Official Game of Thrones Season 3 Trailer Now Live

[protar]

No, they're not. They don't want to bring ADwD forward; they want to stay on ASoS for as long as possible.

Your source for this. They are enthusiastic about SOS, but I've heard nothing about them wanting to "stay on ASoS for as long as possible." And in any case, bringing forwards some AFFC/ADWD material in S4 wouldn't effect the amount of SOS material being aired, it would just be aired alongside it.

My "precious Mysha (sic) scene" LMFAO.

You don't understand how it works. Yunkai surrenders to Daenerys because she defeats their "army" (we know this takes place from preview footage where she negotiates with the sellswords). She forces them to release their slaves and they hail her as Mhysa. If you merge Meereen with Yunkai, she does not conquer the city, it surrenders itself to her. And, as the slaves are RELEASED, there is NO REASON for her to stay because THERE ARE NO LONGER SLAVES FOR HER TO CARE ABOUT. If the 'Mhysa' scene took place in the city I would agree that your suggestion is likely. However, as it stands, it won't happen.

Why should Dany stay in Meereen if two cities don't fall to slavery again? Astapor has to be destroyed and Yunkai needs to declare war on her for it to be necessary to stay in Meereen. She also needs to sack the city and kill the Great Masters for her story in ADwD. But if she sacks the city and kills the GM after they've surrendered, she goes straight into Tywin Lannister territory. This is not going to happen.

At this point you're simply repeating the same argument over and over. You have completely failed to explain why Dany cannot defeat Meereen's army, be hailed by the slaves that they've surrendered and then decided to take charge to prevent a repeat of Astapor returning to slavery. Why can't that happen? Because it's not exactly as in the books? On my list of things I want kept true to the books, the exact intricacies of war strategies is quite near the bottom imo.

Why does Astapor need to be destroyed for Dany to stay in Meereen. It can recoup and reinstate slavery, then declare war on Dany, taking the role of Yunkai.

No, I don't. I just mentioned what happens in those two chapters. They could still bring forward material from ADwD. I was just demonstrating how much happens.

Then make it clear what your talking about. You never mentioned any ADWD material that you'd would find acceptable to bring into S4. I'm not psychic.

You said they should combine Yunkai and Meereen. If that's the case, you're suggesting they should cut a significant portion of Dany's material.

No I'm not. It's quite simple. Dany's campaign in Meereen would take aspects from aspects of both Meereen and Yunkai in the books. So she's persuading the Sellswords to join her, she has the Mysha scene, she sends Jorah and Barristan into the sewers. All the content is there, it just happens in relation to one city, rather than two.

Yes, actually, it is a hugely important lesson. If she had've sacked Yunkai it would not have been able to raise an army against her, and she could have returned to Astapor without worrying about losing Meereen.

That's not a lesson though, that's simply an element of the war strategies. In the books her "lesson" about Yunkai is completely invalidated by what happened in Astapor. She takes different routes with each city but both go to hell. The political situation between Meereen, Yunkai and Astapor is a different matter irrelevant to that, and can be simplified with Dany simply wanting to come to a peaceful solution after all the deaths in Astapor.

You missed my point. GRRM is part of the writing process. If all of Dany's ASoS material is in season 3, he'll know. This means he would know that they'd have to include her ADwD material in season 4, yes?

Yes. Doesn't mean he'd be telling us though.

Dany is only there FROM A META PERSPECTIVE so that Tyrion can reach her.

That's what I said. Doylist perspective is the meta-perspective, as opposed to Watsonian (based on Sherlock Holmes as Doyle was the RL author whereas Watson was the in-universe story teller as I'm sure you're aware.).

Erm, if you have all of Dany's material in season 4 upto the wedding... there's nothing left for season 5. Literally all she does after the wedding is go to the Fighting Pits, ride Drogon and then walk around the Dothraki Sea. That's two episodes of material.

Wrong. Quentyn's arrival can be shifted slightly so that he arrives just after the wedding giving opportunity for interaction there. Or possibly S4 could end with the hook of Dany marrying Hizdahr. So in S5 we get Dany's marriage, Quentyn's arrival, peace with Astapor and then the fighting pit. After that, Dany can disappear for a few episodes so we can deal with the political fallout of her leaving, and then the season will cap off with the battle of fire.

But anyway, I'm done arguing about this. Firstly: they're not going to merge Yunkai and Meereen, and secondly: they probably won't bother to adapt AFfC or ADwD anyway.

