Cashless Society

Lysa Arryn

Next: Richard Gere

15 hours ago, lakin1013 said:

Why did you select only authors?  If the writer says one thing, the director of the scene says another, and the actor has their own interpretation - then I have to wonder where the story is going

I'm using the term loosely to include creators of a work, in this case, showrunners, director, actor etc. Ambiguous stories will always be open for interpretation, even to the creators involved.

Ridley Scott and Harrison Ford have differing opinions on the character of Deckard, that didn't stop Blade Runner from being a great film.

12 hours ago, Takiedevushkikakzvezdy said:

I don't understand how anyone can criticise the acting on HotD. Every major actor has knocked it out of the park so far. 

Some people were expecting Daniel Day-Lewis and Laurence Olivier to play every role.

4 hours ago, StarksInTheNorth said:

Can someone please explain why there were a bunch of river lords in the Storm Lands?

The river lords' scheme is to send over some their weaker candidates to other parts of the realm so that once Rhaenyra gets to the Riverlands, their real candidates look better by comparison. 

3 hours ago, lakin1013 said:

So you watched the show and was going to give it a 9, but since people here can't agree on a scene you decide lower your score 

 

 

No, not because people here can't agree, more because the actors, writers, and directors did not seem to have the same understanding of what Daemon was doing.  If they don't know, are we in good hands as viewers?

Why does authorial intent supersede all other aspects of the show?

10 hours ago, The Bard of Banefort said:

The extended conversations in Valyrian between Rhaenyra and Daemon felt really excessive and pointless. We get it, they're Targaryens. There's no reason for them not to talk in the common tongue when no one else is around.

But that is exactly how many multilingual people communicate with each other.

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Watching Viserys plow Alicent was extremely unpleasant. She looked dead. Were we supposed to interpret that as a rape?

Maybe, depending on your beliefs. Most likely, the show is asking the audience to have discussions on the utility of sex. There are many people who believe that sex for reproduction or as a conquest and sex as a means for pleasure doesn't really cross their minds. That's why the scene cross-cuts with Rhaenyra and Daemon. 

9 hours ago, butterweedstrover said:

I just don't get why Rhaenyra bullying her suitors is mic drop moment. 

Ignoring the political stupidity of offending noble houses for zero reason, why do viewers think it makes her so cool and likable? She is just plain mean. And spoiled. 

Audiences love sick burns. Why do you think Lady Olenna was such a popular character?

9 hours ago, Caligula_K3 said:

Some of the stuff that didn't work in this episode is because of the weakness of the last two. That never-ending sex scene seemed meant to convince us that Rhaenyra/Cole is a big deal, but I don't care, because the show hasn't put in the work to set it up (minus that weird boar scene last week).

I see them as two people who are attracted to each other. Attraction is easier to setup than romantic emotions. I read the scene as attracted people having sex for pleasure rather than a consummation of their romance. Whether you're convinced that the characters found it pleasurable on the other hand, is a different conversation. 

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I also wish we got more development for the Valeryon family last week, so the marriage would seem like a bigger deal. 

Agreed. As a matter of fact, I wish we had seen the Velaryons go to Braavos to meet with the Sealord and his son. I would have liked to have seen how Corlys handles diplomatic matters, as far in the show, he's mostly been complaining about the Stepstones during Small Council meetings. I also would have loved to have seen how the Sealord responds to a marriage proposal to a dragon rider given how the Braavosi feel about them.

10 hours ago, The Bard of Banefort said:

And I'm sure we all appreciated the very-on-the-nose foreshadowing of Rhaenyra's death.

Which one? When she's asked about knowing her death followed by the dragon shooting out flames. Or the on where, on her way to rendezvous with Daemon, we get a close-up of Drogon's skull with the rats feasting on his teeth with flames from the candle being the only light source?

Speaking of rats, is Cheese going to make an appearance anytime soon?

I gave it a 9. I think this might be the best episode of the season as there aren't any real flaws with the episode other than personal preferences. 

For me that was them again linking this show with the original show, why do they have to remind me about how bad that show got?

