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Alexis-something-Rose

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  1. Alexis-something-Rose

    Wow, I never noticed that. Vol. 18

    So Hardhome; He did. Hardhome had been halfway toward becoming a town, the only true town north of the Wall, until the night six hundred years ago when hell had swallowed it. Its people had been carried off into slavery or slaughtered for meat, depending on which version of the tale you believed, their homes and halls consumed in a conflagration that burned so hot that watchers on the Wall far to the south had thought the sun was rising in the north. (Jon VIII, ADwD 39) I've read this passage so many times, but I never even clocked in on the possibility that the people of Hardhome may have been carried off into slavery. That only leaves one option as to who or what happened in Hardhome if that's the case.
  2. Alexis-something-Rose

    Slayer of Lies triad; another look

    I thought I'd offer a different perspective on the "Slayer of Lies" triad. I think it's worth taking another look at. The vision; Glowing like sunset, a red sword was raised in the hand of a blue-eyed king who cast no shadow. A cloth dragon swayed on poles amidst a cheering crowd. From a smoking tower, a great stone beast too wing, breathing fire . . . mother of dragons, slayer of lies . . . (Dany IV, ACoK 48) The vision is bookeneded and I think it's related to Azor Ahai/the prince that was promised prophecy. Glowing like sunset, a red sword was raised in the hand of a blue-eyed king who cast no shadow. I think we all agree that this blue-eyed king is no other than Stannis Baratheon. Melisandre has been adamant that he is Azor Ahai come again. She gave him a shiny sword, is saying that he was reborn on Dragonstone. We don't know why Mel believes this or what she has seen in her flames that has led her to this conclusion. She does however manipulate things to fit the prophecy, such as holding having that "rebirth ceremony" for Stannis in a place of salt and smoke, while the bleeding star is still hanging in the sky. But Melisandre is missing one thing to "fulfill" the prophecy as she sees it, and that's waking the stone dragon. And I will return to this. A cloth dragon swayed on poles amidst a cheering crowd. This is where I peace out of the speculations about Aegon being a fake and a Blackfyre. We get an explanation from Dany about the meaning of the cloth/mummer's dragon. "A dead man in the prow of a ship, a blue rose, a banquet of blood . . . what does any of it mean, Khaleesi? A mummer's dragon, you said. What's a mummer's dragon, pray?" "A cloth dragon on poles," Dany explained. "Mummers use their in their follies, to give the heroes something to fight." (Dany V, ACoK 63) So in a nutshell, the mummer's dragon is a puppet. If the mummer wants the puppet to go left, it goes left. And if he wants it to go right, it goes right. The puppet is something a mummer can manipulate to do what it wants it to do. It doesn't make the dragon a fake, and as we find out from Jon Connington, Aegon is not nearly as biddable as Young Griff was. So the puppeteering (pretty sure it's not a word) will be more difficult moving forward, I think. But let's forget the whole Blackfyre v. Targaryen debate for the purpose of this thread and look at what we find out about Aegon in the HotU. Because we have to take him into consideration for the prophecy because he is part of it. Viserys, was her first thought the next time she paused, but a second glance told her otherwise. The man had her brother's hair, but was taller, and his eyes were a dark indigo rather than lilac. "Aegon," he said to a woman nursing a newborn babe in a great wooden bed. "What better name for a king?" "Will you make a song for him?" the woman asked. "He has a song," the man replied. "He is the prince that was promised, and his is the song of ice and fire." (Dany IV, ACoK 48) And we get more from Maester Aemon; "No one ever looked for a girl," he said. "It was a prince that was promised, not a princess. Rhaegar . . . I thought . . . the smoke from the fire that devoured Summerhall on the day of his birth, the salt from the tears shed for those who died. He shared my belief when he was young, but later he came to believe that it was his own son who fulfilled the prophecy, for a comet had been seen above King's Landing on the night Aegon was conceived, and Rhaegar was certain the bleeding star had to be a comet." (Sam IV, AFfC 35) If Rhaegar shared the prophecy with Jon Connington and what he believed the same way he did with Maester Aemon, then Connington might put Aegon forward as the prince that was promised because of Rhaegar's own belief. And this is what matters for this triad in the end, I think. Everything seems to indicate that Rhaegar was wrong about that. But if Jon Connington takes Rhaegar's word for it, then the error grows into something else. If Aegon got his head smashed against the wall, then the promise dies with him. And if he is an impostor, he still doesn't fulfill the requirements of the prophecy. And if he's the real Aegon, he's still a long way from being the fulfillment of the prophecy, which takes us to the final part of the triad; From a smoking tower, a great stone beast took wing, breathing shadow fire. The Azor Ahai prophecy as given to us by Melisandre; When the