Comics IV

[JonArryn]

While it's true that as a genre, Superhero comics seem to dominate the sales charts, comics as a whole is about as diverse of medium as you can find. There's plenty of sci-fi (and I'm sure by extension cyberpunk) comics out there, I'm just afraid I can't be too helpful as I tend to stick to the fantasy side of the fantasy/sci-fi divide. One that immediately comes to mind is Transmetropolitan (I've only read the first issue myself so I can't personally recommend it, but there are plenty of fans on this board).

If post-apocalyptic/post-catastrophe settings are sci-fi enough for you, I recommend checking out Zero Killer, DMZ, or The Massive.

You might also have some luck with Euro comics as they tend to be dominantly sci-fi and fantasy series. Perhaps something like Techno Priests or Aldebaran would be your thing.

Afraid I can't help at all with Cyberpunk, as it's never been a genre that interested me.

Thanks for the tips. I've heard good things about Transmetropolitan too, it seem to be very popular. Might give it a try. I haven't heard of the others though so I'll check them out. Transmetropolitan is pretty much what I meant by cyberpunk/sci-fi. I doesn't have to be strict cyberpunk or sci-fi, just a general feel of future in comics I guess. Apocalyptic settings work just as well.

[Winterfell is Burning]

I'm 2/3 of the way through Marvel Comics: The Untold Story by Sean Howe (just reached the part where Kirby dies :( ). It's great stuff. A lot of familiar stories, yes, but it's different (and depressing) seeing them all strung together into one long narrative. It also shines a light onto a lot of the forgotten or barely known people who played important roles behind the scenes.

I'm reading it too, almost at the end. It's mostly good, although it has some strange choices on focus: I swear Howe spends more time talking about Howard the Duck and all shenaningans involved than about 99,9% of the runs and the major writers and artists in the history of Marvel, and there's more lines about Howard the f*%$ng Duck there than, say, Hulk or Thor.

[Nephrite]

Yeah, I always felt Hank got screwed over by that story. Not saying people should forgive a wife beater, though it is a weird to me no one but Ellis pointed out that millions of people will be killing each other with Stark weapons for years to come.

The problem is that every writer has to write the redemption story of Hank Pym. There are no post-redemption stories. It's kind of like Johnny Storm is always a man-child at the beginning of a new FF run and how no freaking character can ever move on when their loved one dies. Johnny can grow all he wants, but the next writer comes along and he is back where he started.

[Winterfell is Burning]

The problem is that every writer has to write the redemption story of Hank Pym. There are no post-redemption stories. It's kind of like Johnny Storm is always a man-child at the beginning of a new FF run and how no freaking character can ever move on when their loved one dies. Johnny can grow all he wants, but the next writer comes along and he is back where he started.

Johnny is one of the prime examples of a false epiphany character: http://goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/2007/07/17/comic-dictionary-false-epiphany-characters/

[Sci-2]

Good call on the false epiphanies. Even now it is a bit strange that Reed in Fraction's run isn't trying to contact his dad or adult daughter in the ruins of the Council - dad's traveled the universe & she's smarter than him by his own admission so if anyone can help solve the problem.

There is something weird about Pym to me, that of all characters he has to own his past. How many mutants died when they instantly lost their powers? How many people has Wolverine murdered?

I just hope this selective guilt doesn't extend to Cyclops, where he's forever the bad guy thanks to one shit story.

[delete this account pls]

Well, Gail Simone has been fired off Batgirl. By email. Stay classy, DC.

I'm reading it too, almost at the end. It's mostly good, although it has some strange choices on focus: I swear Howe spends more time talking about Howard the Duck and all shenaningans involved than about 99,9% of the runs and the major writers and artists in the history of Marvel, and there's more lines about Howard the f*%$ng Duck there than, say, Hulk or Thor.

I put it down to a personal bias. I'm guessing Howe is a 70s Marvel guy (he talks a hell of a lot about Steve Englehart and Don McGregor too), and the fact that all the crap surrounding Howard the Duck plays into the running narrative of art versus commerce.

[Nephrite]

Well, Gail Simone has been fired off Batgirl. By email. Stay classy, DC.

Truth be told, that book was fuckin' horrible.

Maybe for the first time DC sacked someone based on the quality.

And, now Keith Giffen and Dan Jurgens can get another Hail Mary gig.

