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House Army numbers?

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What do you think the number of soldiers that can be field by each great house would be? At the start of the series not after everything went to hell. For example the Tullys had the majority of their strength destroyed quickly by the Lannisters. Here is a rundown of what I am asking

Stark (North)

Lannister (Westerlands)

Baratheon (Stormlands AND Crownlands)

Tyrell (Reach)

Tully (RIverlands)

Arryn (Vale)

Martell (Dorne)

Greyjoy (Iron Islands)

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This is a topic that has been discussed a number of times before.

On the other hand, it is pretty much my favourite topic of all - along with the related topic of the population sizes of the various regions.

So I don't mind giving my opinion on this again - in the hope that it revives the debate and evolves into another 20 page thread on the topic.

To answer you - these are full potential strength, and not current strength:

Stark - 50,000

Lannister - 50,000

Baratheon - 35,000

Tyrell - 90,000

Tully - 40,000

Arryn - 40,000

Martell - 30,000

Greyjoy - 25,000

That's a rough guess, but bottomline is the Reach, North and Westerlands are top of the pile, while the Iron Islands, Dorne and the Stormlands make up the bottom three. The Vale and the Riverlands fall in the middle.

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What leads to believe the Iron Islands can support such numbers? I would never have guessed they were almost as strong as Dorne or the Stormlands.

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My opinion after reading and participating in the various forums is that we really lack the information to make a guess about it. Even if we can put a number on it it still doesn't factor in training, equipment, whether the troops are mounted, etc. Another thing to keep in mind is that Iron Islanders would make better sailors, the Dornish would fight better in a desert, etc.

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What leads to believe the Iron Islands can support such numbers? I would never have guessed they were almost as strong as Dorne or the Stormlands.

More people have martial skills in backwarded societies.

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Stark numbers definitely too high. After losing the original army of 20,000, most Stark bannermen were described in ADWD as scraping the bottom of the manpower barrel.

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Another one of these.

Free Northmans Stark and Lannister numbers may be a bit low, imho they are somewhere between 50,000 and 60,000 both. Baratheon should be around 30,000, Tyrell around 70,000 and maybe the Greyjoys have another 5,000-10,000 guys. But after all, that are only minor differences.

@ Ser Wun Wun

The Iron Islands can field 100 ships in the Iron Fleet, each with 100-150 soldiers, and 300-900 longships estimated at 30 each, putting them between 19,000 and 42,000.

@ Grumpy Midget

The Starks have currently 12,000 guys running around Winterfell, crew for 50 warships and more heavy horse than anybody else (read: Boltons) in White Harbor, making way beyond 20,000 additional men. With just five out of fifteen to twenty Lords counted. Their problem is time and space. Getting their soldiers out of a small village 500 miles through rugged county from the next rookery takes literally months. And the guys scraping the barrels are the poor Lords in the northern North who commited a very large part to Robb while the Lords in the fat south kept more back, Reed, Manderley, Dustin, for example.

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These are the types of things that I want to know just as badly as things like the TOJ and the Doom. While GRRM surely needs to do a big reveal with events like those, come on George, I want to know how many people live Lannisport!

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300-900 longships, seriously? That seems really high, what are you basing that on?

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300-900 longships, seriously? That seems really high, what are you basing that on?

The Tyrells beleive they have a 1,000 ships and I beleive it is actually confirmed in the last Victorian chapter if AFFC. What we don't know is how many people actually man these ships. Some of the oarsmen are actually thralls, men taken during raids and forced to serve.

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Yeah, but I figured the Tyrell's were just inflating that number, exaggerating the threat, etc..

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Yeah, but I figured the Tyrell's were just inflating that number, exaggerating the threat, etc..

When Euron is discussing sneding ships to Danerys with his Captians after they have taken the Sheilds, they calculate their own strength at around a 1,000 ships. I don't know where in the hell all these ships came from but I don't see why they would lie to themselves.

