[ADWD] Brienne Collecting Jaime

[Selmy]

Brienne is driven by honor and her desire to be a knight.

She promised Catelyn she would deliver Jaime to KL and return the girls.

She also feels honorbound to Jaime for saving her like by coming back for her at Harrenhal.

I think she probably decided she owes a greater debt to Catelyn so she is returning him to Catelyn.

I think another trial by combat is going to take place, Brienne v Jaime, and Brienne is going to purposefully lose.

[Alexia]

People, if the BwB captures Jaime why would they give him a trial by battle? They didn't give Brienne a trial by battle. They didn't give that Frey a trial by battle. They just hanged them. Now, perhaps Stoneheart will send Jaime out after Sansa (doubtful, but possible) but no way in hell is she going to offer the Kingslayer a trial by battle. What did the BwB tell Merrett Frey when he tried to demand a trial again?

[Matarreyes]

I'm surprised that we're even debating whether these visions were prophecies or not. Dragons were stirring, for one, long before they were ever hatched. Also, these are visions that Bloodraven forced into Bran's mind and we know perfectly well that he has the capacity to see the past, at the least.

I am surprised as well, for all the opposite reasons. Bran and Bloodraven can see the past. Any mentions of seeing the future?

Also of note: why do people think Gregorstein lacks his head? His head is on his shoulders, all right. It was established that Cersei sent the dwarf's head to Dorne, not his. If Gregor has a head, the description from the dream does not apply.

[hi2u]

A massive suit of armor with no head is pure speculation? A had no idea these came in twos or more.

in the dream sequence it isn't specified that jaime has a head either. maybe he will get reanimated by qyburn too? ;)

[Faint]

It was established that Cersei sent the dwarf's head to Dorne, not his. If Gregor has a head, the description from the dream does not apply.

And by established I take it you mean this was not established at all or, perhaps, established only in your own mind because this idea certainly never made the pages of any of the books.

in the dream sequence it isn't specified that jaime has a head either. maybe he will get reanimated by qyburn too? ;)

So you figure that Bran just happened to note that the giant was headless but didn't bother when it came to Jaime?

Now, assuming, as it seems you do, that the golden figure in the vision was headless, do you not think it peculiar to refer to it as "beautiful"? Or did I miss the part where Bran's inordinate fetish for golden, headless figures was revealed?

[Ymladdych]

It seems to me that Bran's dream was a warning of his family's imminent peril, with just a touch of foreshadowing, but I don't think it was prophetic in a long-term sense.

Something I *do* see as prophetic would be Jaime's dream of Brienne while he rested with his head on a weirwood stump.

If I'm not mistaken, he and Brienne must stave off the angry shadows of people Jaime's wronged in his life, otherwise they'll claim him for the darkness. Just as the ghosts close in on them, the flame of Jaime's sword goes out, leaving Brienne alone to protect him from their vengeance.

My theory? Jaime's going to die, but Brienne will continue to fight for his redemption even if she's the one who snuffs his flame; that dream represents her battle to save his soul, not his life, and it's a sneak peek of what's waiting for him if she fails. Of note: Cersei, Tywin, and Joffrey are down there with him, but not his mother, Tommen, or Myrcella (the goodhearted Lannisters).

[Matarreyes]

And by established I take it you mean this was not established at all or, perhaps, established only in your own mind because this idea certainly never made the pages of any of the books.

By established I mean as established as the Frey pie in ADWD. Read more carefully and between the lines. Failing that, come to the boards and read some threads in AFFC forums.

[Captain Tripps]

Isn't Sandor dead and buried tho? Hows he holding anybody.

[Faint]

Read more carefully and between the lines.

But not the lines themselves, I take it. What you're actually describing is speculation -- so at least now you've familiarized yourself with the word.

[Flea Bottom's Up!]

Isn't Sandor dead and buried tho? Hows he holding anybody.

The theory is that a certain muscular gravedigger seen briefly out of the pov eye is Sandor.

[Matarreyes]

But not the lines themselves, I take it. What you're actually describing is speculation -- so at least now you've familiarized yourself with the word.

Are you being deliberately rude, or are you fancying yourself as being funny? In any case, consider our conversation to be over until you cool off a little bit.

[Bumble Bee]

If the BWB captures Jaime they would hang him. They would hang anyone even remotely connected to the Lannister, Freys etc. reguardless of innocence or guilty. The crime for which lady stoneheart wants Jaime is not keeping up his end of the bargain and releasing her daughters for which Jaime cannot be blamed because they were both gone by the time he reached Kings Landing. But of course Ladystone heart has way of knowing the truth of this and cares nothing about actual guilt or innocence all she wants is venegence. It was probably her people who murdered Big Walder in Winterfell. (or was it Little Walder?)

[Ygritte's fur]

I am with Sualk about Robert Strong. And I don't see how or why Cersei would send a dwarf head to Dorne in an effort to prove Gregor was in fact dead. Granted I haven't read any discussions about it, but I did not see that in the text. Nor does it make sense to me.

