[ADWD] Brienne Collecting Jaime

[Ser Pistus]

UnCat was not introduced to disappear into nothing after two short appearances.

And Quentyn Martell? :D

[Hopeless]

What oath or vow do people think Brienne would be breaking if she does not give Jaimie to Cat? She swore to return Jaimie to KL. I'm pretty sure she swore to return the girls (I know Jaimie had to swear to be sure the Lannisters turned over the girls to Brienne). Of course, they were already gone so that couldn't be fulfilled. Brienne never promised to kill Jaimie or return him to Cat if the girls weren't found.

Or are people just saying that, since Brienne swore an oath of allegiance to Cat, she now has to do whatever Cat asks of her? Thinking of that, I just looked up where Brienne swore her oath to Cat, and she swears it under a clear condition -- that Cat not stop her from going after Stannis (because of Renly's death). So maybe if Cat tries to kill Brienne, thereby stopping her from being able to kill Stannis, Brienne's oath is no longer binding. So I'm going to guess Brienne's word was "Stannis".

I absolutely do not believe Brienne will betray Jaimie. She will, with him, continue trying to find the girls (she probably has a good idea of where Sansa is, and may soon become aware that Arya is supposedly in Winterfell). Her words to Jaimie in Dance were spoken in front of other people. When they are alone she will be honest with him. They'll have to rescue Pod and Hyle (if they're still alive). Maybe Brienne will convince Cat that she needs them to go after Stannis? I don't know, hard to imagine convincing Cat of anything.

[Alexia]

Brienne already knows that Arya is supposedly in Wintefell, because Jaime clued her in on the false Arya before she left KL.

[Hopeless]

Brienne already knows that Arya is supposedly in Wintefell, because Jaime clued her in on the false Arya before she left KL.

That's right, I forgot about that -- he told her specifically so she wouldn't go after the fake Arya.

[Faint]

I'm rather insistent that Brienne would have to stay with Catelyn, whatever may come, but most probably as a hostage so that Jaime will actually fulfill his mission. There is also to consider that there are no POVs with the Brotherhood Without Banners right now. Is everybody expecting the Frey revenge arc to occur off-screen?

[ItIsKnown]

I like the idea of Arya being sent to kill someone, though I always figured she'd be tasked with killing one of her family members.

If Sansa goes through with the Littlefinger plan and "comes out" as a Stark again, someone may decide to hire the Faceless? Although didn't one of them say they don't allow their assassins out on contracts to kill folks they knew personally before joining the temple? Although I do like the idea of Arya having to decide if she really wants to kill the sister she hated years ago.

[Kadence]

The thing about Jaime, is that him accompanying Brienne alone just because she told him Sansa's life was at stake - well, doesn't that by itself prove he was actually serious about the vow he made to Catelyn?

I mean if Jaime was this vile oathbreaker and wasn't trying to fulfill the vow to Catelyn, he would never accompany Brienne into some woods by himself, going into a confrontation with (supposedly) this evil murdering raping monster Sandor has become, for the sake of Sansa Stark. The very act that he showed up should be enough to prove his loyalty to helping the Stark girls. Sadly we know it won't be that easy. But Jaime will figure something out, he's using his brains now after all. Perhaps even an "I'll kill Cersei" oath?

As for Brienne, I don't think she's undead, I think she has to help them because Pod is a hostage. There was a thread how the original version of Brienne's last chapter was left in the Russian version and in it Pod was not present, clearly he was added to have her motivations make more sense. Without Pod hostage Brienne would never betray Jaime.

She'll probably try to act like Jaime's lawyer, I think. I expect Jaime to be pissed at the betrayal, calling her "wench", but eventually to forgive her and call her "wench" again but this time endearingly :)

[emmank]

If Sansa goes through with the Littlefinger plan and "comes out" as a Stark again, someone may decide to hire the Faceless? Although didn't one of them say they don't allow their assassins out on contracts to kill folks they knew personally before joining the temple? Although I do like the idea of Arya having to decide if she really wants to kill the sister she hated years ago.

