. A Blackfyre descendant/claimant could get control of Drogon somehow, or his color could be an indication of something more simple. He could turn on her completely, or kill a loved one.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Balerion was black.

Of course I am well aware of that. What's your point? We don't really know that much about Balerion. For all we know, he ate a loyal Targ or two, right? ;)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The point is very simple – the color of Drogon more likely associated with color or Balerion and with no link to Blackfyres.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
The point is very simple – the color of Drogon more likely associated with color or Balerion and with no link to Blackfyres.

Your point is that Drogon is clearly similar to Balerion. My point is we know almost nothing about Balerion. So what does that say about your point? It means we don't know much at all. I could easily be forgetting key details about Balerion, but from what I do remember, all we know is that he was absolutely huge, and black.. and probably quite ferocious. That's about it. He could've gone completely nuts on everyone and eaten half the royal family, or fought on one side of a Targaryen factional war. For anyone who says, "we'd know that if it happened," I remind you of events such as Summerhall and The Doom. It cannot be assumed that we, the readers, would know about it.

Thinking about this, I actually can't recall any red dragons mentioned at any point. Black, cream, silver, green (gold, maybe?). Someone else has probably paid closer attention to the colors.

But like I said, I don't think I'm really onto something here. It's just that a decent bit has been made of the dragon coloring before, there has to be a small chance this is foreshadowing beyond Drogon = Balerion (even if it has nothing to do with Blackfyres or whatnot). Because that's just too obvious and Martin is sneaky. Whenever George puts a reference in the text that seems obvious, I get suspicious that he's trying to set up something even bigger.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Dany floats in a pool at the top of a large pyramid in Meereen. Irri and Jhiqui come find her and say, "It is time." She dresses as a Ghis (in linen with veil and to'khar) and tells her servants to ready her silver to ride to the Pits of Daznakh, to watch the first set of matches in the reopened gladiator fighting pits.

The Sons of Ghis hate her rule in Meereen, and have promised a hundred virgin slaves to the person causing her death.

Initially, Dany had halted the practice of slave-fighting in Meereen. A contingent of Meereen gladiators (including Barseena, the most renowned female slave fighter; a fighter known as the "spotted cat"; Kroz; Gogor the Giant; and Belacqua the Bonebreaker) visited her and begged her to reopen the fighting pits. They pointed out that, as slaves, they were treated like princes, but as free men they are treated as paupers.

Dany's advisors in Meereen also urged her to reopen the fighting pits (so that she can earn income on the pits; so that she can regain the love of the citizens of Meereen; to reward the fighting slaves which were the first to revolt); only Missandei and Ser Barristan Selmy argued against reopening. Dany reluctantly agreed to allow the gladiator fights again.

Missandei asks Dany not to go to the fights. Dany argues that her people will cheer her, but Missandei says that they will only cheer the restart of the fighting.

As Dany descends from the eight-hundred-foot pyramid, she is greeted by two Meereenese, Skahaz and Roznakh. Skahaz, nicknamed "shave pate", is the head of the city watch; he was one of the first Meereenese to betray the Sons of Ghis. Roznakh is her urban seneschal.

Dany states her determination to ride to the pits, rather than be carried in a palanquin; Skahaz questions whether this is wise, but Roznakh says that Dany knows best.

Dany's dragons are growing, and there are many claims of sheep lost to her dragons; Dany has been compensating any sheepowners for lost sheep, but she begins to suspect that she is being cheated.

She worries about the city's finance. The city currently has plenty of food, but the surrounding countryside was burned and despoiled before she and her army arrived; no crops can be grown on that land. She hopes to encourage trade with the Lhazareen, but Meereen's economics were founded on the slave trade; they produce nothing of economic value to use as trade goods.

Barristan worries about Dany's safety at the pits, and encourages her to take a guard of Unsullied; Dany rejects that offer, instead choosing to rely on the animal-masked Meereen city watch. (The members of the city watch, half freed slaves and half "shave pates", wear bronze animal masks of bronze in order to remain anonymous; the slave masters threatened to harm the families of those cooperating with Dany.) The Unsullied were despised by the Mereenese as conquerors, and were killed when Dany attempted to use them as members of the watch.