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When Euron is discussing sneding ships to Danerys with his Captians after they have taken the Sheilds, they calculate their own strength at around a 1,000 ships. I don't know where in the hell all these ships came from but I don't see why they would lie to themselves.

Ah well, I certainly don't remember that part, but I'll take your word for it. I just never came away with the impression that the Ironborn were so powerful, a thousand ships is nothing to scoff at. I wonder why Robert let them keep such a large fleet after he put down their rebellion.

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Why am I not surprised Free Northman likes this topic? Of course we disagree on the number of troops in the North. But we have already had this debate. Albeit unfinished, I'll still let others take the reins on this.

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Here's a way of looking at it besides numbers:

Stark: Large fierce army, but takes forever to mobilize. Highly defendable homeland. Basically Russia.

Tully: Decent size army, but geographically disadvantaged.

Arryn: Highly professional army of decent size + defendable homeland.

Lannister: Defendable homeland + Large professional army.

Tyrell: Massive army, but weaker troops and poorer commanders (except for Tarly).

Baratheon: Small army.

Martell: Small army, but highly defendable home turf.

Greyjoy: Negligible army, but a mighty fleet.

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Stark - 50,000

Lannister - 50,000

Baratheon - 35,000

Tyrell - 90,000

Tully - 40,000

Arryn - 40,000

Martell - 30,000

Greyjoy - 25,000

These are the numbers given at the beginning of the thread. I'm going to do a bit of anayalsing here.

Stark I would putat 40 000, not 50 000. Mayb 45 000. House Umber, Karstark, and many others are at the bottom of the barrel for men, oncluding the 18000 Robb sent South,and the 11 000 Northmen (1000 are Stannis' own). So with both of those, there is no real force left in the North asides Manderlys.

Lannister i put at 40 000 men or so. Jaime had a host of 12000, Tywin had 15000, and Stafford sarped the barrel for 10 000. The thing is Tywin can afford to hire a good deal of mercenaries and free riders so his numbers can be inflated by non-westerlands men.

Baratheon is about right, either way. Maybe a tiny bit of inflation but that's intuition, not fact.

Tyrell I would give 100 000, including the Redwyne Fleet. Oldtown alone is a powerful force in it's own right.

Tully I'd argue for 30 000, but thats again more intuition, and including Edmure's army to face Tywin of 11 000. Losses accepting, 40 000 would yield a few more survivors I would think.

Arryn, Again, more for 30 000. The Lords Declarent had a popular force in the Vale and boasted of 20 000, and that did not include Gulltown. Guessing again.

Martell, based on my guessing, I'd guess 20 000. Half of which could be considered their offensive army, half their home army.

Gryejoy sounds right, and 1000 ships I doubt they could raise, even with the Victarion POV.

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Stark forces could also be supplemented by additional wildling forces now. IF/WHEN the situation stabilises, I'm sure many of the wildlings would make their own "Houses" in the Gift and would/could help Jon/any Stark in a war, possibly. I know it is a stretch, but I think many could follow the Thenns (who are more civilised though) and integrates well, just with their own customs.

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I think the Starks could field about 50000 pre-A Game of Thrones, if they scrape the bottom of the barrel. The mountain clans (3000 joined Stannis in no time and they likely kept many to guard against the Wildlings), crannogmen, and Skagosi didn't really participate in the War of the Five Kings. Many houses held men back. Rodrick raised 2000 men in no time, the Karstarks had at least a 1000, Bastard Bolton had his own little force, and White Harbor and Barrowton both held many men back and being the two largest population centers in the North likely could field quite a force. I'm sure every house had more they could throw out, albeit many of them would be boys and old men.

The strategy of the north is to place a few thousand men in Moat Cailin and then muster your entire army, which will take a while.

Also, if someone like Jon was in charge, the North could probably count the Wildlings.

I think it was mentioned in the books at some point that Dorne has the smallest force. Though, I'd be surprised if it wasn't the Iron Islands.

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