As for Brienne/Jaime, their storyline is one of my favorites. Which surprised me! I love Jaime's story arc. Anyhoo. I cannot believe Brienne would willingly agree to fetch Jaime, even to save herself. I think whatever she yelled had to do with one of her daughters. But how this got her back to Jaime I can't imagine.

I am hoping she was cut down before dying vs UnBrienne-ed.

[estrellas]

Now I wonder: it's rather well-known that "Arya Stark" has been trundled off to marry Ramsay. I'm going to guess that Stoneheart will blame Jaime, if only for his being a Lannister and thus a part of the whole scheme. I'm losing more hope in unCat somehow... "letting" Jaime go, in any way.

She knows that it wasn't Arya they sent north, because she knows Arya was traveling with the Hound and they suspect she took a boat in Saltpans. It might just serve to make her angrier, though, because Jaime promised her Arya but never had her to begin with.

[Podrick + Arya = Win]

People, if the BwB captures Jaime why would they give him a trial by battle? They didn't give Brienne a trial by battle. They didn't give that Frey a trial by battle. They just hanged them. Now, perhaps Stoneheart will send Jaime out after Sansa (doubtful, but possible) but no way in hell is she going to offer the Kingslayer a trial by battle. What did the BwB tell Merrett Frey when he tried to demand a trial again?

If this happens, I may as well start laughing now. Can Stoneheart please just off Brienne and Jaime and Ser Hyle and let Pod live?

According to this, only Arianne, Damphair, and Sansa have been confirmed so far.

Oh, well, I may as well start despairing now. Arianne is OK but both Aeron and Sansa? God have mercy.

[Lord Godric]

I have always expected Brienne's storyline to go in this direction. I imagine that Catelyn, knowing how much swearing an oath means to Brienne, forced Brienne to swear an oath to collect Jaime and return him to face his death. I think, however, by the time we get another Brienne PoV we will see her internal struggle of keeping her oath or protecting Jaime, who she clearly is infatuated with at this point. And I expect she'll do the latter.

[emmank]

I have always expected Brienne's storyline to go in this direction. I imagine that Catelyn, knowing how much swearing an oath means to Brienne, forced Brienne to swear an oath to collect Jaime and return him to face his death. I think, however, by the time we get another Brienne PoV we will see her internal struggle of keeping her oath or protecting Jaime, who she clearly is infatuated with at this point. And I expect she'll do the latter.

I think you're right. We also have to keep in mind Martin's style - it seems to me that we are meant to feel very afraid for Jaime, especially because Brienne spouts off that lie about the Hound. It's a carefully crafted cliffhanger to make us feel afraid for him. My gut feeling is that Brienne's got another plan, or will by the time we're in her POV again.

[hi2u]

I think you're right. We also have to keep in mind Martin's style - it seems to me that we are meant to feel very afraid for Jaime, especially because Brienne spouts off that lie about the Hound. It's a carefully crafted cliffhanger to make us feel afraid for him. My gut feeling is that Brienne's got another plan, or will by the time we're in her POV again.

bingo. my thoughts exactly.

also a thought to the people who thought that cat would send off jaime so we could have brienne as a BwB pov? jaime could possibly be that pov, too :P

[ultima]

I think GRRM has made this complicated. Its unlikely that Brienne would anything dishonorable as the character was shaped up that way. And what had happened while she was hanging and supposed to have screamed something! Hope the next book throws some light on this! Brienne is someone who would sacrifice herself rather than get someone innocent to get killed. She wont certainly throw Jamie's life this way, she got nothing to gain. There must be some other twist in this or Brienne has become undead now!

But even why not just kill Jamie instead of dragging him off!

[Puck6275]

I think GRRM has made this complicated. Its unlikely that Brienne would anything dishonorable as the character was shaped up that way. And what had happened while she was hanging and supposed to have screamed something! Hope the next book throws some light on this! Brienne is someone who would sacrifice herself rather than get someone innocent to get killed. She wont certainly throw Jamie's life this way, she got nothing to gain. There must be some other twist in this or Brienne has become undead now!

But even why not just kill Jamie instead of dragging him off!

Can you name anyone more innocent then Podrick Payne? Cast off by his family he is forced to become the Imps Squire, who then leaves him. Nothing more then a boy caught up in the big ugly mess and was about to die for it. He was being hung, same as Brienne, and because Bre choose not to kill Jamie.

Jamie on the other hand...well call him what you will be it noble vile heroic or misunderstood 'Innocent' is not a word anyone can attach to Jamie Lannister. His first act in the series is throwing Bran out a window. He then procedes to slaughter how many Stark guardsmen, including the Noble Jory for a crime none of them commitied. Even if you say he has redeamed himself he is still not innocent of his past crimes.

When it comes down to it the Noble Brienne, caught between her oath to lady Stark, the lives of Podrick Payne and Ser Hyle Hunt, and the Death of the the Kingslayer. To say that killing jamie is against Brienne's honour is simply not true. In the situation it is the only thing she can do that would be IN character.

that being said I don't think she will go through with it, or she has some plan. But it's clear even if she did it would not be a break of characterization.