The Official Cersei Lannister Appreciation thread

[ipsuel]

I love, love, love me some Cersei! She has always been one of my favorites! That doesn't mean I don't think she's bat-sh*t crazy, but I love it!

I much, much, (MUCH!) prefer her chapters to Dany's (in all books but GoT). The Lanisters are my fave overall, as far as enjoyment of reading goes. Yes, the others are necessary and more pivotal (in most cases) but for sheer enjoyment of a chapter -- Cersei may even be my number one choice.

[The Storm Queen]

Cersei and Matrix have one thing in common for me: I pretend that only the first film (or the first three books) exist.

I loved her in the earlier books: She was growing up in a highly abusive family where sexualized violence against women seem to be considered completly normal and then was married to a man who...well considers spousal rape and abuse to be completly acceptable. Yet Cersei bears this things with a certain pride and dignity I cannot cease to admire. Is she ruthless? Yes. Is she only loyal to few persons? Yes. Is she often too impulsive? You bet.

Often people compare her to Oleanna or Dany in order to emphasize that there are other ways for a woman to deal with the misogynic restrictions Westeros places on females. But I love the fact that Cersei does not try to gain the love of her savage husband like Dany does or manipulate the males in her family á la Oleanna. She wants to have the same power as men and articulates it openly! Sadly nothing in her Tywinesque upbringing offered her a broader perspective on the matter. She is able to identify herself as oppressed but is missing the broader aspects of that problem which in turn leads her to become abusive towards other women like Sansa or Lollys.

I´d loved to read AFfC with a better written Cersei POV where she is still ruthless, cold-blooded, mabe even a bit paranoid but also relatable like in the earlier novel and at least with half of the brains she used to have, She never was a Varys, sure but also not the lobotimed train wreck we ecountered in AFFC.

[Alexia]

I approve of this thread. In AGOT-ASOS, Cersei was *the* best villain and one of the best characters. She rocks. From her petty spite at deciding to have Sansa killed if they lost the city during the battle, to how she owned Ned Stark, to her paying Robert back in his own coin, to her intentions for those nasty septas in charge of her in ADWD, she is awesome.

I love Cersei. I don't wish for her to succeed against the Starks, but I do support her to succeed against everyone else. And right now I want her to have the Sept of Baelor and Flea Bottom burnt to the ground, and the ashes sown over with salt, and to see her get revenge on the Tyrells.

However, one of my favorite things Cersei did? Having her children carry quartered arms with the sigil of her House. Jon Snow thinks it is uppity and arrogant. I think it makes her rock!

[Queen Cersei I]

Since I'm obviously not objective on this subject, I'm mostly just going to avoid it. No one needs to here more rantings from me about how Cersei's actions in AFFC were out of character, how she is frequently denied the evil grandeur that her male conterparts (Gregor Clegane, Littlefinger, Ramsay Bolton) are given. Or how she seems to be subjected to a series of sexual humiliations that no male villain has yet been treated to.

No, instead I'll just sum up my feelings in regards to Cersei with a quote from Aldous Huxley's Point Counter Point.:

"The woman is obviously a force. You may no like that kind of force. But you can't help admiring the force in itself. It's like Niagara."

He is talking about Lucy Tantamont, the notorious femme fatalle of the story. But for me, it sums up the intangible thing that I half like about Cersei, despite her misdeeds in AFFC....

[Chalais]

All Hail Her Grace Queen Cersei Lannister the First of Her Name!!!

She is one of my favorite characters from the series, seriously who doesn't love a mentally unstable hot chick who likes to bang her brother?

[salt]

I have to disagree that Cersei's actions in AFFC were out of character. From one of the earliest conversation she has with Jaime near the beginning of AGOT we see her wondering about Ned Stark's intentions, overestimating his affinity for intrigue and completely misjudging his motivation for coming to Kings Landing. In her mind, the most honorable and genuine man in the series is a scheming, crafty villain, hungry for the power of Hand of the King so he can ruin Cersei's life. Its the exact same fiery suspicion with which she views Margery and so many other characters in AFFC.

The only difference in Feast is that there is no one left to hold her back or be a counterweight to he power, and the murder of her son and father help to push her over the edge.

[The Sleeper]

I have to disagree that Cersei's actions in AFFC were out of character. From one of the earliest conversation she has with Jaime near the beginning of AGOT we see her wondering about Ned Stark's intentions, overestimating his affinity for intrigue and completely misjudging his motivation for coming to Kings Landing. In her mind, the most honorable and genuine man in the series is a scheming, crafty villain, hungry for the power of Hand of the King so he can ruin Cersei's life. Its the exact same fiery suspicion with which she views Margery and so many other characters in AFFC.

The only difference in Feast is that there is no one left to hold her back or be a counterweight to he power, and the murder of her son and father help to push her over the edge.