[Winterfell is Burning]

Just finished Marvel Comics: The Untold Story, so here are some thoughts on it- I'm not sure if you can call anything out of a history book spoiler, but if you do, there might be a few below:

Stan, Jack and Steve: This book is a kick in the balls of both the Funny Granpa Stan and the "Poor Victimized Humble Artistic Geniuses" image of both Kirby and Ditko. The differences between them are quite often simply a war of egos, with Kirby changing his tune every minute to make himself look better, and Stan being an opportunistic Walt Disney-wannabe that initially fought for artist and writers rights, but eventually sold out to corporate power, although none of them is without redeeming qualities.

It also shows that Marvel's Merry Bullpen Stan loved to promote was complete crap, at least at that time, but selling it that way was a good move, making readers feel more intimate with the writers and characters.

The 70's: An almost complete mess in many ways, with creators using LSD and drugs in a regular basis, often chaotic storylines, and missing deadlines a lot more than the Joe Q days. It's there that the fight for creator rights really begins, and, while Lowe it's clearly on their side (and above all, Steve Gerber and Howard the f**ing Duck), it's hard to feel that much simpathy for people that often were so undisciplined and often irresponsible. You see clearly why Marvel had 4 different EICs in 6 years, and why Jim Shooter taking over was necessary to avoid the company to go under.

Shooter era: Early Shooter was clearly the best EIC Marvel ever had: he restructured the company, had a clear sense of what the comics should be like (Ms. Marvel debacle non-withstanding), let Claremont/Byrne do their thing, except for his interference in DPS, which made the story better. But in his later years, he lost the plot and became too much of a micromanager and interfering too much with the stories, with him being dismissed being inevitable. Still, considering the mess that came later, perhaps the company would be better off if he stayed.

De Falco/Harras/90's- De Falco was the one that started this "Well, why not have 3 Spider-Man titles if we can? Why not 4?" mentality that still plagues Marvel today, and things were quickly out of control. He, along with Harras while he was still with the X-books also begun this short-sighted policy of placing more importance to the hot new artists than to the people writing the books and working at Marvel for many years, and it backfired completely.

At this point, the book begins to place more focus on the business side of things, as Marvel Comics clearly becomes just another piece at a bigger engine to make money, and also shows how the speculators/gimmicks was a snowball of disasters waiting to happen.

Unlike I believed, Harras merely inherited the Heroes Reborn mess that had been decided by the higher ups, but he was shown clearly to have been too weak and lacking leadership to be EIC.

The 2000's: This and the 90's should have been covered more, it's one of the flaws of the book, although I imagine that it's in part because people don't want to talk much

Quesada's ascension wasn't entirely merited: he had success with the Marvel Knights line, but he clearly had unfair advantages over other editors, it's unclear whether he would have had that much success at an even playing field. Howe also confirms that that confrontation story between him and Morrison at a comic con was true.

Jemas was an asshole, knew he was, enjoyed being one, but he also delivered some much needed changes to the company and helped modernize it.

At this point, Howe is clearly negatively judgemental about the way Marvel is going and the overall quality, not entire wrong, but he's still somewhat unfair: the quality today is certainly better than the 70's he's so fond of.

He also has a Claremont quote that, while one that reads his more recent stories finds his situation understandable, it's still heartbreaking:

“I remember seeing Jerry Siegel, then working as a proofreader, hustling around the office and trying to get writing jobs. I said to myself, I’m never going to be one of those guys. Now I look on the stands and see comics of all these characters I created, and Marvel won’t let me write them.”

Overall, I'd recommend this for everyone that is interested in the history of comics, or just likes to see how the sausage gets made.

[Winterfell is Burning]

http://www.comichron...12/2012-11.html

Comic sales for November. Highlights include UA losing 7 out of 10 readers, and in a turn of events that, if it is a trend, might make into a believer in Old Gods and the New, Hawkeye, Daredevil and Saga sold more than Wolverine.

[Nephrite]

http://www.comichron...12/2012-11.html

Comic sales for November. Highlights include UA losing 7 out of 10 readers

That's probably cause this issue didn't have 19 variants.

[red snow]

http://www.comichron...12/2012-11.html

Comic sales for November. Highlights include UA losing 7 out of 10 readers, and in a turn of events that, if it is a trend, might make into a believer in Old Gods and the New, Hawkeye, Daredevil and Saga sold more than Wolverine.

