[ADWD] Brienne Collecting Jaime

[Ser Grifter]

This was the worst thing in the whole book to me, what a cheap way to re-introduce the Brienne arc :thumbsdown:

[Sun]

This was the worst thing in the whole book to me, what a cheap way to re-introduce the Brienne arc :thumbsdown:

I agree. A real shame. The whole conclusion of Jamie's chapter was precipitous and shoddy, and smacked more of episodic TV scripting than novel writing.

[Bastard of Godsgrace]

Another crazy theory occurs to me. UnCat frees Jaime and orders him to find Arya who she knows is in Braavos. Jaime goes there and now we have two possibilities. First, he finds Arya and it swiftly ends bad for him. Second and moe interesting possibility - he finds Sailor's Wife.

[Ser Pistus]

Am I the only one who thinks Jaime needs to be truly and thoroughly hanged?

For what?

[Podrick + Arya = Win]

Another crazy theory occurs to me. UnCat frees Jaime and orders him to find Arya who she knows is in Braavos. Jaime goes there and now we have two possibilities. First, he finds Arya and it swiftly ends bad for him. Second and moe interesting possibility - he finds Sailor's Wife.

I should think Jaime has more important matters to attend to (Arya) than a whore he last saw a decade ago?

[Jeejee]

Another crazy theory occurs to me. UnCat frees Jaime and orders him to find Arya who she knows is in Braavos. Jaime goes there and now we have two possibilities. First, he finds Arya and it swiftly ends bad for him. Second and moe interesting possibility - he finds Sailor's Wife.

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How would UnCat know Arya is in Braavos? Is she just assuming Arya somehow booked passage on that one galleas? Or perhaps hoping she stowed away? Because she has no reason to think Arya had money, and she knows the Hound didn't.

I can't imagine UnCat trusting Jaime enough to send him anywhere, unless it is with someone - maybe Brienne - as a chaperone. (That would be an interesting echo of their first travels together).

[Bastard of Godsgrace]

I should think Jaime has more important matters to attend to (Arya) than a whore he last saw a decade ago?

This whore is a wife of his brother, and her daughter may be considered an heir to Casterly Rock (depending how anuulliing marriage post factum works). It is only a crazy theory and I wouldn't put any money on it, but it might be the only way to possible reconciliation of Lannister brothers.

How would UnCat know Arya is in Braavos? Is she just assuming Arya somehow booked passage on that one galleas? Or perhaps hoping she stowed away? Because she has no reason to think Arya had money, and she knows the Hound didn't.

Well, Brienne knows she went to Salpans, and there was only one way out from there. OK, knows was possibly too strong at the moment, but it should be possible to find out. Not a big chance, ai I mentioned, but still possible.

[Hopeless]

Am I the only one who thinks Jaime needs to be truly and thoroughly hanged? Because that is my fervent wish I know it will not happen.

Because this, where no one gets to where they are going, and nothing happens the way it's supposed. GRRM has written Jaime out of trouble before, I'm sure he'll do it again.

I know pushing Bran was unforgivable, I know he should pay, but I just can't help being for him. I think he's undergone a change and is no longer the same person as he was. His evil was in the past, it won't be repeated, and no good (other than vengeance) would come of hanging him.

[eagleheart]

Another crazy theory occurs to me. UnCat frees Jaime and orders him to find Arya who she knows is in Braavos. Jaime goes there and now we have two possibilities. First, he finds Arya and it swiftly ends bad for him. Second and moe interesting possibility - he finds Sailor's Wife.

But not before meeting a mummer's company and helping them sell exotic shoes for three chapters. Then getting lost and going the wrong direction for two more chapters. Then doing nothing for four more chapters...

[nara]

Alexia, you seem to contradict yourself in your post. First Jaime is killable for you, then he has too many loose ends to be killed? I am not sure I follow. Your premise sems to be that all Lannisters must fall, which I see less and less as the books progress. Death has seldom been the ultimate punishment in the series (just look at Theon). Characters in need of redemption are given ample chances to do just that. When Cersei's arc in ADWD saw her utterly humiliated, but clearly set to survive her ordeal, it cemented the pattern for me. Add the 'dead' characters coming back to life in flocks, and you can see that since Ned, all POVs and many key non-POV have been quite safe. The only exceptions are Robb and Tywin.