Yes, I thought so too at first but if you consider Joffry's murder and the fact that she had capable advisor's in AGot it makes perfect sense that she mucks it all up in AFfC. She simply wasn't the one behind it all, she simply was the figurehead. She didn't do Ned in, Littlefinger did and after Catelyn told him to trust him. Don't forget how Tyrion totally owned her ass in CoK. That's probably where her paranoia started. She refuses to recognise the fact that it's only because of the Tyrell's that Tommen's still on the Throne and that she's their little bitch now. I hope she wises up a bit, otherwise she won't last another five minutes and I want to see her suffer. There are so many people that I want to see kll her, but I believe the best choice would be for her to end up in Qybern's hands.

[The Bloody Boar]

Cersei and Matrix have one thing in common for me: I pretend that only the first film (or the first three books) exist.

I loved her in the earlier books: She was growing up in a highly abusive family where sexualized violence against women seem to be considered completly normal and then was married to a man who...well considers spousal rape and abuse to be completly acceptable. Yet Cersei bears this things with a certain pride and dignity I cannot cease to admire. Is she ruthless? Yes. Is she only loyal to few persons? Yes. Is she often too impulsive? You bet.

Is she vindictive enough to slaughter Robert's bastards even when they're just babies? You bet.

But I agree with your post, I had to admire her in AGOT and even in ACOK. AFFC was a travesty.

[Der Anarch]

I don't think she was that stupid in Feast for Crows. The decision to rearm the faith seemed quite clever to me at first. What better way to divert what was a subversive social movement into an asset than by giving them weapons and sending them off in the direction of the enemy? It's what It was more that the High Specton was cleverer (or perhaps, more fanatical) than she expected. If she'd had a bit more training and better advisers, and been more mentally stable she could have pulled it off.

[Roose Seal]

In Feast she surrounded herself with a council of imbeciles and/or traitors (I'm one who believes Aurane was a traitor from the beginning) because she was too proud to let anyone give her actual good counsel.

I still find her change of character in Feast perfectly understandable. Did I like 1-3 Cersei better ? Sure. But did it make sense that she became what she became ? Totally. It's not like she suddenly turned from Chaotic Evil into Lawful good.

In my mind she was a Neutral Evil in 1-3 then turned to Chaotic Evil in Feast, because no one was there to contain her.

[The Sleeper]

Making good decisions is as much about character and state of mind as it is about brains. Her vanity and paranoia make it impossible for her to actually be an effective rulrer. As for her decsion to rearm the Faith, the Hifh Septon played her like a fiddle and with one stroke she created an uncontrollable army of fanatics. Probably one of the worst decisions ever made in the history of the Seven Kingdoms.

Her biggest flaw is her entitlement. She refuses to realize that she has noone whose loyalty is primarily to her except the Lannister forces who are much depleted and I doubt that even they are as loyal to her as they were to Tywin. The Tyrell's went to her cause for a very specific price: to get piece of the action. She believes that they are doing the exact same thing she did with Robert and she's right but she doesn't have a choice. Her attempt to frame Margery is nothing sort of suicidal.

[cheplu]

It's funny cause she played the game of thrones almost flawlessly for three books, but after Jof died she became one of the weakest players.

I think it was Littlefinger playing for her in the first 3 books. When he abandons her, we see that she is not so good...

[Agromono]

Someone in 1-3 says that she wanted power, but didn't know how to wield it - I definitely agree with that. But there's no denying that within the first few books she was wonderful at being evil. Her and Jaime, for however long we had them as villains, were great. I kind of feel that AFfC was her "well, we're here... now what?" kind of moment. Her inability to rule well probably stemmed from the fact that Tywin never taught her how to rule, and that stemmed from the fact that she was born a girl. Her final chapter in ADwD, though, was amazing. Her sheer determination and perseverance: she stopped at nothing just to see her son again. That was powerful.

[Der Anarch]

Some people are brilliant at gaining power but rubbish rulers. Observe Mussolini's rise to power without any knowledge of world war two, and you'll call him a political genius (which at the time most people did). Observe Mussolini's actions after 1938 without any knowledge of his rise to power, and you'll call him a utter buffoon.

[Queen Cersei I]

Oh please. If I were Jaime, I'd be in the corner of this thread lamenting about Lancel and Osmund Kettleblack (and Moon Boy, for all I know) instead of singing her praises. :P

Yes, and for damn good reason! There’s nothing that says “moral turnaround” like abandoning the mother of your children to death out of petty sexual jealousy!

Or else, Jaime could have, you know, found some way to save Cersei, just as he did with Tyrion, whom (he believes) actually murdered his child. Cersei just cheated on him. Oh well... I guess it’s all a matter of priorities.

At any rate, Cersei is evil! And Jaime is good! And he had no other choice!

Or—just maybe—he could have gone back, used his considerable power and cunning to save her, then proceeded to take her to Casterly Rock and lock her up so she couldn’t hurt anyone else. Then he could go and start a relationship with some other lady like a secure, well adjusted man would. But I guess most secure, well-adjusted men don’t sleep with their sisters, so…

But at least, unlike some other Lannister men, Jaime is interested in having consensual sex with his sister… rather than, you know, RAPING HER.