Uncanny avengers barely came out in November and I'm sure the delay and lack of variants contributed, I find it hilariuos after Marvel making such a big deal of the creative teams remaining intact for at least a year (with rotating artists but a core artist never-the-less) that the main artist for the NOW! flagship title is leaving after issue 5 - and that's assuming Cassaday ever finishes issue 5 (or 4 for that matter).

As for Simone and Batgirl; I could care less. Oracle should have stayed as she was in my opinion and while Simone was one of the few people I'd give a shot at writing the series, there was absolutely nothing in the first issue that made me want to read further. Shitty way for DC to ditch one of their better writers but I guess DC's loss is Image's gain and I'd be interested to see sales on the series without her

[Sci-2]

Batgirl was a bad idea to begin with. I'm guessing the book tanks without Simone.

Uncanny without Cassady seems like it'll be garbage.

[Nephrite]

Uncanny avengers barely came out in November

Well, the sale figures are based on the orders the retailers made god-knows-when. The true sales, that is the number of copies people actually bought is even lower. Still they always say it sold out. It's one of those dumb things. Marvel prints a number of copies that the retailers ordered, and then they announce that the issue sold-out. Sigh.

DC stuff I hopefully won't be reading come March....

JUSTICE LEAGUE #18 - "Batman continues to be question the Superman/Wonder Woman alliance"

It's called having sex, Batman. Jesus, I know you are a freaking man-child, but get a grip. An alliance. Like they signed a fuckin' contract. When they break up, they can still have an occasional nookie at Helm's Deep.

ACTION COMICS #18 - "Luthor’s plan to eradicate Superman may make Kal an alien pariah!"

If he is eradicated, his social status really won't matter.

SUPERMAN #18 - "The new H.I.V.E. makes its stunning first appearance in The New 52 by trying to take over Metropolis!"

There was never an "old" H.I.V.E. cause you rebooted your universe, DC.

The same goes for the new Dr. Light, the new Shadow Thief, the new Fatal Five and the new Multiplex.

"More on Clark Kent’s life as a reporter away from The Daily Planet!"

Oh, you gonna touch up on that, Lobdell? Cause it's your fucking plot point.

BATMAN, INCORPORATED #9 - "Is The Dark Knight a murderer?"

No. No, he is not. If this even happened, Batman's Mary Sueish Plot Shield would destroy reality and the rebuild it molecule by molecule just so that Batman can have the high ground to shit on all other characters. DC would sooner make Jesus Christ

the Son of God

into a murderer, than they they'd let that happen to the holy Batman (see what I did there? I'm not proud of it. Puns are evil.)

Either that, or Dan DiDio is gonna give an awkward interview saying it didn't happen. Like when he retconned Aquaman's one panel appearance in Final Crisis for no fuckin' reason. Remember that? Good times with the ol' micro-management.

Why are you even teasing us with this? That's like Marvel trying to convince me that they'll kill Wolverine.

BATMAN #18 - "In the wake of unspeakable tragedy"

Alfred, it's been an honor. Either that or they are talking about Ethan Van Sciver getting regular work for years now.

"Batman is in danger of losing his humanity!"

.... How will I know the difference?

"And in the backup story, fan-favorite character Harper Row returns"

Who?

No, seriously, who the fuck is Harper Row? I might google her, but I'm afraid that the first result would just lead me to this page and my own post mentioning her here, there by causing a time-loop and killing my younger self. I don't wanna die.

BATMAN AND ROBIN #18 - "You dare not miss this issue! It’s the BATMAN AND ROBIN story of the year!"

Well, when you put it that way... Really what the fuck it this about? How abut some info. Or any info.

TALON #6 - I can't believe DC is publishing this. The comedy stylings of DC editorial is at the same time hysterical and confounding. At this point they are just throwing shit at the wall to see if they can build a Bat-symbol made out of shit. But, they can't, cause most of the shit goes to produce ink they use for printing Firestorm.

[delete this account pls]

I haven't read Batgirl at all, but I think it's a weird/shitty decision. DC copped a LOT of flak for their Batgirl relaunch (and rightly so, it was and is a terrible idea). The fact that it was a moderate critical and sales success has a lot to do with Simone. There's rumours she was fired for refusing to carry out a distasteful editorial edict. Given the atmosphere at DC for the last few years, I guess that means Batgirl can expect some egregious cheesecake, or lots of rape in the near future. It's all so dark and gritty and edgy man!

