Official Game of Thrones Season 3 Trailer Now Live

[protar]

Two seasons for two books is hardly "as long as possible". Given how crammed S2 was I think you could slash heavily from AFFC and ADWD and still end up with enough material for two very good seasons. Ten episodes averaging 500 minutes of time (remember to subtract the intro and credits) really isn't as much time as you are giving it credit for being. I would agree that S6 should be the ADWD that was planned and not what we got, meaning it should be crowned with

the battles of ice (Stannis vs. Boltons/Freys) and fire (Mereen).

I think that would be the perfect place to end S6 and then have S7+8 be the rest of TWOW and ADOS.

Finishing Dance by the end of S5 is problematic in two important ways; it slashes far too much GOOD story (it would make S2 look positively generous) and it also gives George less time to get TWOW in good enough shape that D&D can do a series based on it, without it diverging too radically. Even then I have no idea what they're going to do about A Dream of Spring...

(And frankly, I'm getting tired of fan bleating about how bad the last two books were (they weren't). In that case, you should want D&D to stretch out ASOS as much as possible and then just write off the rest of the series, since it's too dull and boring to be bothered with. There's no reason to think it's going to get a lot better since the last 'good' book was published 13 years ago, right?)

They are by no means bad books, but to deny that they are slow, with major events few and far between in comparison to the rest of the series is just refusing to see the truth. There's nothing wrong with enjoying books like that, but that kind of pace does not make for good TV.

The events in AFFC/ADWD concluding with the battle of fire (ice for S6.) could be compressed into a 12 episode season imo, especially if D+D have the good sense to move plenty of AFFC/ADWD stuff to S4. I really need to get round to making a fully fledged projection for how that would work.

As for George's writing, I see no reason why TWOW cannot be released in 2014 and ADOS as early as 2016 providing he keeps up a decent pace. That leaves plenty of time for him to keep ahead of the series. If an 8th book is required then we have a problem but even then a year out (Shows do do that.), or a miniseries on Dunk and Egg is possible. My projected timeline:

2011: Season 1 - GOT. ADWD released

2012: Season 2 - COK

2013: Season 3 - SOS P1

2014: Season 3 - SOS P1, AFFC/ADWD P1. TWOW released.

2015: Season 5 - AFFC/ADWD P2. TWOW P2

2016: Season 6 - TWOW P2. ADOS released

2017: Season 7 - ADOS.

2018: Season 8 - Book 8. Book 8 released.

[Lord Varys]

AFfC and ADwD can't be condensed too much. They have to explore Cersei's downfall, the Ironborn and Dornish plots, Arya's tutelage in Braavos, the Aegon plot, Stannis' campaign, and Jon and Dany's attempts to lead in detail.

They can't skip or condense much of this stuff since that's actually build-up for the future. They can't ignore that.

[boojam]

(And frankly, I'm getting tired of fan bleating about how bad the last two books were (they weren't). In that case, you should want D&D to stretch out ASOS as much as possible and then just write off the rest of the series, since it's too dull and boring to be bothered with. There's no reason to think it's going to get a lot better since the last 'good' book was published 13 years ago, right?)

Even tho I am critical of novels 4 and 5, still, I agree with you they are pretty good because George is such a good story teller.

Even if it's not action packed Arya's story spans FoC and ADwD ,and I was very entertained by her strange story.

I can't even remember if Tyrion is in FoC? His road trip across the narrow sea and to slaver's bay really held my attention.

The rise of the Greyjoy's stories, in particular Asha's story gears up, some action there.

Brienne's road story is interesting even if parts of it go nowhere.

The biggest zinger is in the last part of ADwD with 'Dany in the Pit'.

One odd thing about FoC and ADwD is there is a lot of Wildling wangling , but where did the Others go?

They are coming south at a snails pace!

Else wise not jam packed thrill battles.

I don't know D and D may be doing a lot of Jazzing up for season 5.

[Abaddon]

They are by no means bad books, but to deny that they are slow, with major events few and far between in comparison to the rest of the series is just refusing to see the truth.

No, it's refusing to agree with an opinion. There is a difference. And I'm not denying they are slow. I'm denying that they are so slow, so made up of filler, that they could be condensed down into 500 minutes (less actually, since the Iron Islands stuff from AFFC is likely to be moved into S4) without chopping a lot of great material.