The fact that Tyrion and Jaime are frequently touted as “the good ones” says a lot about just how much Cersei is demonized.

[Alexia]

The fact that Tyrion and Jaime are frequently touted as “the good ones” says a lot about just how much Cersei is demonized.

There is very little difference between Cersei and Tyrion in particular, quite frankly, beyond the fact that Tyrion is a more competent ruler than Cersei. Really, all three of the Lannister siblings are nasty pieces of work. Thoroughly enjoyable nasty pieces of work, but none of them has any sort of moral superiority to the others.

[kephv]

Yes, and for damn good reason! There’s nothing that says “moral turnaround” like abandoning the mother of your children to death out of petty sexual jealousy!

There was nothing petty about it. Her infidelity was obviously a big deal to him. Also, don't forget it was first Cersei who wanted to rid herself of Jaime. And it wasn't just jealousy so much as he came to see Cersei for what she was, and renounced her.

Cersei just cheated on him. Oh well... I guess it’s all a matter of priorities.

She cheated on him, lied to him, showed him what a horrible ruler and person she was, and then sent him off because she wanted him gone. She all but treated him as if he was nothing to her anymore. I guess he should've been thankful for that.

The fact that Tyrion and Jaime are frequently touted as “the good ones” says a lot about just how much Cersei is demonized.

Not unfairly though or anything...

[Alexia]

There was nothing petty about it. Her infidelity was obviously a big deal to him. Also, don't forget it was first Cersei who wanted to rid herself of Jaime. And it wasn't just jealousy so much as he came to see Cersei for what she was, and renounced her.

Cersei became alienated from him because he lost his damn mind and wanted to get them all killed by marrying her.

She cheated on him, lied to him, showed him what a horrible ruler and person she was, and then sent him off because she wanted him gone...

Because Jaime is a good ruler and a wonderful person? :lmao:

This man was willing to cut off a nine-year old girl's hand. This man threw a seven year old child from a window. To claim that Jaime only just learned that she is a horrible person is hilarious. What, he didn't figure that out when she wanted a little kid's hand cut off? Cersei was mind-controlling him and he just broke free of her nefarious control?

Jaime is in a funk because of his sexual jealousy. He didn't just learn how awful Cersei is. He's pissed because she had sex with Lancel. Jaime didn't come to see Cersei for what she is (unless he is a goddamned idiot under mind-control, poor baby) -- he is throwing a temper tantrum because she had sex with other men (and considering that she was another man's wife, it is hilarious).

[kephv]

Cersei became alienated from him because he lost his damn mind and wanted to get them all killed by marrying her.

She became alienated from him because he wouldn't support her and she could no longer use him to do her bidding. That's why she saw him as useless and wanted him gone.

Because Jaime is a good ruler and a wonderful person?

Irrelevant. Jaime wasn't in the position of power, Cersei was. And yes, his decision was influenced by that, as he clearly didn't agree with how she was running things. He also was thinking about getting Tommen away from her before she destroyed him like she did Joff.

This man was willing to cut off a nine-year old girl's hand. This man threw a seven year old child from a window. To claim that Jaime only just learned that she is a horrible person is hilarious. What, he didn't figure that out when she wanted a little kid's hand cut off? Cersei was mind-controlling him and he just broke free of her nefarious control?

Good thing I never claimed that then. And yes, he was under her influence - so to speak - before. "The things I do for love" says it all. After he found out what a lying, cheating sneak she was, he moved passed that. By rejecting her, he was not only saying he didn't agree with her, but breaking away from her poison influence as well.

Jaime is in a funk because of his sexual jealousy. He didn't just learn how awful Cersei is. He's pissed because she had sex with Lancel. Jaime didn't come to see Cersei for what she is (unless he is a goddamned idiot under mind-control, poor baby) -- he is throwing a temper tantrum because she had sex with other men (and considering that she was another man's wife, it is hilarious).

You're right. He knew who she was all along but he obvoiusly didn't care because he loved her. But he took his Cersei blinders off and did what he probably should've done a while ago - which, as I explained, was more than just Jaime feeling jealous.

Also, it's not hilarious if you consider their relationship is anything but normal. While he obvoiusly knew she was married, I'm sure there was a tacit agreement between them to stay faithful to one another, and her breaking that would be akin, for them, to cheating. Clearly Cersei is concerned about that too as shown when she thinks about Jaime going off with Brienne (obviously she doesn't care too much though considering the person he went with).

[ZacharyB]

General observation: Mention the name Jamie Lannister, and the same bloody argument shows up in every single thread. It's pretty much the same for all the Lannister siblings too, actually.

The title is "The Official Cersei Lannister Appreciation thread" not "HI WE LOVE CERSEI LETS BASH ON JAMIE HAHAH HE'S SUCH AN EGOISTIC PIG."