I'm not sure why people keep suggesting Arya killing Sansa is plausible (and I'm not singling you out, ItIsKnown, lots of boarders have suggested this). If Arya really hated her, wouldn't Sansa have made The List? Doesn't she even say to Ned, "I don't hate her, not really" all the way back in AGoT? I suspect if they do meet again, they will both be crying with joy to see each other again. Bickering was for the summer.

And yes, it's clearly revealed that a FM cannot be given a kill assignment where the target is someone he/she knows, even a bit, which is the whole reason behind the sailors in AFfC making Arya repeat their names over and over again when they're on the way to Braavos. Arya can't be assigned to kill any of her former friends/enemies/family members, although I could see her hiding the fact that she knows someone on her list in order to be able to kill them.

[Golden Imp]

I think Un-Cat sent Brienne to go and get Jamie because Brienne said something that made Un-Cat change directions in her planning on revenge. Having Jamie killed for revenge is to straight forward for GRRM, he is going to throw a twist in this part of the plot.

[Daemon23]

It seems to me that Lady Stoneheart is allowing Brienne to prove her loyalty by sending her off to collect Jaime for hanging. If this is true, it seems very un-Brienne-like to allow Jaime to be killed, since she knows he has tried to keep to his promises to Catelyn as best he could. Is there any other possible reason she could be getting Jaime? What would Catelyn want with him other than to kill him?

Brienne was to take Jaime from Riverrun where he was a hostage and a captive of war to exchange for Lady Catelyn's daughters - a more than fair exchange of one capable knight and commander for two young noncombattants.

The exchange proved not to be possible. Ergo, Jaime is being returned to captivity. Sounds honorable to me.

Brienne's not dead - she just looks like hell. It has been a rough couple of months.

We'll have to see how this plays out, of course, but I would think we are closer to the end of Lady Stoneheart's story arc than to Jaime's.

[Sun]

[snip]

Brienne's not dead - she just looks like hell. It has been a rough couple of months.

We'll have to see how this plays out, of course, but I would think we are closer to the end of Lady Stoneheart's story arc than to Jaime's.

I agree.

[Faint]

The thing about Jaime, is that him accompanying Brienne alone just because she told him Sansa's life was at stake - well, doesn't that by itself prove he was actually serious about the vow he made to Catelyn?

I mean if Jaime was this vile oathbreaker and wasn't trying to fulfill the vow to Catelyn, he would never accompany Brienne into some woods by himself, going into a confrontation with (supposedly) this evil murdering raping monster Sandor has become, for the sake of Sansa Stark. The very act that he showed up should be enough to prove his loyalty to helping the Stark girls. Sadly we know it won't be that easy. But Jaime will figure something out, he's using his brains now after all. Perhaps even an "I'll kill Cersei" oath?

That was my assumption as well. I also think it gives clear evidence that Jaime trusts and cares enough about Brienne that he is willing to follow her alone. Which is why I think this is leading to Catelyn putting two and two together and actually having Jaime go off and try to find Sansa while she holds onto Brienne as insurance.

[FLight]

I'm not sure why people keep suggesting Arya killing Sansa is plausible (and I'm not singling you out, ItIsKnown, lots of boarders have suggested this). If Arya really hated her, wouldn't Sansa have made The List? Doesn't she even say to Ned, "I don't hate her, not really" all the way back in AGoT? I suspect if they do meet again, they will both be crying with joy to see each other again. Bickering was for the summer.

And yes, it's clearly revealed that a FM cannot be given a kill assignment where the target is someone he/she knows, even a bit, which is the whole reason behind the sailors in AFfC making Arya repeat their names over and over again when they're on the way to Braavos. Arya can't be assigned to kill any of her former friends/enemies/family members, although I could see her hiding the fact that she knows someone on her list in order to be able to kill them.

