The Mountain That Flies Posted October 31, 2012 Share Posted October 31, 2012 While prophecies do play an important part in the overall story, I can't help but think that there is no actual AA, and that the savior against the Other's will be a group of people.Dany (and specifically her dragons) will be a huge help, but there's no way it will be as easy as them just flying in and roasting everything. Jon (assuming he is alive, after all) will be in no condition to lead or fight anyone for a while, so how he'll recover and what he'll be doing is extremely difficult to predict. Jaime (again, assuming he lives through Stoneheart) will be probably be the rallying person for most of the south. Stannis may well wind up as the new Night's King, Euron may try and just kill everyone, and Tyrion, Sansa, Arya, and Bran could have any number of effects.I would extremely surprised if Martin spent all these years developing a deeply ensemble story just for one person to show up and save the day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lion of Judah Posted October 31, 2012 Share Posted October 31, 2012 Dani is the hero of FireJon is the hero of IceAgreed, I always believed there had to be a balance and not one over the other. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R'hllor's Bastard Posted October 31, 2012 Share Posted October 31, 2012 I quite prepared for a grey "solution" to this matter, meaning the books will end and we will still have threads debating who AA was. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dragon has three heads Posted October 31, 2012 Share Posted October 31, 2012 She as the AA is a red herring, just like the White Walkers are a red herring. It doesnt mean she isnt important, but she will not be the Queen who will unite the country and save the day.Sorry what?WW are a red herring for what? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Butler of Tarth Posted October 31, 2012 Share Posted October 31, 2012 Well, knowing GRRM's treatment of typical fantasy tropes I will be VERY surprised if AA and/or TPTWP turn out to be a single individual with an awesome sword.Personally I'm a fan of 'NW is Lightbringer' theory.I also like the concept R'hllor's Bastard suggested - and actually hope that we're not getting answers to ALL of our questions by the end. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shk12344 Posted October 31, 2012 Share Posted October 31, 2012 Yeah, I think Dany is red herring in terms of her being AA. GRRM does this kind of thing through out the book to keep the readers on their toes, such as suggesting Tyrion may be Targaryean or Wylla/fisherman's daughter could be Jon's true mother.In my view Jon and only Jon can be AA/TPTWP. R + J is important because it's going to produce the savior of Westoros. So you can't have the product of that affair, Jon Snow, relegated to spending his life as some obscure warrior-monk. All signs points to him becoming all-powerful leader. After all he's already at the wall and have become Lord Commander and de facto leader of wildlings. It's only matter of time when Jon will take control of Stannis's army and bannerman who have been loyal to Starks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
total1402 Posted October 31, 2012 Author Share Posted October 31, 2012 Yeah, I think Dany is red herring in terms of her being AA. GRRM does this kind of thing through out the book to keep the readers on their toes, such as suggesting Tyrion may be Targaryean or Wylla/fisherman's daughter could be Jon's true mother.In my view Jon and only Jon can be AA/TPTWP. R + J is important because it's going to produce the savior of Westoros. So you can't have the product of that affair, Jon Snow, relegated to spending his life as some obscure warrior-monk. All signs points to him becoming all-powerful leader. After all he's already at the wall and have become Lord Commander and de facto leader of wildlings. It's only matter of time when Jon will take control of Stannis's army and bannerman who have been loyal to Starks.Given that not everyone picks on that theory I can't really consider that foreshadowing. Even if it was, just because he is a Targ and Rhaegars son doesn't mean he is AA anymore than Viserys. It requires you to confirm that Rhaegar was correct in his belief. Something which wasn't really confirmed until ADWD. It irritates me because Martin seemed to be going somewhere with the AA fantasy side of Danys arc (a main part of CoK) and then in a few lines of ADWD simply changes it to Jon. Coz, I don't know, hes the main male bastard character and all bastards have to be unknowingly special in fantasy. Really, its just meh. You build something up for a whole book and then late in the series just say that Quiathe, the Warlocks, the visions in the House of the Undying; were all incorrect and had misplaced all their assumptions abut Dany being magical? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fire Eater Posted October 31, 2012 Share Posted October 31, 2012 Dani is the hero of FireJon is the hero of IceJon is both ice and fire, and so he can be hero of both. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dragon has three heads Posted October 31, 2012 Share Posted October 31, 2012 ^this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Wun Wun Posted October 31, 2012 Share Posted October 31, 2012 I like the idea that AA is several people, the dragon has three heads and all that (like someone else in this thread already mentioned). Jon and Dany are clearly two of the heads imo. I'm hoping Jaime can be the other one. I'd certainly like to see him drive a sword through Cersei's heart, though I'd settle for him strangling her. She would make a great Nissa Nissa for him :devil: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sneak Posted October 31, 2012 Share Posted October 31, 2012 Again, subtle hints that become less subtle once it's revealed that the Ghost of High Heart foresaw that the PTWTP would come from the line of Aerys II and Rhaella.I firmly believe Dany is AAR, even if nothing comes of it. AAR and TPTWP are thought to be one and the same, right? It was prophesised TPTWP would come from Aerys and Rhaella. Dany comes from Aerys and Rhaella, Jon comes from Rhaegar and Lyanna. You could even say Drogo was Dany's Nissa Nissa. AAR will wake stone dragons under a bleeding star, this has already happened. Do people think Jon is going to suddenly do this? The comet has gone, and he doesn't have any dragon eggs. The only thing pointing towards Jon is Mel's Snow vision, which IMO is outwieghed by the things Dany has already done.That being said, I don't think Dany is going to be the only person to save the day. I think it will be a joint effort involving many POV and non-POV characters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sworn Shield Posted October 31, 2012 Share Posted October 31, 2012 Yes and Tyrion says the Red Priests couldn't comprehend more than one saviour. But its a bit late to start establishing Jon as AA out of the blue.Jon has been fighting the only war that really matters from the beginning of the story, so he is far from being too late to be established as AA. While pretty much every other character is focused on playing the Game of Thrones, Jon has been constantly involved in what really matter. Which is the 'Song of Ice and Fire'.While Dany definitely is fire, she has only ever been focussed on recapturing her birth right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Butler of Tarth Posted October 31, 2012 Share Posted October 31, 2012 The main problem with the prophecies is that people take them too literally. Does it really have to be an actual member of royalty? Does s/he have to put an actual sword through his/her spouse's heart? Does it actually have to be a sword that is on fire?No.That's why I like the concept of the original AA being the first Lord Commander. A man who forged 'The sword in the darkness' that was the Watch and 'pierced his wife's heart' by forswearing family. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grip Posted October 31, 2012 Share Posted October 31, 2012 I hope that the whole thing with AA and the other prophecies is a red herring itself, I certainly dont want any one person to be the promised one, IE the chosen savior. Imo ASOIAF doesnt need that to make a great story. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turinturambar1 Posted October 31, 2012 Share Posted October 31, 2012 Dani is the hero of FireJon is the hero of Ice :agree: It is known , i thought that Jon is AA , but after re-reading ADWD and the Heresy threads I realized that Jon will become The King of Winter :devil: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OGtargaryen Posted October 31, 2012 Share Posted October 31, 2012 Yes i agree that Jon is both ice and fire, he even has a "burnt" sword hand...probably no relevence whatsoever :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sworn Shield Posted October 31, 2012 Share Posted October 31, 2012 House Targaryen = FireHouse Stark = IceIce + Fire = Hodor for sureMelisandre keeps looking in the fires for AA after Stannis leaves the Wall and all she sees is 'Snow'. Characters who fulfill the AA prophecy are Stannis, Dany, Jon, Davos, Jaime, Victarion and possibly Theon and Bran. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Pollo Loco Posted October 31, 2012 Share Posted October 31, 2012 Given that not everyone picks on that theory I can't really consider that foreshadowing. Even if it was, just because he is a Targ and Rhaegars son doesn't mean he is AA anymore than Viserys. It requires you to confirm that Rhaegar was correct in his belief. Something which wasn't really confirmed until ADWD. It irritates me because Martin seemed to be going somewhere with the AA fantasy side of Danys arc (a main part of CoK) and then in a few lines of ADWD simply changes it to Jon. Coz, I don't know, hes the main male bastard character and all bastards have to be unknowingly special in fantasy. Really, its just meh. You build something up for a whole book and then late in the series just say that Quiathe, the Warlocks, the visions in the House of the Undying; were all incorrect and had misplaced all their assumptions abut Dany being magical?In my mind, there are basically two separate AA prophecies, one about Dragons and one about a flaming sword and there's been foreshadowing since GOT that Jon will get a magic sword, so I don't think Dany is a red herring but she's not going to be the only one to fulfill aspects of the AA prophesy or GRRM is just setting up Jon to be the red herring which i hope is not the case because as you said it already seems to apply to Dany Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Great Walrus Posted October 31, 2012 Share Posted October 31, 2012 What exactly is a "Red Herring"? i've never heard that term used except on this forum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winterfellian Posted October 31, 2012 Share Posted October 31, 2012 What exactly is a "Red Herring"? i've never heard that term used except on this forum.http://www.nizkor.org/features/fallacies/red-herring.htmlWith so many clues pointing out Dany as AA, many of us believe it to be a red herring to distract us from the correct AA.For my part, I discard all those proclaimed as AA in the books like Dany or Stannis. I rather like the NW being lightbringer theory because it doesn't involve a literal interpretation of the prophecy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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