Translation: I have no further arguments so I'm just going to pretend I've won.

But in any case I'm not interested in furthering this discussion either after you've repeated the same arguments bout 3 times in a row. And even if Yunkai is in, I am adamant that we'll see her rule in Meereen in S4, and if that's the case her marriage to Hizdahr is the only logical conclusion for a story arc (or at most the promise of the wedding.). So either way, it doesn't change my overall estimations.

[protar]

Can shows go on hiatus for a year and yet come back with all the important actors? Any examples?

I think a book 8 will be necessary and I am pessimistic about the release dates for TWOW and ADOS. Martin has not kept up a decent pace for a decade now, and he has taken up even more competing projects now with the HBO producer job. He also hasn't been giving hints that the writing on TWOW is going well, or any optimistic estimates of his writing time. Depending on what the HBO job he has taken entails exactly, I think we may have to wait a long time yet for TWOW, and if the bulk of AFFC/ADWD doesn't take 2 seasons (in addition to any parts moved to S4) D&D may already overtake Martin before he even gets TWOW out.

I haven't looked into it extensively, I'd heard that the Sopranos had done it though somewhere on this forum. Apologies if that isn't the case. But even if it isn't my projection shows that it is not strictly necessary.

As I've said time and time again, there's really no reason why we can't see TWOW by 2014. People are simply being pessimistic. 3 years is a reasonable estimation for writing a book. And of course after all the hate he got for AFFC/ADWD being delayed I can see why Martin is reluctant to give any optimistic estimates for TWOW.

[Abaddon]

Battle at the Wall will not happen this season. Several articles I've read, and even D+D I believe, have said they are asking HBO for more money for season 4 for a battle "bigger than Blackwater". There's already so much happening this season, I don't want to see the battle at the Wall tacked on half-assed just to get it out of the way. It can be just as epic, if not more, than Blackwater, if done right, which I know D+D can most likely do.

We're talking about the 1st Battle at the Wall... the one on the South side... not the battle on the North side. I guess you could call it the "skirmish" to distinguish it :). Nobody thinks the real battle will happen in S3.

[Wouter]

I haven't looked into it extensively, I'd heard that the Sopranos had done it though somewhere on this forum. Apologies if that isn't the case. But even if it isn't my projection shows that it is not strictly necessary.

As I've said time and time again, there's really no reason why we can't see TWOW by 2014. People are simply being pessimistic. 3 years is a reasonable estimation for writing a book.

His last 2 books took far longer than 3 years. And that was before he became a HBO producer (don't know what exactly the deal is with that, but I doubt the effect on his writing time for the books will be positive) and while he was doing slightly less promotional tours than he is doing now, being more popular than ever before.

[PatrickStormborn]

Your source for this. They are enthusiastic about SOS, but I've heard nothing about them wanting to "stay on ASoS for as long as possible." And in any case, bringing forwards some AFFC/ADWD material in S4 wouldn't effect the amount of SOS material being aired, it would just be aired alongside it.

When describing season three, they said it would be the season that would make "everything worth it". They've been working on this show for years to get to the Red Wedding. It's an absolute nightmare to adapt. AFfC and ADwD are going to be even harder with far less pay-off. Therefore I don't think they're interested in adapting it. If you think the opposite then cool, whatever.

At this point you're simply repeating the same argument over and over. You have completely failed to explain why Dany cannot defeat Meereen's army, be hailed by the slaves that they've surrendered and then decided to take charge to prevent a repeat of Astapor returning to slavery. Why can't that happen? Because it's not exactly as in the books? On my list of things I want kept true to the books, the exact intricacies of war strategies is quite near the bottom imo.

Why does Astapor need to be destroyed for Dany to stay in Meereen. It can recoup and reinstate slavery, then declare war on Dany, taking the role of Yunkai.

If they surrender the slaves, Dany will not stay to rule the city because there will be no slaves to rule. THAT'S why she stays in Meereen. She doesn't give a shit about the slavers. She stays for the slaves. If they surrender their slaves, there won't be slaves in the city, so she won't stay. It's honestly that simple.

She only stays in Meereen because of the fall of Astapor. Maybe you need to re-read her chapters in ASoS and ADwD to re-familiarise yourself with her motivations. Remember that Daenerys needs to be trapped by Yunkai. If Astapor falls and Yunkai and Meereen are merged, she could simply go straight to Astapor and return to Meereen. The big problem in ADwD is that she cannot return to Astapor without Meereen falling - and she would then be trapped with armies all around her.

Then make it clear what your talking about. You never mentioned any ADWD material that you'd would find acceptable to bring into S4. I'm not psychic.

The intention of my post was to outline just how much material was in her last two chapters. I thought that was made very explicit.

No I'm not. It's quite simple. Dany's campaign in Meereen would take aspects from aspects of both Meereen and Yunkai in the books. So she's persuading the Sellswords to join her, she has the Mysha scene, she sends Jorah and Barristan into the sewers. All the content is there, it just happens in relation to one city, rather than two.

Sigh. If Meereen surrenders to Dany, there's no need to send Jorah and Barristan into the sewers, is there? And if she sends Jorah and Barristan into the sewers, they have to free the slaves and that leads to them destroying and sacking the city. Therefore there cannot be a 'Mhysa' scene as 1) the slaves will not be released and 2) no one who was in a sacked city would ever hail the reason behind the sack as their Mother. It's common sense.

Yes. Doesn't mean he'd be telling us though.

He wouldn't say "Dany's ADwD material will be brought forward", but he would say "we're going to need to bring material forward". But he hasn't said that. He still seems to think that only a very small amount of material will be brought forward.

Translation: I have no further arguments so I'm just going to pretend I've won.

But in any case I'm not interested in furthering this discussion either after you've repeated the same arguments bout 3 times in a row. And even if Yunkai is in, I am adamant that we'll see her rule in Meereen in S4, and if that's the case her marriage to Hizdahr is the only logical conclusion for a story arc (or at most the promise of the wedding.). So either way, it doesn't change my overall estimations.

But I have won? D&D aren't going to merge Yunkai and Meereen. It's not logical to assume this. Therefore there's no point continuing to argue about this.

[Abaddon]

protar, details aside, I disagree with the assertion that the best adaptation will be one that sees all of the current books completed through S5. It's possible, sure. But I think it will be too compressed and rushed. We're just going to have to disagree on that point.

[Pinkie Baelish]

I don't know about D & D wanting to spend as long as ASOS as possible: it seems like they want to get the adaptation of the book just right, with all the big moments done properly. As for AFFC/ADWD, there is a lot of filler in those books. It's been fairly smooth sailing for the first 4 seasons, but their real test will be when they're tasked with adapting books 4 and 5.

And as for Yunkai being excluded, I highly, HIGHLY doubt they're going to do that. Otherwise it's just going to be Astapor and Meereen for two full seasons. And remember, the battle of Yunkai was offscreen in the book. It could be the same in the show as well, which means it wouldn't drain their budget. Besides, Daenerys is a fan favourite, so it makes sense that the showrunners would want to show all the asskicking moments she has.

[The_ Laughing_Storm]

Has it been screencapped yet??

[protar]

When describing season three, they said it would be the season that would make "everything worth it". They've been working on this show for years to get to the Red Wedding. It's an absolute nightmare to adapt. AFfC and ADwD are going to be even harder with far less pay-off. Therefore I don't think they're interested in adapting it. If you think the opposite then cool, whatever.

If they surrender the slaves, Dany will not stay to rule the city because there will be no slaves to rule. THAT'S why she stays in Meereen. She doesn't give a shit about the slavers. She stays for the slaves. If they surrender their slaves, there won't be slaves in the city, so she won't stay. It's honestly that simple.

She only stays in Meereen because of the fall of Astapor. Maybe you need to re-read her chapters in ASoS and ADwD to re-familiarise yourself with her motivations. Remember that Daenerys needs to be trapped by Yunkai. If Astapor falls and Yunkai and Meereen are merged, she could simply go straight to Astapor and return to Meereen. The big problem in ADwD is that she cannot return to Astapor without Meereen falling - and she would then be trapped with armies all around her.

The intention of my post was to outline just how much material was in her last two chapters. I thought that was made very explicit.

Sigh. If Meereen surrenders to Dany, there's no need to send Jorah and Barristan into the sewers, is there? And if she sends Jorah and Barristan into the sewers, they have to free the slaves and that leads to them destroying and sacking the city. Therefore there cannot be a 'Mhysa' scene as 1) the slaves will not be released and 2) no one who was in a sacked city would ever hail the reason behind the sack as their Mother. It's common sense.

He wouldn't say "Dany's ADwD material will be brought forward", but he would say "we're going to need to bring material forward". But he hasn't said that. He still seems to think that only a very small amount of material will be brought forward.

But I have won? D&D aren't going to merge Yunkai and Meereen. It's not logical to assume this. Therefore there's no point continuing to argue about this.

Well I admit i'm due for a reread, and I'm not too keen on making another massive post at this point in the evening. In any case here's how it could potentially go down:

• Dany treats with the Sellsword captains
  
• Dany succeeds in defeating Meereen's army in the field with the help of the sellswords.
  
• Mero attacks Dany at her camp triggering the reveals of Jorah and Barristan.
  
• Jorah and Barristan go into the sewers and manage to liberate the Slaves.
  
• Mysha.
  

Next season (seeing as I think that without the PW Mysha will be the last scene leaving no time for expositing about the fallout.) Dany exiles Jorah and forgives Barristan. She learns Astapor has risen up again and is slaving once more. She doesn't want to fight if she can avoid it so she decides to rule in Meereen and attempt a peaceful solution. That may not be exactly as it is in the books but it is a perfectly logical progression of events.

As for you having won, no you haven't. You not may think it is logical to get rid of Yunkai, but I do. Until we see how the season pans out neither of us have "won" and to say otherwise is insultingly arrogant imo.

[protar]

protar, details aside, I disagree with the assertion that the best adaptation will be one that sees all of the current books completed through S5. It's possible, sure. But I think it will be too compressed and rushed. We're just going to have to disagree on that point.

Fair enough. I'm constructing a plan for a potential S4 and 5 which will have AFFC/ADWD/Battle of Fire in 10 episodes. I can PM you it once I'm finished if you'd like. Either you'll be won round or I'll make a fool of myself :P.

[jmk51]

Some interesting discussion on how the story will follow the books (and the inevitable intersection of book/show timelines); my thought is still that D&D know the rough storyline to conclusion, and they will continue to push the story along and make changes as it makes sense (the Arya/Tywin interplay is the main point in my mind - its pre-school for her "faceless men" training, and it will juxtapose this season's Tywin/Joffrey interplay) to the overall narrative. This leads me to think that some of the new plotlines characters introduced (the springing up of new contenders to the throne, whatever Dany is doing in the desert, the Dorne's) might not be introduced at all, or significantly altered.

There is no way a TV audience can be expected to to follow the already complex plotlines (for a TV series) with introduction of all new plotlines without a field reference guide. If it where a soap opera that had no beginning or end, then introducing the Ironborn plot, the Martells, the Dornish, the city states, the rock people, sending Sam away for training, people showing up and getting burnt alive, slave armies, etc, would all make sense. But at this point, it seems like you've almost started over with a new cast of characters.

Super conspiracy theory - Martin says the hell with the books, finishes the series on HBO, leading to the gnashing of teeth.

TLDR - The last two books have the potential to turn into Season 5 of the Wire - too many new characters, too unbelievable in the approach to weave these characters into the overall universe of the show.

Oh, and on-topic, great trailer!!!

[Abaddon]

Fair enough. I'm constructing a plan for a potential S4 and 5 which will have AFFC/ADWD/Battle of Fire in 10 episodes. I can PM you it once I'm finished if you'd like. Either you'll be won round or I'll make a fool of myself :P.

Hey, it always helps to see something written out. Maybe I'll change my mind. Definitely PM me when you have something to share.

[Talleyrand]

Could the man on the horse near the end be Theon in an escape attempt from the Dreadfort, or intentionally let out for a hunt.

[Wouter]

There is no way a TV audience can be expected to to follow the already complex plotlines (for a TV series) with introduction of all new plotlines without a field reference guide. If it where a soap opera that had no beginning or end, then introducing the Ironborn plot, the Martells, the Dornish, the city states, the rock people, sending Sam away for training, people showing up and getting burnt alive, slave armies, etc, would all make sense. But at this point, it seems like you've almost started over with a new cast of characters.

The people on the "Television without pity" forums, unspoiled speculation thread, seem to have little trouble figuring it all out though. (part of) TV audiences can be sophisticated, too.

[Abaddon]

I've had a premonition for a while now that D&D will 'retire' into Exec VP roles on the show after S4 and Cogman will become the head writer/show-runner, probably delegating more of the workload at the same time. The reasoning here is very much gut instinct and nothing I could point to remotely conclusively. Just how much they are pointing to S3 as "where they hoped they'd get" and the fact that they've been killing themselves (let's not kid ourselves about that) for the last six-seven years making this happen. Faced with the task of adapting AFFC and ADWD, which is going to be a daunting challenge no matter how they slice it, if they do decide they want to step aside it's the logical time for it. I can't see them doing this after S3, but after S4? Maybe. I hope not, for the record.

Every time I think that, I think "no way". They're going to want to see it out. Which is probably more likely anyway.

[jmk51]

The people on the "Television without pity" forums, unspoiled speculation thread, seem to have little trouble figuring it all out though. (part of) TV audiences can be sophisticated, too.

True, but that's like 0.01% of the people who watch the show, much like this forum. The hardcore TV watchers will make an effort to figure it out, the majority will be like "WTF??" I actually wonder how many people are going to start groveling over the increase in, not necessarily pure magic, but some of the more "high fantasy" aspects, like Berbic, un-cat, the dude in the tree?

[Nezzer]

Maybe they decided to up the tragedy factor because the RW alone isnt enough :)

Maybe Ygritte is not pointing the Bow at Jon in the trailer, but at another wildling that is trying to stop Jon from fleeing.

She says "I love you" and lets him go, Jon runs back to castle black and the wildlings turn on Ygritte killing her.

Jon doesn't find out until the battle at Castle Black in season 4 when he captures Orell and asks "wheres Ygritte?", "Dead". Heartbreak

Muhahaha

Actually, I think that would weaken the impact of her death. There would be no talk about castles and no "You know nothing, Jon Snow". Another think I like about her death in the book is that Jon is unsure if it was his arrow that killed her.

[Nezzer]

True, but that's like 0.01% of the people who watch the show, much like this forum. The hardcore TV watchers will make an effort to figure it out, the majority will be like "WTF??" I actually wonder how many people are going to start groveling over the increase in, not necessarily pure magic, but some of the more "high fantasy" aspects, like Berbic, un-cat, the dude in the tree?

I think many people will like it, if not most of them. There are a lot of viewers that got into the show because of the Wall and the White Walkers and another bunch because of the dragons. Other than The Hobbit, there has been almost nothing of good fantasy out there since LOTR. Many, many people miss fantasy.

[turdle]

I'll defend them - they are making a much better tv show than you or I could. I really don't understand why people with this attitude are still watching the show. Why bother? Your rigid views on D&D mean you will not be able to be objective about the show your just be spotting any changes and go 'that sucks'. Changes are made as it is an entirely different way of telling a stiry, they don't sit there and think how can we piss off 'turdle' today. If you are unable to separate the books and the show you will never be happy.

and based on what, have you determined that my views are rigid? is it my avatar which comes from a show deviation from the book? is it the way i've conceded points made by people during this discussion on this thread?

don't you think you've painted me with a bit of a broad stroke since i've only actually criticized one specific thing in this thread? is it possible that i may have honest doubts about the way the show is being handled, without me being a troll just here to ruin everyone's party? i posted in this thread over my concern that the trailer shows catylin and robb in winterfel. some people here were kind enough to have an honest discussion about that, some people here wanted to hang me from the rafters for ever insiuating that D&D would do something that we all seem to think would be a bad decision.

it's actually ok to have a critical opinion about things you don't like AND things you do like. if you're not comfortable with people expressing criticism about this show, i'd recommend you don't venture on to this forum during the season, because there will be many people who will offer it.

[Born Yesterday]

High there, I just registerd to say this:

Catelyn in the trailer (00:25). Saying "Show them how it feels to lose what they love". And wearing a scarf tight around her throat. So...

Did... did we just meet UnCat?? :blink:

Could it be that this is episode 10, post-RW? That she's talking to Beric and the BwB? And that the producers decided to do away with scary, half-decomposed, so-much-for-vocal-cords UnCat, and replace her with a Resurrected Cat who looks and sounds perfectly normal (except her throat is cut, hence the scarf)???

I hope not. UnCat's reveal was jawdropping in the books, because it was a twist that combined hope and dread. Take the dread away, and what do you have left? A deus ex machina that probably feels cheap.

Well, I should give them the benefit of a doubt, I guess. We'll see how they'll handle it. And besides, maybe I'm mistaken, and this isn't UnCat at all, and the scarf is simply a (debatable) fashion choice.

But then, where is the scene from? When/where else could Cat deliver this line, and to whom? Some say she's talking to Roose Bolton, but that doesn't make sense to me. "Show them how it feels to lose what they love". Show the Lannisters? What do the Lannisters love, and how can Roose Bolton take it away from them at that point?

I'm open to suggestions. :)