[Lady Octarina]

Uncanny avengers barely came out in November and I'm sure the delay and lack of variants contributed, I find it hilariuos after Marvel making such a big deal of the creative teams remaining intact for at least a year (with rotating artists but a core artist never-the-less) that the main artist for the NOW! flagship title is leaving after issue 5 - and that's assuming Cassaday ever finishes issue 5 (or 4 for that matter).

Cassaday is leaving? I thought Coipel was to work on issue 5 but Cassaday would remain the main artist even after that... ETA: forget about it, I've just seen Remender's tweet on the subject. Can't say that I'm sorry, and Acuña's art looks better than anything Cassaday has done recently.

Anyway, remember last week or so we were discussing Scott's age and kind of agreed it was 35? According to Tom Brevoort, they're younger than that... I know I shouldn't be trying to make sense of anything related to time in the Marvel U, but it seems to me all shock value is diminished when you meet your older self who has only lived 12 years more than you, not to mention that, if we take what Brevoort says as canon, than there were only ten years between when Xavier founded the X-Men and "no more mutants".

Why do I even bother... :bang:

[Nephrite]

The fact that it was a moderate critical and sales success has a lot to do with Simone.

Yeah.

This book can only get better.

Given the atmosphere at DC for the last few years, I guess that means Batgirl can expect some egregious cheesecake, or lots of rape in the near future.

Uhm, Ed Benes was doing artwork during Simone's run. There was plenty of cheesecake anyway. Theman, hasn't seen a page where he didn't squeeze a thigh or a tit in.

It's all so dark and gritty and edgy man!

Yeah.

Up.

[haLobEnder]

Cassaday is leaving? I thought Coipel was to work on issue 5 but Cassaday would remain the main artist even after that... ETA: forget about it, I've just seen Remender's tweet on the subject. Can't say that I'm sorry, and Acuña's art looks better than anything Cassaday has done recently.

Anyway, remember last week or so we were discussing Scott's age and kind of agreed it was 35? According to Tom Brevoort, they're younger than that... I know I shouldn't be trying to make sense of anything related to time in the Marvel U, but it seems to me all shock value is diminished when you meet your older self who has only lived 12 years more than you, not to mention that, if we take what Brevoort says as canon, than there were only ten years between when Xavier founded the X-Men and "no more mutants".

Why do I even bother... :bang:

The funny thing is, all the other X-Men groups are even younger. Why even make a generational distinction between the New Mutants, Generation X, X-Men: Academy, and Generation Hope when all the characters fall roughly into the same age group? Heck, even Rogue's probably barely out of her teens by Marvel's timeline, which makes her relationship with Magneto all the creepier.

Is aging your characters up some really the worst thing that could happen them? Your average comic reader isn't getting any younger. One of the things that kept me engaged in the X-comics for much of my life was identifying with the characters around my age, but as it stands I'm only a few years shy of being older than all of them :P

[Sci-2]

Okay...what the fuck is the First Lantern?

[Winterfell is Burning]

The funny thing is, all the other X-Men groups are even younger. Why even make a generational distinction between the New Mutants, Generation X, X-Men: Academy, and Generation Hope when all the characters fall roughly into the same age group? Heck, even Rogue's probably barely out of her teens by Marvel's timeline, which makes her relationship with Magneto all the creepier.

Is aging your characters up some really the worst thing that could happen them? Your average comic reader isn't getting any younger. One of the things that kept me engaged in the X-comics for much of my life was identifying with the characters around my age, but as it stands I'm only a few years shy of being older than all of them :P

You have to remember that the original X-men, except for maybe Beast, are all Peter Parker aged; if you're Peter Parker aged, there's only so much older you can get.

Seriously, it would be a lot easier to simply say- "their powers slow down their aging" in many of the cases- in Cyclops you can atribute to the Phoenix now, Iceman doesn't really age in iceform, Beast has a healing factor, and as for Spider-Man, well, they did stranger things with his powers.

[AverageGuy]

Johnny is one of the prime examples of a false epiphany character: http://goodcomics.co...any-characters/

Speaking of Simone...

Okay...what the fuck is the First Lantern?

I thought it was Krona?