Arya knows Sansa Stark. She does not know Alayne Stone. I don't think there will be a confrontation between the two, really, but given that Arya thinks her entire family is dead and the living ones could be/are assuming false names (Alayne, Stoneheart)...

Also, it depends on how much you need to "know" a person. Like, there's a big debate about Jaqen and his motives (gone rogue or not) but he did offer to kill Joffrey in ACOK as per Arya's third death. Either he isn't bound by the same rules, or has gone rogue, or something else--but simply knowing a name doesn't mean a FM can't be sent on a mission to kill them. The sailors who gave her their names were specifically (or not. Depends on how you interpret) the ones who made sure to be on her good side with gifts, etc.

[Doughbelly]

I'm really hoping for an non depressing resolution of this cliffhanger. In my happy world, Brienne yelled, "Sword," and was cut down along with Pod. I suppose Hyde, too.

Then Brienne says she'll do one better than killing Jaime. She'll bring him to Stoneheart alive, of his own free will. That it and of itself should prove something.

I just don't see unCat seeing that way.

One way or another, I definitely don't see unCat sending Brienne to fetch or kill Jaime alone. As soon as he was out of the camp, he might have been taken by awaiting BwB. I just wish we knew Brienne's motivation for lying. Was her reason for wanting to get him out of the camp discretely so she could tell him the truth or so the BwB could take him unaware. Combination of both, maybe?

I don't think Jaime's story comes to an end here. We know he's been missing for weeks (months?). If he's not dead, then he's either captive or off on a quest trying to regain some of his honor. I really hope it's the latter.

[Dreamlife]

I thought Brienne's face was covered up with bandages because didn't she get her face bitten by Biter (?) in AFFC? I didn't think she was undead...but that is possible if Cat has inherited that ability to resurrect.

[pow]

Anyone entertained the idea that Sandor does actually have one of the girls (I guess it would have to be Sansa) like Brienne claims? I immediately wrote it off as a lie, but maybe not.... Or maybe it's someone she thinks is Sansa? I dunno. Not sure where that ends up going, just a question.

Sansa is with little finger. Arya was with Sandor. But now shes faceless.

[King Ned Stark]

Am I the only one who thinks Jaime needs to be truly and thoroughly hanged? Because that is my fervent wish I know it will not happen.

Because this, where no one gets to where they are going, and nothing happens the way it's supposed. GRRM has written Jaime out of trouble before, I'm sure he'll do it again.

[BoldAsYouPlease]

I thought Brienne's face was covered up with bandages because didn't she get her face bitten by Biter (?) in AFFC? I didn't think she was undead...but that is possible if Cat has inherited that ability to resurrect.

Her face wasn't even covered up by the bandage - Jaime sees enough of her face to think that she looks ten years older than when he last saw her. He asks about the bandage and Brienne replies that it was the result of a bite.

Also, I was under the impression that Beric Dondarrion's afterlife had ended when he resurrected Catelyn. Thoros had the gift as a red priest, but he refused to revive Catelyn because she was "three days dead". Beric did, "and the flame of life passed from him to her."

To me that sounds like whatever was animating Beric is now in Catelyn, and Beric is finally dead.

[Happy Ent]

What oath or vow do people think Brienne would be breaking if she does not give Jaimie to Cat?

This one:

Or are people just saying that, since Brienne swore an oath of allegiance to Cat, she now has to do whatever Cat asks of her?

It’s the only oath she swore, and in Feast she explicitly tells us that the oaths we swear to dead people are super-extra-special important. In particular, Brienne feels herself bound by that oath.

The events in Dance seem to confirm that theory. I had expected her to just cut Jaime down, as she was ordered. That’s what knights do.

[Podrick + Arya = Win]

Am I the only one who thinks Jaime needs to be truly and thoroughly hanged? Because that is my fervent wish I know it will not happen.

Because this, where no one gets to where they are going, and nothing happens the way it's supposed. GRRM has written Jaime out of trouble before, I'm sure he'll do it again.

You are not alone.