Barristan is training forty young ex-slaves as Westerosi knights, though their training is incomplete.

Dany's bloodriders aren't in the city; Dany sent them to free the slaves of landowners outside the city (and to rally those landowners to her cause).

Dany and entourage (including Irri, Jhiqui, Roznakh, Skahaz, and Barristan) move towards the pits. The streets are crowded with people moving towards Daznakh's pits. A stalled palanquin blocks their progress; a bearer collapsed in the road. Dany sends someone to give the collapsed bearer water, and she questions whether freeing the slaves made any difference in their lives. Barristan points out that, if nothing else, the slaves are being paid, and there is no overseer whipping them through the streets.

At the blockage, Hisdar Zolareg (????) joins Dany. He is a key figure in the city, and both Roznakh and Skahaz say that, if Dany is to remain the leader of Meereen, she needs to keep Hisdar on her side. (Furthermore, he was mentioned as a possible husband for her.) After the slaves were freed, Hisdar bought up most of the slave pits for a pittance, and is now a tremendously wealthy man.

He brings news about a battle at the Horns of Hazdat, where Cleon, the "Butcher King" of Astipor, was fighting the Yunkai. The Yunkai have hired several sellsword companies, and are attempting to hire the Golden Company (who Viserys unsuccessfully attempted to hire into his service many years ago). [My notes are really unclear here -- I think there many be something that I missed.]

They arrive at the pits. Dany and company descend to the lowest level of the pits, which are stained red. She looks around at the citizens of Meereen who are out to watch the spectacle, including her main enemies the Zopal.

At the beginning of the fights, Hisdar introduces Dany. They can't pronounce her foreign name, so they cheer for "Missa" (the mother). Dany thinks to herself that she's not their mother, and that they love their fights, not her.

In the fights, the favorites (Kroz, the spotted cat) win their matches. After a host of minor matches, Barseena (the female fighter) is matched against a boar. Barseena is a crowd favorite and the most skilled female fighter, but she is gored and killed by the boar.

Dany gets up to leave in disgust, discarding her Meereen clothes, when a shadow appears across the sky. Drogon, her largest dragon, appears from above (Dany thinks that he's following her). He bathes the boar and Barseena in a blast of fire, and indiscriminately feeds on both charred bodies.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Dany floats in a pool at the top of a large pyramid in Meereen. Irri and Jhiqui come find her and say, "It is time." She dresses as a Ghis (in linen with veil and to'khar) and tells her servants to ready her silver to ride to the Pits of Daznakh, to watch the first set of matches in the reopened gladiator fighting pits.

The Sons of Ghis hate her rule in Meereen, and have promised a hundred virgin slaves to the person causing her death.

Initially, Dany had halted the practice of slave-fighting in Meereen. A contingent of Meereen gladiators (including Barseena, the most renowned female slave fighter; a fighter known as the "spotted cat"; Kroz; Gogor the Giant; and Belacqua the Bonebreaker) visited her and begged her to reopen the fighting pits. They pointed out that, as slaves, they were treated like princes, but as free men they are treated as paupers.

Dany's advisors in Meereen also urged her to reopen the fighting pits (so that she can earn income on the pits; so that she can regain the love of the citizens of Meereen; to reward the fighting slaves which were the first to revolt); only Missandei and Ser Barristan Selmy argued against reopening. Dany reluctantly agreed to allow the gladiator fights again.

Missandei asks Dany not to go to the fights. Dany argues that her people will cheer her, but Missandei says that they will only cheer the restart of the fighting.

As Dany descends from the eight-hundred-foot pyramid, she is greeted by two Meereenese, Skahaz and Roznakh. Skahaz, nicknamed "shave pate", is the head of the city watch; he was one of the first Meereenese to betray the Sons of Ghis. Roznakh is her urban seneschal.

Dany states her determination to ride to the pits, rather than be carried in a palanquin; Skahaz questions whether this is wise, but Roznakh says that Dany knows best.

Dany's dragons are growing, and there are many claims of sheep lost to her dragons; Dany has been compensating any sheepowners for lost sheep, but she begins to suspect that she is being cheated.

