Did you like the the change of Stannis on the Blackwater?

[Rolex Baratheon]

Like I said didn't Stannis have a guy with a shield running beside him to act as an uber helmet :dunno:

[eaglestate]

When he lead his troops like he did that was the first time i really liked him and kind of wanted him to win

[GarthKITN]

I don't see how armor fits into that. They could afford it for Tywin, Joffrey, and Tyrion...

Davos talked in the book about how anyone with sense wouldn't be fighting a sea battle in heavy plate, because if you fell into the water it would be the death of you. He brings up the Florent lords doing that. Maybe Stannis had some sense, or listended to Davos? It would have been better if they'd mentioned that in the show, but it makes sense. I don't think Stannis was expecting wildfire to that degree, and might have been planning to command from the sea.

[The Broke Howard Hughes]

I absolutely hate that episode, so so so much.

Not only is the battle utterly simplified(no chain, no flaming boat bridge, no wildlings attacking the scouts, no "Renly", etc.) but the battle itself makes no sense. There's no land army from Stannis, or if there is it isn't mentioned in the slightest, which makes no sense. The vast majority of Stannis's fleet is obviously destroyed from Bronn's godly arrow(which I found silly) but what was left of Stannis's forces just... what? Sailed AROUND the devastation? And then what was with that sudden major Stannis reinforcement army that came after Tyrion had seemingly defeated them? Also, there's no way they'd let the king lead the charge and go up the ladder first. And how the hell do they expect us to believe Stannis and whatever troops grabbed him were able to get away?

The battle changes ITSELF aside, the episode itself was rather obnoxious - the constant Sansa/Cersei cuts were very jarring even if they actually happened in the book, Sophie Turner absolutely SUCKED in this episode which is a shame because she was perfect in the first season IMO, the whole Bronn/Sandor standoff at the beginning was HORRIBLY forced and painful to watch(and another excuse to show us a naked woman), and Stannis leading the assault/battle itself is terribly out of character for Stannis. Personally, I always got the impression that Stannis COULD hold his own in a fight, but tends to not choose to fight himself - after all, I doubt he did much fighting while under siege at Storm's End and I kind of doubt he himself fought Victarion Greyjoy's Ironmen in Balon Greyjoy's first rebellion.

I WOULD have been fine with Stannis leading men to shore and fighting if he was armored like a king, he wasn't at the absolute front of the charge, his escape made more sense and if there was more emphasis on him giving orders and being a charismatic/genius strategist... rather than a fighting genius.

Other episode nitpicks: I feel like The National's Rains of Castamere honestly could've played in episode itself during a silent montage at the very end of the episode, when you see Tyrion in Pod's arms and whatnot I also think all the gore effects and whatnot in the episode were terribly cheesy and unrealistic, and the stupid-as-fuck Varys cocktease at the beginning of the episode(DID I EVER TELL YOU ABOUT MY BALLS GETTING CUT OFF? NO? I'LL TELL YOU LATER) was just infuriating. Especially since Varys had told Tyrion that embezzled story about himself to make Tyrion 1.) trust Varys slightly more, via Varys giving him a personal story and 2.) to make Tyrion certain that Varys wouldn't work for Stannis.

I also wish Sandor had borderline raped Sansa like what happened in the books, but then again, the show kind of failed at planting the Sandor/Sansa seeds early on so that would've been an awkward scene.

Actual HIGHLIGHTS of the episode, so positive words now! I do like how they handled the whole wildfire thing, as a whole, giving the budget they had. I thought the soundtrack, like always, was perfect. I thought the addition of Cersei about to poison Tom and herself was a cool and believable change. I REALLY liked what the episode did with Lancel. I love the actor who plays Pod, perfect actor for the role IMO even if they act kind of different.

Also, I wish there was an Edmure and thus a Edmure-letting-the-Lannisters-retreat-to-King's-Landing plot. Ah well. :(

/major rant

Unfortunately I think your one of the few people alive who hated that episode. True lots of stuff was missing, but for TV, it was AWESOME.

[The Mountain That Posts]

I think the major thing with action/violence VS nudity...

All instances of violence/action, for the most part, happen that way in the books. A few things different(Ned fighting Jaime, and then getting speared through the leg. That's an understandable change though, a horse falling on Ned is lame even in the book) here and there, like in the first episode when the rangers find the dead wildlings butchered whereas in the books they looked like they were asleep. (dead by cold)

SOME violence added in the show(Joff abusing his whores, Jaime going psycho and uncharacteristically butchering his cousin) were stupid and unnecessary.

However, AS A WHOLE, the show actually REMOVES much more action/violence than it shows.

Replace that with the sex/nudity. I do NOT have a problem with nudity/sex, at all. I love reading/seeing sex when it works with the plot. But the show doesn't do that, it's like you're watching Game of Thrones and instead of commercial breaks you get titty breaks.

There's a difference between a show giving us tits and sex in necessary situations where it WORKS, and just showing us tits every here and there because they can and because they know it'll get them money.

And I know people argue that the nudity is one of the biggest draws people have to HBO, but i've never met anyone who said "I WATCH GAME OF THRONES FOR THE TITS", "I WATCH BOARDWALK EMPIRE FOR THE SEX", etc. And considering how easy it is to watch porn online for free, I highly doubt many people in 2013 ACTUALLY get HBO just so they can fap.