And Rhaenyra's commoner costume took me out of the show. It made me feel as though I was watching a Charles Dickens adaptation rather than medieval-inspired fantasy.

Meribald

Clancy Brown

45 minutes ago, Takiedevushkikakzvezdy said:

I'm not sure I agree with that, given how much they've humanised Alicent.

Perhaps they don't want to villainize the Green's too much by having a sympathetic character be part of their faction, similar to Tyrion or Davos in the early seasons.

4 hours ago, Takiedevushkikakzvezdy said:

What is the scene where Rhaenyra sees the white hart supposed to mean? That she's the rightful heir?

The white hart running away from her could also be seen as a symbol of rejection, foreshadowing how the she'll end up getting cut by the iron throne which many noblemen will interpret as her being rejected by the throne.

13 minutes ago, DMC said:

Yes.  Particularly when the apparent intent was to "surprise" the audience about Laenor's ability to ride a dragon.  I disagree with the way they did it too, but the way you posed the question -- certainly yes.

But the surprise, for this episode, should be followed up with an "aha, that makes sense" not " headscratching, can someone please explain this to me?".

21 hours ago, DMC said:

Perhaps.  Just saying these complaints seem decidedly nitpicky to me.

Can something really be called as a nitpick when it confuses a sizeable amount of the audience?

10 hours ago, Zorral said:

I just realized a big reason this episode was more appealing:  it got us out of King;s Landing, which must be about the most claustrophobic, dark, unpleasant, miserable, stifling city on television, whether in Got or HOT D.  One cannot imagine anyone in Westros saying about King's Landing, as Samuel Johnson did about London, “Sir, when a man is tired of London, he is tired of life; for there is in London all that life can afford.”

Having most of the events take place in KL is one of the reasons I've been the show so far. The 7 kingdoms are relatively peaceful during a fine extended Spring/Summer period. It would be a great time for members of the royal family to tour the realm. But instead, you've got all these self-serious nobles with an insular worldview that is reinforced by them being holed up in KL jockeying for power and sowing seeds for a completely avoidable war. I love it.

6 hours ago, EggBlue said:

I've got some complains about the show's editing which I think are mostly contributing to non-book readers' confusion . so I'm wondering what you guys think about these ? 

• it felt like two episodes . they should have put some  Stepstone +Crabfeeder scenes in the middle of the hunting/feast scenes . I liked the shift between war in stepstones and feast's extravagant table very much . it showed perfectly well why it's a good idea for Viserys to support the war.... too bad the show went on to finish hunting episode before visiting stepstones.

The editing definitely made it feel like it was two separate episodes (with the Stepstones portion looking like it got the short end of the stick) but thematically it was one episode, as there is a clear parallel between the arcs of Rhaenyra and Daemon (you could also include Viserys if you wanted to). There should've been a Stepstones scene that shows the logistical nightmare of the war. This scene should take place after Rhaenyra gets chased after Ser Criston (coming before Jason offers the spear to Viserys). A war council scene that emphasises the lowered morale of the soldiers should follow the scene where Viserys kills the stag. I think these scenes would provide better clarity and be in line with the themes of episode without the ruining the pacing of the episode. 

6 hours ago, EggBlue said:

 

• we don't EVEN HEAR why the hell Corlys allied himself with Daemon ! we don't see any gold cloaks or men specifically loyal to Daemon . there are all Velaryon men  and Velaryon dragon and then there's Daemon , Corlys's "teenager" adopted son with his odd pet ,who is causing them losses through his tantrums !

I'm not sure why this is a bother for you as theprevious episodes gave us all the relevant information on this. Corlys needs Viserys' permission to fight in the Stepstones, if he does so without Viserys' consent, Otto will convince the Viserys to punish him. Daemon, on the hand, can defy Viserys' orders without so much as a slap on the wrist. Corlys allying himself with Daemon ensures he won't suffer any consequences from Viserys but it also means that he has to put up with all of Daemon's bullshit. 