If any of the Lannisters POV should die, it will be in the final 7th book showdown. Plus, the 'we will die together' of the twins is NOT a prophecy of any sorts, but an expression of their belief rooted in their love for each other. Which has disappeared completely of late. The last time Jaime thought of it was in ASOS, and Cersei in AFFC, IIRC.

Actually, in the Epilogue of DwD, Cersei still mentions her belief that Jaime would never leave the world without her. I think that this concept has been mentioned so many times that it will not play out that way. One will live and and one will die.

[nara]

I know pushing Bran was unforgivable, I know he should pay, but I just can't help being for him. I think he's undergone a change and is no longer the same person as he was. His evil was in the past, it won't be repeated, and no good (other than vengeance) would come of hanging him.

Well, hanging may be extreme, but I don't think Jaime is as reformed as HE thinks he is. He is so focused on doing the honorable thing and fulfilling his vow to Catelyn that he ends up doing a very dishonorable thing by abandoning Cersei. Granted, she probably deserves to die; but she is the mother of his children, they committed at least some of her crimes together (and Jaime's own account is that he usually initiated their encounters), and they've always promised each other to die together (so he should have at least tried to defend/support her). Although none of these things might be official vows, these commitments are just as key to his honor as the vow to Catelyn. He also is bound by official oath to protect Tommen (he's also bound by natural law as the boy's father) but leaves his duty to go with Brienne. His reason for following Brienne is honorable, but I think it's wiped out by his other gaps.

This situation reminds me a little of Ned Stark. Ned was so focused on the fact that Stannis was the "rightful heir" because the Baratheon kids are Jaime's children that he was pushing for a king that he hadn't seen is years and who, because of his obsession with Melissandre, would be horrible for the kingdom. Again, very focused on what is honorable (supporting the rightful heir) vs. what's right for the kingdom (a king that respects the local religion and can keep the peace).

[Matarreyes]

Actually, in the Epilogue of DwD, Cersei still mentions her belief that Jaime would never leave the world without her.

Does she? I thought she muses that she'd feel it if Jaime were dead.

[Matarreyes]

Double post

[nara]

Does she? I thought she muses that she'd feel it if Jaime were dead.

She does both. Didn't see anything in the rules against showing quotes, so here it is.

"If he were dead, I would know it. We came into this world together, Uncle. He would not go without me."

Of course, everything is up for interpretation in this book!

[Daemrion]

The Brienne/Jaime storyline for me was always a set up to show that honour-boundness was wrong. Sometimes the more moral choice is the choice that is least honourable, and the better man or woman is the person who sacrifices their personal honour for the moral good. I'd be totally disappointed if Brienne failed to learn that lesson.

[Matarreyes]

She does both. Didn't see anything in the rules against showing quotes, so here it is.

"If he were dead, I would know it. We came into this world together, Uncle. He would not go without me."

Of course, everything is up for interpretation in this book!

Thank you!

Cersei's saving grace, if any, is her love for her family. Hopefully, she will now be able to actually do some good by Tommen. On the other hand, if she ever learns that Jaime was off with Brienne while she was waiting for him and worrying about him, things will get ugly.

[grimslade]

The last two books have shown Jaime acting like--of all things--Tyrion. He's the only statesman left in Westeros, cleaning up his family's messes and trying to put the kingdom back together

[Kaitscralt]

Why do people assume Bran's vision has to involve all three people in it doing something at once? Prophecies and dreams in these books are always jumbled and jumpy, collages of images that switch quickly. Showing Sandor and Jaime with the menacing Gregor above always seemed to me like Bran was just seeing important players in the game, all on the enemies side (at one point or another, especially during GoT) and all menacing to a little boy.

I don't think it means that the three of them need to have a three-way fight.

[TomOSeven]

Why didn't Tom O Seven turn Jamie over to the Beric Dondarrion or at least transit a dagger through his eye when they were standing on the battlements of Riverrunn at the end of FFC?

That's been bugging me ever since. Weird GRR Descision top leave it alone...

[Lost Time]

Why didn't Tom O Seven turn Jamie over to the Beric Dondarrion or at least transit a dagger through his eye when they were standing on the battlements of Riverrunn at the end of FFC?

That's been bugging me ever since. Weird GRR Descision top leave it alone...

It'd probably interfere too much with their likely plan of taking back Riverrun from the Freys. Assassinating Jaime Lannister would bring too much wrath on them too soon and would screw up their infiltrations.