[Mr Fixit]

Replace that with the sex/nudity. I do NOT have a problem with nudity/sex, at all. I love reading/seeing sex when it works with the plot. But the show doesn't do that, it's like you're watching Game of Thrones and instead of commercial breaks you get titty breaks.

There's a difference between a show giving us tits and sex in necessary situations where it WORKS, and just showing us tits every here and there because they can and because they know it'll get them money.

I honestly don't know what censored version of the books you read. :laugh: In my copy, you can't throw a dead cat without it landing on naked bodies, sex (oral or otherwise), rape, and similar instances of related activities.

The show has much LESS nudity and sex than the books. There, I said it.

[Gannicus]

The sex in the books is so much more painful too. GRRM can't write a sex scene to save his life.

[Pinkie Baelish]

I thought the change worked well. It helped convey just how badly Stannis wanted the throne, that he's willing to climb the ladder first in order to get it. Also loved Stannis screaming at his men to fight while being dragged away. That's definitely something I could see book Stannis doing.

And don't give me that crap about Stannis wanting the throne only out of duty. Deep down, there's a part of Stannis Baratheon that's always wanted the world to see his real worth. He's been overlooked in favour of his brothers his entire life, and the iron throne is the only way to change that.

[SecretaryofEvil]

Stannis was wearing armor. It's chainmail with a small chestplate, similar to Roose Bolton's (who wears no chestplate, though).

I was going to post that. I thought it was odd people kept complaining he wasn't wearing armor, when he was wearing armor.

Remember, if they got armor on it's a battle.

[SecretaryofEvil]

re: The helms, I think it's less about audiences being able to recognise characters, and more about the actors being able to express emotions on screen. You want to be able to see all the emotions on a character's face, and a helm would prevent that.

I agree with this. It would have made more sense for them to wear helmets, but if you can't see the actors' faces it's hard for them to convey emotion to the audience.

[The Mountain That Posts]

I honestly don't know what censored version of the books you read. :laugh: In my copy, you can't throw a dead cat without it landing on naked bodies, sex (oral or otherwise), rape, and similar instances of related activities.

The show has much LESS nudity and sex than the books. There, I said it.

What the hell are you smoking? If I remember correctly, there's only about four or five described sexual scenes per book, most rapes/sex scenes are only implied or mentioned but not SHOWN to the reader. Compare that to the LITERAL average of six tits per episode in the TV show.

The sex in the books is so much more painful too. GRRM can't write a sex scene to save his life.

I don't know, I think he purposefully makes some sex scenes disgusting on purpose. Whereas others(Ser Arys + Arianne, Jon + Ygritte) are actually quite beautifully done IMO.

[Mr Fixit]

Okay. That makes it 60 tits per season, if that's how you want to count things. How many tits in a book, if I may ask? I'd like a counting of 'lower parts' as well.

As I said, we must surely be reading different editions.

[aFeastForDragons]

I loved this episode and have probably watched it 10+ times. With the budget they had GRRM did a great job and I might just like it better than the actual book battle. The wildfire explosion was insane and Stannis being a relentless badass had me routing for him the entire episode. Only complaint I have is that Stannis didn't say anything about Renly when he saw the Lannister/Tyrell cavalry charge. No mention of Salador Saan either but he will hopefully pop up next season.

[Ser Ken Oh]

Stannis showed what true leadership. In wake of such a devastating surprise he rallied his men and led them as he should have. Much like Tyrion rallied his men. When you see your leader step in line of danger first, it always inspires. It doesn't just show courage, it shows perseverance, and how you should lead by example. How you are willing to commit yourself to a task you ask others to perform.

I'm glad Stannis did it, I think it fits the Stannis is iron line much more.

[Ser Ken Oh]

And it may be silly to risk your leader, but how can you ask a man to follow if you will not lead? I mean these are levies not standing armies with an NCO corp to my knowledge.

Stannis is harsh but extremely fair in my opinion. His justice can be severe but he is by no means a tyrant...I mean Davos devotion to him speaks boat loads upon boat loads. Stannis could be my king any day.

[TheButcherCrow]

Not wearing armor in battle is bad enough, but what makes it worse is that it's inconsistent. Tywin and Joffrey were wearing armor, and Tyrion as well (like you said). But Stannis goes in wearing leather and no helmet or even chainmail, and they didn't even let the Hound wear his helm!! It's kind of bullshit, honestly. But the episode itself was grand

You know what the Iron Born call people who wear plate armour etc on a ship? A gift to the Drowned God.

[Ser Ken Oh]

You know what the Iron Born call people who wear plate armour etc on a ship? A gift to the Drowned God.

Agreed I sure dont want to Agincourt through the mud in plate armour.

[Nezzer]

You know what the Iron Born call people who wear plate armour etc on a ship? A gift to the Drowned God.

Still, Stannis wasn't in leathers. He was wearing a chainmail with a small breastplate, very similar to the armor of the Gold Cloaks.

[Ser Ken Oh]

I was going to post that. I thought it was odd people kept complaining he wasn't wearing armor, when he was wearing armor.

Remember, if they got armor on it's a battle.

Your a boss for that hot pie

[Cruella]

I am grateful to series for not showing Drogo's glistening penis or Tyrion defecating. Some porn was worked-in badly, I agree, but not necessarily because there was very much of it. Theon's characterization during sex with Rose and LF being bizarrely open with his girls were annoying, but not so much because there was sex involved.