30 minutes ago, DMC said:

The "surprise" worked just fine - and wouldn't have been much of a surprise if they had already established that Laenor had a dragon (which, granted, would have led to much less confusion OTOH) - so I don't really get what you're complaining about.

But the confusion is what takes away from the audience's surprise. While there might not be anything wrong with the final scene, what I'm arguing went wrong is with the setup throughout the episode. 

A better way to go about it would be, at the start when Caraxes sends the crabmen into hiding, to have another dragon there as well, just don't show who the rider of it is. This forces the viewer to ask who has joined Daemon and Corlys. The first assumption would be Rhaenyra, looking to prove herself.

But when we go to the royal hunt and Rhaenyra is there, ruling her out as a possible candidate. So the only other option, as far as the viewer is concerned, is Rhaenys, as she is the only other Targareyan and only they ride dragons.

When Learnor brings up his plan to use Daemon as bait and his uncle cuts him off, viewers understand that the second dragon would be used to incinerate the remaining crabmen.

The main point of confusion comes when Daemon recieves the letter from his brother sending help. After beating up the messenger, Daemon just storms off, and so logically the viewers interpret this as him going on a suicide mission. Instead, after beating up the messenger, there should've been a slow fade to black and then fade in to Daemon on the rowboat as Viserys does the voice-over.

This instead introduces ambiguity as to whether Daemon is on a suicide mission or if he's going ahead with Laenor's plan. Also, since Rhaenys isn't seen during the war council, the mystery of who the second dragon rider is remains in the viewers mind. You can then have the rest of the scene play out as it did as now the audience would easily conclude that a rider does not need to be a Targareyan to be a dragon rider, just be a descendent of one as Laenor is.

37 minutes ago, DMC said:

It's not a book spoiler to say that was Laenor who came to the rescue at the end.  Certainly was confusing for non-book readers though..and even book-readers for that matter.  They had yet to establish he was a dragonrider - presumably for the surprise?

It was definitely for the surprise, but the way the episode was filmed and edited wasn't in a way that would captivate viewers or have them gripping their seats, so the surprise fell flat.

Weakest episode of the season so far, it was a 6.5 for me, but that score doesn't exist, so I gave it a 7.

I hope the writers will stick to a consistent vocabulary going forward, it was really jarring going from ages defined as fourteen and fifteen to six-and-ten. And the directing, cinematography and editing felt very tv-like, lacking the ambition of the previous 2 episodes whilst the performances felt more like a dress rehearsal than the final thing.

Hopefully this was just a slight dip and things pick back up next week. 

1 hour ago, C.T. Phipps said:

Notably he never takes off his gloves.

So he's not in good shape there.

He did have his gloves off when they returned to the red keep.  His pinky and ring finger are both completely gone.

So many questions this episode left us on, I hope that the fan theories don't turn out to be significantly better than the answers the show will give us.

Thanks for clearing things up @Ran. As for this episode

I'm a little confused on the whole Molly and Sarah aspect of this show:

9 hours ago, IFR said:

I was hoping for a story in which society would naturally react or evolve based on this. Instead you get the pointlessly skeptical administrators who preposterously declare these extraordinary abilities that clearly outstrip the government's own technology as originating from some enemy state? And as for the conventional citizens, they seem wary and slightly bemused by all this, but otherwise elicit no real reaction?

 

That to me is a failing. Furthermore, the show indulges too much in the popular crowd pleasing trope of endowing the protagonists with the cutting edge 21st century morality and the antagonists with the antiquated morality of that time, which I also consider a very simplistic approach in storytelling.

To the bolded, I'm pretty sure most modern established storytelling conventions for visual media would prevent this from happening, wouldn't you usually find those aspects explored more in novels? Besides, how many successful movies and tv shows can you name that actually follow through with the setting that they've chosen? (Also, it doesn't necessarily have limited to the SF/F genre).

Olly says "For The Watch"

Varys in Meereen?

Stannis definitely said "fear", and then shushed Davos's questioning of what he said.

"Fewer."

Stonemen, YES!!!

The entire team dragonstone marching to Winterfell?

Sam and Gilly might go to Oldtown.