She worries about the city's finance. The city currently has plenty of food, but the surrounding countryside was burned and despoiled before she and her army arrived; no crops can be grown on that land. She hopes to encourage trade with the Lhazareen, but Meereen's economics were founded on the slave trade; they produce nothing of economic value to use as trade goods.

Barristan worries about Dany's safety at the pits, and encourages her to take a guard of Unsullied; Dany rejects that offer, instead choosing to rely on the animal-masked Meereen city watch. (The members of the city watch, half freed slaves and half "shave pates", wear bronze animal masks of bronze in order to remain anonymous; the slave masters threatened to harm the families of those cooperating with Dany.) The Unsullied were despised by the Mereenese as conquerors, and were killed when Dany attempted to use them as members of the watch.

Barristan is training forty young ex-slaves as Westerosi knights, though their training is incomplete.

Dany's bloodriders aren't in the city; Dany sent them to free the slaves of landowners outside the city (and to rally those landowners to her cause).

Dany and entourage (including Irri, Jhiqui, Roznakh, Skahaz, and Barristan) move towards the pits. The streets are crowded with people moving towards Daznakh's pits. A stalled palanquin blocks their progress; a bearer collapsed in the road. Dany sends someone to give the collapsed bearer water, and she questions whether freeing the slaves made any difference in their lives. Barristan points out that, if nothing else, the slaves are being paid, and there is no overseer whipping them through the streets.

At the blockage, Hisdar Zolareg (????) joins Dany. He is a key figure in the city, and both Roznakh and Skahaz say that, if Dany is to remain the leader of Meereen, she needs to keep Hisdar on her side. (Furthermore, he was mentioned as a possible husband for her.) After the slaves were freed, Hisdar bought up most of the slave pits for a pittance, and is now a tremendously wealthy man.

He brings news about a battle at the Horns of Hazdat, where Cleon, the "Butcher King" of Astipor, was fighting the Yunkai. The Yunkai have hired several sellsword companies, and are attempting to hire the Golden Company (who Viserys unsuccessfully attempted to hire into his service many years ago). [My notes are really unclear here -- I think there many be something that I missed.]

They arrive at the pits. Dany and company descend to the lowest level of the pits, which are stained red. She looks around at the citizens of Meereen who are out to watch the spectacle, including her main enemies the Zopal.

At the beginning of the fights, Hisdar introduces Dany. They can't pronounce her foreign name, so they cheer for "Missa" (the mother). Dany thinks to herself that she's not their mother, and that they love their fights, not her.

In the fights, the favorites (Kroz, the spotted cat) win their matches. After a host of minor matches, Barseena (the female fighter) is matched against a boar. Barseena is a crowd favorite and the most skilled female fighter, but she is gored and killed by the boar.

Dany gets up to leave in disgust, discarding her Meereen clothes, when a shadow appears across the sky. Drogon, her largest dragon, appears from above (Dany thinks that he's following her). He bathes the boar and Barseena in a blast of fire, and indiscriminately feeds on both charred bodies.

Hi im very new here , can someone just please tell me where to buy all these advance chapters please.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Hi im very new here , can someone just please tell me where to buy all these advance chapters please.

These chapter summaries are for the most part of chapters GRRM had been reading at conventions. They can't be bought.

There are some full ADwD chapters on the net though: A Tyrion, a Jon and a Dany chapter which GRRM rotates on his official site.

A "Reek" chapter: Reek

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Hi im very new here , can someone just please tell me where to buy all these advance chapters please.

You might be able to find this one if you scour the internet auction sites, maybe go to a con and search the dealer's room. It is a small booklet with three Dany chapters, one that's in the back of AFFC and two new ones that are summarized on this site.

Edit: crap, GRRM's website is weird when it gets to his cover art section. What I meant to link is in Song of Ice and Fire-->A Feast for Crows-->top row, far right, Bantam Spectra Limited Edition Excerpt, 2005 (US)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It strikes me that all this "learning to rule" will have been a major waste of time if she pops over to Westeros and does not end up ruling it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites