Tyrion's prowess in battle is one of the more ridiculous things in all of ASOIAF

[Winter's Knight]

I think this bugs me because, well damnit, you're writing about a disabled character, you don't get to "cheat" by negating the very real limitations folks have to live with. It comes off as a little cheap to try and get the reader to empathise with Tyrion because he's a disabled character in a medieval world while opting out of the limitations of such a premise at will.

[StannisBamfatheon]

I think this bugs me because, well damnit, you're writing about a disabled character, you don't get to "cheat" by negating the very real limitations folks have to live with. It comes off as a little cheap to try and get the reader to empathise with Tyrion because he's a disabled character in a medieval world while opting out of the limitations of such a premise at will.

I mean I understand GRRM is not perfect, but it does seem like a tremendous oversight. I think his aim though was to have the reader not really understand which side to "root" for during the battle. One side has the unlikelable, unflappable, Stannis Baratheon in league with a mysterious and dangerous sorcerous but he his the true king in terms of the laws of succession, and on the other the detestable lannisters but they are lead by Tyrion who up until this point is incredibly likable. I guess the passage is mean as a "fuck yeah tyrion!" sort of vicarious moment, given that grrm has stated ad nauseum Tyrion's his favorite character, but it felt a little unbelievable.

[Queen‍‍‍‍‍‍ Alysanne‍‍™]

I mean I understand GRRM is not perfect, but it does seem like a tremendous oversight. I think his aim though was to have the reader not really understand which side to "root" for during the battle. One side has the unlikelable, unflappable, Stannis Baratheon in league with a mysterious and dangerous sorcerous but he his the true king in terms of the laws of succession, and on the other the detestable lannisters but they are lead by Tyrion who up until this point is incredibly likable. I guess the passage is mean as a "fuck yeah tyrion!" sort of vicarious moment, given that grrm has stated ad nauseum Tyrion's his favorite character, but it felt a little unbelievable.

:bs:

[StannisBamfatheon]

:bs:

where did i misspeak? I'd love an actual intelligent conversation and not an emoticon duel

[Queen‍‍‍‍‍‍ Alysanne‍‍™]

where did i misspeak? I'd love an actual intelligent conversation and not an emoticon duel

I believe every reader is free to root who they want too, I don't think GRRM wanted to confuse anyone.

[StannisBamfatheon]

I believe every reader is free to root who they want too, I don't think GRRM wanted to confuse anyone.

Yes but he never presented either side as unequivocally good or bad, both parts were mixed. If not confuse atleast make it ambiguous. I still feel like he greatly wanted the reader to empathize with Tyrion

[Queen‍‍‍‍‍‍ Alysanne‍‍™]

Yes but he never presented either side as unequivocally good or bad, both parts were mixed. If not confuse atleast make it ambiguous. I still feel like he greatly wanted the reader to empathize with Tyrion

Ok maybe thats true, but I think the main reason most people sided with the lannisters in that battle, is because Sansa was in KL and could of been killed by Cersei and as you stated Tyrion, so 2 favourites were on the lannister side.

[StannisBamfatheon]

Ok maybe thats true, but I think the main reason most people sided with the lannisters in that battle, is because Sansa was in KL and could of been killed by Cersei and as you stated Tyrion, so 2 favourites were on the lannister side.

Fair enough, it was really unfortunate that Sansa's life hinged on what was essentially Lannister blackmail should the city fall. I was never really a huge Stannis fan until "the king who cared" but I was pulling for him, if for nothing else than justice for Ned, Jory, and all the rest. Sadly that was put on hold by Tywin and Tyrells.

[Mad Monkey]

T

Fair enough, it was really unfortunate that Sansa's life hinged on what was essentially Lannister blackmail should the city fall. I was never really a huge Stannis fan until "the king who cared" but I was pulling for him, if for nothing else than justice for Ned, Jory, and all the rest. Sadly that was put on hold by Tywin and Tyrells.

Same here. I can't imagine that Stannis would have hurt Sansa if he had taken KL. Cersei might have though.

[WildBlood]

Fair enough, it was really unfortunate that Sansa's life hinged on what was essentially Lannister blackmail should the city fall. I was never really a huge Stannis fan until "the king who cared" but I was pulling for him, if for nothing else than justice for Ned, Jory, and all the rest. Sadly that was put on hold by Tywin and Tyrells.

I for one would have LOVED KL to fall and Sansa be beheaded/killed/tortured et al, but I suppose I am in the minority on that front.

OT: I think GRRM wrote the aforementioned Tyrion scenes the way he did because Tyrion is his personal favorite character, and didn't realize until hindsight that it was a bit ridiculous.

[Dragonmag170]

We're supposed to believe that a 7 year old boy can out climb grown guards at Winterfell.

Actually... I believe this one fully. I was the same way. A 7 year old who has been climbing pretty consistently every day and knows exactly where to put his hands and feed should easily be able to out climb a guard in armor who hasnt tried to climb the surface before.

As to Tyrion... I agree with OP, to a degree. I actually think that being shorter could be a bit of an advantage in battle as well as a disadvantage; he would be a little harder to notice immediately. Assuming he didnt get trampled, he probably could do a good bit of damage when he is in a line of his friends going against his disjointed enemies. All the same, its a little crazy what he does on the Blackwater.

[Black Mike Secret]

The people trying to make sense of Tyrion owning people in battle just boggle my mind.

He's maybe 4 feet tall at the highest. Cramps walking up stairs and, as many have pointed out, would have a really hard time riding a horse. Being that short is a tremendous disadvantage, and being barely able to walk is another tremendous disadvantage.

[E-Ro]

I for one would have LOVED KL to fall and Sansa be beheaded/killed/tortured et al, but I suppose I am in the minority on that front.

So you wished for an 11 year old girl to be tortured and killed? Woah brah, that's some heavy shit. Sansa is fantastic imo, i would never wish any harm on her. And stannis would not have let anything happen to her either.

[StannisBamfatheon]

So you wished for an 11 year old girl to be tortured and killed? Woah brah, that's some heavy shit. Sansa is fantastic imo, i would never wish any harm on her. And stannis would not have let anything happen to her either.

Yeah for fuck's sake, this board has gotten dark.

[A Crow Come Over]

I guess killing a couple men at arms makes you the next Mountain That Rides according to the OP.

Whats so hard to believe about a dwarf killing someone with a battle axe?

[StannisBamfatheon]

I guess killing a couple men at arms makes you the next Mountain That Rides according to the OP.

Whats so hard to believe about a dwarf killing someone with a battle axe?

Read the passage, Tyrion seriously kills atleast 10 people in the Blackwater, and for a good part of it he's not mounted, it's a fair question to ask of a character who can barely summit stairs.

[Stannis Eats No Peaches]

I guess killing a couple men at arms makes you the next Mountain That Rides according to the OP.

Whats so hard to believe about a dwarf killing someone with a battle axe?

Tyrion is almost always described as someone who struggles to climb the stairs, but he cuts down soldiers like nobodies business. His reach would be much shorter than theirs etc.

[E-Ro]

I guess killing a couple men at arms makes you the next Mountain That Rides according to the OP.

Whats so hard to believe about a dwarf killing someone with a battle axe?

Yes, killing numerous men in battle is a great feat. Do you have any idea how how it is to kill someone in hand to hand with a close combat weapon? Most casualties happen when one side runs, and they are unable to defend themselves because they are fleeing. Killing 4 men in an actual fight is tiring and extremely hard.

[The Great Walrus]

Tyrion is almost always described as someone who struggles to climb the stairs, but he cuts down soldiers like nobodies business. His reach would be much shorter than theirs etc.

Not to mention his walk is consistently described as a waddle. You'd imagine that a character who is described as moving like a damn penguin wouldn't last 30 seconds in a battle.

[Theda Baratheon]

It is SO ridiculous, I mean fucking SERIOUSLY. Tyrion the golden boy. :ack:

Keep in mind that, during his initial meeting with Jon, Tyrion does a summersault when jumping down from a wall higher than Jons head, landing elegantly on his feet.

Tyrion is not clumsy. That might not be the way dwarves typically are in the real world, but IMHO he's to be thought of as a very, very unusual dwarf - more like a stocky child acrobat.

Yeh, and that was fucking ridiculous too LOL.