There's nothing wrong with enjoying books like that, but that kind of pace does not make for good TV.

Neither does cramming too much material into too little time. Which is what you're suggesting. (Not factually, in my opinion). It makes for a disjointed and rushed experience that suffers in comparison to the original, like S2. I think a S5+S6 AFFC (minus iron islands) + ADWD + beginning of TWOW would be as perfect as they can do with the restrictions they have. That's a lot of material there, and there's going to have to be a ton of stuff slashed even to make that work.

The events in AFFC/ADWD concluding with the battle of fire (ice for S6.) could be compressed into a 12 episode season imo, especially if D+D have the good sense to move plenty of AFFC/ADWD stuff to S4. I really need to get round to making a fully fledged projection for how that would work.

Since they are on record as not doing 12 episode seasons, please make it 10. You'll have a fun time doing that. If the PW does end up in S3 (I don't think it will) that will make your job a little easier, and I think it would lend some credence to the idea that D&D want to rush through the series more rapidly. (Or, they want to add a lot of filler of their own... I am sure that will make folks happy).

As for George's writing, I see no reason why TWOW cannot be released in 2014 and ADOS as early as 2016 providing he keeps up a decent pace. That leaves plenty of time for him to keep ahead of the series. If an 8th book is required then we have a problem but even then a year out (Shows do do that.), or a miniseries on Dunk and Egg is possible. My projected timeline:

You're more optimistic than I am. You really think TWOW can be *released* within the next year?

2011: Season 1 - GOT. ADWD released

2012: Season 2 - COK

2013: Season 3 - SOS P1

2014: Season 3 - SOS P1, AFFC/ADWD P1. TWOW released.

2015: Season 5 - AFFC/ADWD P2. TWOW P2

2016: Season 6 - TWOW P2. ADOS released

2017: Season 7 - ADOS.

2018: Season 8 - Book 8. Book 8 released.

Actually, I don't see it as all that different. I think there will be 8 seasons as well, but I don't think we're going to see an 8th book.

[oierem]

Battle of Castle Black or not, Ygritte should be killed this season, as it's the logical ending to Jon's personal arc. Not doing so would be almost as stupid as not having the PW this season. Remember that Jon and Ygritte will never interact again after the events of this season, so her death would be totally anticlimatic.

I think she will die this season, though. We know that Iceland will appear in the first five episodes. Therefore, the climbing of the wall will be episode 6 (the bits from the trailer look like 100% Alik Sakharov shots), and Queenscrown in episode 7 (as was guessed a long time ago because of the title of the episode). If Jon arrives to the wall in episode 10 (which seems a good way to end the storyline), that leaves us two critical episodes, the climax of the season, without material for Jon. I think it's safe to say that, somehow, they've managed to expand Queenscrown and/or kill Ygritte in the process.

And about Dany, it's clear that we're having both Astapor and Yunkai, based on the leaked videos, and it seems logical. She doesn't have enough material for the upcoming seasons, so they HAVE to include all three cities. This season is easy. Next season won't be: her two Meereen chapters from ASOS, action packed as they are, won't be enough for the whole season, so ADWD will be used as well. So, how will her storyline end in season 4? The wedding is the only reasonable point, and that forces the rest of the storylines to advance as well.

[King Tommen]

I will wager a significant amount of money on Ygritte biting it by the end of this season (probably in E10).

[Carne]

It would be strange if they ended Jon's arc with his arrival at Castle Black leaving the wildling party south of the Wall on hold until season 4. If we had the battle of Castle Black on season 3, both Jon and the wildling would had their arcs finished perfectly. I doubt they will bring Ygritte back in season 4 just to kill her in the first episode. And one day is plenty of time to film that battle. Remember that the Castle Black set is in Northern Ireland, not in Iceland, and the battle of Castle Black is a relatively small battle anyway.

I've talked to people who was there for the filming of the Castle Black scene; no battle. No way they would have managed to film it in 1 day.

The battle might not happen until several episodes into season 4. They don't have to do it in episode 1.

[Abaddon]

I will wager a significant amount of money on Ygritte biting it by the end of this season (probably in E10).

Yeah, *unlike* PW in S3 I can't imagine them keeping her around for S4, when all she has to do is die. Her death has no impact on anyone (or anything) other than Jon (and viewers).

I've talked to people who was there for the filming of the Castle Black scene; no battle. No way they would have managed to film it in 1 day.

As much as I hate to say it, maybe they simply won't show us the battle. (Bleaugh). I guess they could have her die in some sort of skirmish or some alternate way. Not a fan of any of that though. I guess I'd rather have them drag her arc out over the next season rather than skip the battle or alter how she dies.

[Nick_Scryer]

Maybe they decided to up the tragedy factor because the RW alone isnt enough :)

Maybe Ygritte is not pointing the Bow at Jon in the trailer, but at another wildling that is trying to stop Jon from fleeing.

She says "I love you" and lets him go, Jon runs back to castle black and the wildlings turn on Ygritte killing her.

Jon doesn't find out until the battle at Castle Black in season 4 when he captures Orell and asks "wheres Ygritte?", "Dead". Heartbreak

Muhahaha

[protar]

The show should stay as close to the books as possible, so yes, that's how it SHOULD work on the show. There's also a REASON that's the exact course of events in the books - because it makes far more sense than what you're suggesting.

As close to the books as possible, yeah. I'd love it if we could have a perfectly accurate adaptation of the series but sadly that is not the case. If D+D see an opportunity to make a couple of minor changes in order to create a better, more streamlined season of TV, then they're going to take it.

We know that 'Mhysa' takes place outside the city just like in the book. That means that, if Meereen is replacing Yunkai, Dany has forced the Meereenese to surrender its slaves. If this is the case, there is simply no reason for her to stay and rule because she doesn't want to rule over slavers. Do you understand?

No I don't understand. I fear that's it's you not understanding here, as you seem unable to comprehend any course of events that isn't exactly like your precious Mysha scene in the books. Dany can defeat Meereen, decide to rule and then the freed slaves come out of the city to greet her and we get the outside scene we know has been filmed. What is the problem with that.

Dany has TWO chapters post-Yunkai. No, they cannot be dragged across the whole season, but am I saying they should be? What I'm saying is that they should be included in season four rather than bringing so much (weak) material from ADwD forward. They can show the assassination attempt, show the building relationship between her and Daario, do the Barristan/Jorah reveal, show the march towards Meereen and the 163 crucified slave children, the duel against Meereen's "hero", Barristan and Jorah's entry through the sewers, the sack of the city, Dany's march into Meereen, the crucifying of the Great Masters, her attempting to clean up after the sack, and finally hearing the envoy from Astapor/King Cleon, learning of the fates of Astapor and Yunkai, and choosing to stay in Meereen so that it does not return to slavery.

You say you don't suggest stretching those two chapters over an entire season, but then your suggests just that.

As you can see, a LOT of content happens in those two chapters. And you want to get rid of them to bring forward material from ADwD that is far, far weaker by comparison? And, as it stands, most viewers will enjoy Dany's scenes a LOT more if they think she's heading towards Westeros than if she's just lounging around in Meereen.

I don't want to get rid of them, I want to put them at the end of season 3, across three or four episodes. That "weaker" material has to air at some point unless they completely deviate from the story (which I don't think either of us want.). Why not bring it forwards to S4 instead of including it in whats going to be a very cramped season 5?

There are plenty of benefits of keeping Yunkai. It means they don't have to bring forward too much material from ADwD, viewers will be less frustrated (Dany is marching to Westeros is a lot more enjoyable than Dany is ruling in Meereen), and it also shows respect for the books and the nuances of Dany's characterisation. Without Yunkai, Dany doesn't get the lesson that she needs to sack a city to prevent it from turning against her and regaining its power. Moreover, if you merge Yunkai and Meereen, Dany never conquers a city - it opens its gates to her. Plus there's then no reason to start cleaning up after the sack if the city opens its gates because she wouldn't sack it. And the fact that there was a sack is a huge deal to her character and the later events that occur.

I admit that there are little nuances of Dany's story that will be lost, and I don't like that. I think that ultimately it's a necessary sacrifice. It's not a huge change, and let's be honest, creating a boring stretched out arc for Dany will be wasting those nuances as well. But let's be honest, is that lesson about having to sack a city to keep it in check so important? She sacks Astapor and it rises up again, she doesn't sack Yunkai and that rises up again. It goes wrong both ways. I think the actual lesson is that she needs to rule a city to stop things going to hell, rather than just leaving it be. That lesson will be kept it.

I just think it's incredibly naive to think that they could just merge Yunkai and Meereen without there being serious implications on Dany's character and story. But I have absolutely no belief that D&D will merge them, so I'm not sure why I'm even bothering to argue about it. GRRM has said in interviews that season four will cover the second half of A Storm of Swords with maybe some scenes from A Feast for Crows and A Dance with Dragons. If they completely included all of Dany's material in ASoS in season three like you're suggesting, surely GRRM would have known that they would need to bring forward a LOT of ADwD material?

And they can't just bring so much ADwD material into season four, because the only reason any of Dany's story in ADwD even takes place is because she needs to wait for Tyrion and Victarion to arrive. If they bring forward her ADwD material before they can arrive, they just have to make up their own material to keep Dany there even longer.

Martin is not completely involved in the show and S4 has not been written yet. He can't say with any certainty how much of ADWD will be in and nor is he obliged to tell us everything he knows.

As for why Dany is staying in Meereen, that is simply the doylist perspective for why she's there. She's not actually waiting for Tyrion. And there's no need to invent new ADWD material either. Having all of Dany's chapters from ADWD upto her wedding with Hizdahr (chapter 6 or 7 I believe) will then allow her to fly off on Drogon on say S5 E7, a then we can move into the battle of fire for the end of the season. No invented material required, unlike your suggestion which requires two chapters stretched over an entire season.

[SerBearroll]

Maybe they decided to up the tragedy factor because the RW alone isnt enough :)

Maybe Ygritte is not pointing the Bow at Jon in the trailer, but at another wildling that is trying to stop Jon from fleeing.

She says "I love you" and lets him go, Jon runs back to castle black and the wildlings turn on Ygritte killing her.

Jon doesn't find out until the battle at Castle Black in season 4 when he captures Orell and asks "wheres Ygritte?", "Dead". Heartbreak

Muhahaha

I could see this happening.

They could even add something like them escaping together(I know it makes no sense, other then increased drama) and as they flee Orell wargs into some animal and pursues them, killing Ygritte in the process. Jon's story arc ends with him arriving at Castle Black and burning Ygritte's body.

[Abaddon]

I could see this happening.

They could even add something like them escaping together(I know it makes no sense, other then increased drama) and as they flee Orell wargs into some animal and pursues them, killing Ygritte in the process. Jon's story arc ends with him arriving at Castle Black and burning Ygritte's body.

Or she gets shot with an arrow while escaping, the wound festers and she dies in Ep10 at the Wall. I see no reason to spoiler this since it is made up anyway :).

Either would require a major change in Ygritte's character... not sure how I feel about that.

[Woman of War]

(And frankly, I'm getting tired of fan bleating about how bad the last two books were (they weren't). In that case, you should want D&D to stretch out ASOS as much as possible and then just write off the rest of the series, since it's too dull and boring to be bothered with. There's no reason to think it's going to get a lot better since the last 'good' book was published 13 years ago, right?)

:agree: :agree: someone had to write this!

And I am tired to read that all "real" fans have to dislike the series since D&D have no idea what the really important storylines and characters are.

I loved AFFC and ADWD as much as the other books and D&D are doing a great job even if some decisions could have been different and might have worked just as well.

[protar]

No, it's refusing to agree with an opinion. There is a difference. And I'm not denying they are slow. I'm denying that they are so slow, so made up of filler, that they could be condensed down into 500 minutes (less actually, since the Iron Islands stuff from AFFC is likely to be moved into S4) without chopping a lot of great material.

I'm not sure what you mean here. Surely if the Iron Islands is moved into S4 then that will leave more room to adapt the rest of AFFC/ADWD?

Neither does cramming too much material into too little time. Which is what you're suggesting. (Not factually, in my opinion). It makes for a disjointed and rushed experience that suffers in comparison to the original, like S2. I think a S5+S6 AFFC (minus iron islands) + ADWD + beginning of TWOW would be as perfect as they can do with the restrictions they have. That's a lot of material there, and there's going to have to be a ton of stuff slashed even to make that work.

I think you're underestimating how much material it is possible to move into S4. Dorne, the Iron Isles, Bran up to Meeting BR, Dany up until marrying Hizdahr, and Brienne's quest are all potential plot lines to be moved forwards. That means more space to adapt the rest of the books.

Since they are on record as not doing 12 episode seasons, please make it 10. You'll have a fun time doing that. If the PW does end up in S3 (I don't think it will) that will make your job a little easier, and I think it would lend some credence to the idea that D&D want to rush through the series more rapidly. (Or, they want to add a lot of filler of their own... I am sure that will make folks happy).

They've gone on record saying they don't want to do that at the moment and that they can only fit in 10 episodes with their current shooting schedule. I see no reason why they can't change the opinion if they deem it necessary.

But hey I'll make a 10 episode plan, I like a challenge ;)

You're more optimistic than I am. You really think TWOW can be *released* within the next year?

Yes I do. That's three years, a perfectly reasonable amount of time to write a book. All of the problems that delayed Feast and Dance are gone. Now all there is to account for is the lessened writing pace due to his involvement with the show.

Actually, I don't see it as all that different. I think there will be 8 seasons as well, but I don't think we're going to see an 8th book.

Well in that case it's even more optimistic, as there will be no race to get the last book out in time.

[PatrickStormborn]

As close to the books as possible, yeah. I'd love it if we could have a perfectly accurate adaptation of the series but sadly that is not the case. If D+D see an opportunity to make a couple of minor changes in order to create a better, more streamlined season of TV, then they're going to take it.

No, they're not. They don't want to bring ADwD forward; they want to stay on ASoS for as long as possible.

No I don't understand. I fear that's it's you not understanding here, as you seem unable to comprehend any course of events that isn't exactly like your precious Mysha scene in the books. Dany can defeat Meereen, decide to rule and then the freed slaves come out of the city to greet her and we get the outside scene we know has been filmed. What is the problem with that.

My "precious Mysha (sic) scene" LMFAO.

You don't understand how it works. Yunkai surrenders to Daenerys because she defeats their "army" (we know this takes place from preview footage where she negotiates with the sellswords). She forces them to release their slaves and they hail her as Mhysa. If you merge Meereen with Yunkai, she does not conquer the city, it surrenders itself to her. And, as the slaves are RELEASED, there is NO REASON for her to stay because THERE ARE NO LONGER SLAVES FOR HER TO CARE ABOUT. If the 'Mhysa' scene took place in the city I would agree that your suggestion is likely. However, as it stands, it won't happen.

Why should Dany stay in Meereen if two cities don't fall to slavery again? Astapor has to be destroyed and Yunkai needs to declare war on her for it to be necessary to stay in Meereen. She also needs to sack the city and kill the Great Masters for her story in ADwD. But if she sacks the city and kills the GM after they've surrendered, she goes straight into Tywin Lannister territory. This is not going to happen.

You say you don't suggest stretching those two chapters over an entire season, but then your suggests just that.

No, I don't. I just mentioned what happens in those two chapters. They could still bring forward material from ADwD. I was just demonstrating how much happens.

I don't want to get rid of them, I want to put them at the end of season 3, across three or four episodes. That "weaker" material has to air at some point unless they completely deviate from the story (which I don't think either of us want.). Why not bring it forwards to S4 instead of including it in whats going to be a very cramped season 5?

You said they should combine Yunkai and Meereen. If that's the case, you're suggesting they should cut a significant portion of Dany's material.

I admit that there are little nuances of Dany's story that will be lost, and I don't like that. I think that ultimately it's a necessary sacrifice. It's not a huge change, and let's be honest, creating a boring stretched out arc for Dany will be wasting those nuances as well. But let's be honest, is that lesson about having to sack a city to keep it in check so important? She sacks Astapor and it rises up again, she doesn't sack Yunkai and that rises up again. It goes wrong both ways. I think the actual lesson is that she needs to rule a city to stop things going to hell, rather than just leaving it be. That lesson will be kept it.

Yes, actually, it is a hugely important lesson. If she had've sacked Yunkai it would not have been able to raise an army against her, and she could have returned to Astapor without worrying about losing Meereen.

Martin is not completely involved in the show and S4 has not been written yet. He can't say with any certainty how much of ADWD will be in and nor is he obliged to tell us everything he knows.

You missed my point. GRRM is part of the writing process. If all of Dany's ASoS material is in season 3, he'll know. This means he would know that they'd have to include her ADwD material in season 4, yes?

As for why Dany is staying in Meereen, that is simply the doylist perspective for why she's there. She's not actually waiting for Tyrion. And there's no need to invent new ADWD material either. Having all of Dany's chapters from ADWD upto her wedding with Hizdahr (chapter 6 or 7 I believe) will then allow her to fly off on Drogon on say S5 E7, a then we can move into the battle of fire for the end of the season. No invented material required, unlike your suggestion which requires two chapters stretched over an entire season.

Dany is only there FROM A META PERSPECTIVE so that Tyrion can reach her.

Erm, if you have all of Dany's material in season 4 upto the wedding... there's nothing left for season 5. Literally all she does after the wedding is go to the Fighting Pits, ride Drogon and then walk around the Dothraki Sea. That's two episodes of material.

But anyway, I'm done arguing about this. Firstly: they're not going to merge Yunkai and Meereen, and secondly: they probably won't bother to adapt AFfC or ADwD anyway.

[SerBearroll]

Or she gets shot with an arrow while escaping, the wound festers and she dies in Ep10 at the Wall. I see no reason to spoiler this since it is made up anyway :).

Either would require a major change in Ygritte's character... not sure how I feel about that.

I though Orell should be somehow involved if he's Jon's big Wildling antagonist.

I'm not sure how I feel about this possible change either, but I put my trust into the producers and I hope they will do the right thing.

[DragonAge93]

Battle at the Wall will not happen this season. Several articles I've read, and even D+D I believe, have said they are asking HBO for more money for season 4 for a battle "bigger than Blackwater". There's already so much happening this season, I don't want to see the battle at the Wall tacked on half-assed just to get it out of the way. It can be just as epic, if not more, than Blackwater, if done right, which I know D+D can most likely do.

[Wouter]

As for George's writing, I see no reason why TWOW cannot be released in 2014 and ADOS as early as 2016 providing he keeps up a decent pace. That leaves plenty of time for him to keep ahead of the series. If an 8th book is required then we have a problem but even then a year out (Shows do do that.), or a miniseries on Dunk and Egg is possible. My projected timeline:

Can shows go on hiatus for a year and yet come back with all the important actors? Any examples?

I think a book 8 will be necessary and I am pessimistic about the release dates for TWOW and ADOS. Martin has not kept up a decent pace for a decade now, and he has taken up even more competing projects now with the HBO producer job. He also hasn't been giving hints that the writing on TWOW is going well, or any optimistic estimates of his writing time. Depending on what the HBO job he has taken entails exactly, I think we may have to wait a long time yet for TWOW, and if the bulk of AFFC/ADWD doesn't take 2 seasons (in addition to any parts moved to S4) D&D may already overtake Martin before he even gets TWOW out.

[PatrickStormborn]

Can shows go on hiatus for a year and yet come back with all the important actors? Any examples?

I think a book 8 will be necessary and I am pessimistic about the release dates for TWOW and ADOS. Martin has not kept up a decent pace for a decade now, and he has taken up even more competing projects now with the HBO producer job. He also hasn't been giving hints that the writing on TWOW is going well, or any optimistic estimates of his writing time. Depending on what the HBO job he has taken entails exactly, I think we may have to wait a long time yet for TWOW, and if the bulk of AFFC/ADWD doesn't take 2 seasons (in addition to any parts moved to S4) D&D may already overtake Martin before he even gets TWOW out.

Yeah, there's almost no chance of TWoW being released next year. It will be 2015 at the very earliest IMO, unless Martin has been sitting on loads of material that he hasn't told anyone about. And there's also a very large chance of him needing three books to complete the series.

[BlackTalon]

(And frankly, I'm getting tired of fan bleating about how bad the last two books were (they weren't). In that case, you should want D&D to stretch out ASOS as much as possible and then just write off the rest of the series, since it's too dull and boring to be bothered with.

:agree: :agree: someone had to write this!

And I am tired to read that all "real" fans have to dislike the series since D&D have no idea what the really important storylines and characters are.

I loved AFFC and ADWD as much as the other books and D&D are doing a great job even if some decisions could have been different and might have worked just as well.

Quoted for truth.

Some people should rather be reading "Star Trek" and "Transformers" movie tie-in novels, that way their gnat-like attention span won't be overly taxed by nasty descriptions of exotic cultures and tedious plot development between breathless action sequences.