red star bleeds and the darkness gathers, Azor Ahai shall be born again amidst smoke and salt to wake dragons out of stone. (Jon X, ADwD 49) And Maester Aemon tells us this; Daenerys is the one, born amidst salt and smoke. The dragons prove it." (Sam IV, AFfC 35) So waking dragons from stone is on the checklist for fulfilling the prophecy and this part has not been delivered yet by Melisandre. She gave Stannis the salt, the smoke, when the red star was bleeding, but she gave him a glamored sword instead of dragons. Dany has woken dragons from stone, thereby literally fulfilling the prophecy. Meanwhile, Aegon as Tyrion observed has no dragons, and neither does Stannis for that matter. For a long time, I wondered what this part of the vision mean, great stone beast taking wing, breathing shadow fire. But then, when I came at it from the Azor Ahai prophecy, it actually bookends the first part of the vision about the blue-eyed king nicely, because it is part of the prophecy, the part about waking a stone dragon. I went back in the text and checked for stone dragon references. The very first time it's brought up in the text is in Dany IV, AGoT 36. Dany refers to her eggs (the stone dragons within) and how she draws strength from them. After that, we get references to stone dragons when we get descriptions of Dragonstone. Otherwise, all the talk of stone dragon comes from the people around Mel and Mel herself. We find out she wants to give Edric Storm over to the flames because of his king's blood to wake the stone dragon. "This talk of stone dragon . . . madness, I tell you, sheer madness." (Alester Florent, Davos III, ASoS 25) "Give me the boy, Your Grace. It is the surer way. The better way. Give me the boy and I shall wake the stone dragon." (Davos IV, ASoS 36) "Your brother's blood," Melisandre said. "A king's blood. Only a king's blood can wake the stone dragon." (Davos IV, ASoS 36) Ser Axell went to one knee. "On bended knee I beg you, sire. Wake the stone dragon and let the traitors tremble." (Davos V, ASoS 54) And it goes on. In her own chapter, Mel has a vision of dragons; Through curtains of fire great winged shadows wheeled against a hard blue sky. (Melisandre I, ADwD 31) So she does see actual dragons in her fires. We don't know if she thinks that this means she will be successful in waking the stone dragon. We don't have her opinion on the matter. I think the beast in the vision from the HotU will be Melisandre's own creation. A stone dragon (and maybe not quite so literally as that), breathing shadow flame. And if this stone beast is breathing shadow flame, then the odds are, this will not be a real dragon, in the same way Lightbringer is not the real Lightbringer. Melisandre is good at faking. I think the last part of the triad is about how far Melisandre will go to make the prophecy happen. "No," the old man said. "It must be you. Tell them. The prophecy . . . my brother's dream . . . Lady Melisandre has misread the signs. Stannis . . . Stannis has some dragon blood in him, yes. His brothers did as well. Rhaelle, Egg's little girl, she was how they came by it . . . their father's mother . . . she used to call me Uncle Maester when she was a little girl. I remembered that, so I allowed myself to hope . . . perhaps I wanted to . . . we all deceive ourselves, when we want to believe. Melisandre most of all, I think. The sword is wrong, she has to know that . . . light without heat . . . an empty glamor . . . the sword is wrong, and the false light can only lead us deeper into the darkness, Sam." (Sam IV, AFfC 35) So the sword is wrong, the dragon breathing shadow flame is wrong, Stannis is not Azor Ahai and neither is Aegon. Sam hesitated a moment, then told his tale again as Marwyn, Alleras and the other novice listened. "Maester Aemon believed that Daenerys Targaryen was the fulfillment of a prophecy . . . her, not Stannis, nor Prince Rhaegar, not the princeling whose head was dashed against the wall." (Sam V, AFfC 45) Slayer of lies And it just occurred to me that Sam's nickname is "Slayer," and this is exactly what he doing here, slaying the Stannis lie and the Aegon lie.
  3. Alexis-something-Rose

    On Janos Slynt

    If anyone sent anything to the NW, my money is on Qyburn. He was removed from the small council, but he carries out Cersei's request to send Jaime the letter to come and save her, which he sends by raven to riverrun. So at the very least, at that point, he still had access to the ravens.
  4. Alexis-something-Rose

    Wow, I never noticed that. Vol. 18

    I know all the arguments about the mummer's dragon. But I disagree that it means that the mummer's dragon is a fake. I think the "slayer of lies" triad is linked to Azor Ahai.
  5. Alexis-something-Rose

    On Janos Slynt

    For sure. Tywin had Pycelle send that letter to the NW with His Grace sending his fondest regards to his faithful friend and servant Lord Janos, signaling that this is who the Lannisters wanted as Lord Commander. Tywin was going to use the Watch for his own purpose, whatever that might have been. Then Slynt turned around and sent a letter to King's Landing informing on what's going on at the Watch . Tyrion should really have trimmed his head instead of sending him to the Wall. Slynt was a bully and a corrupt one at that who thought he was still in King's Landing and that it was business as usual.
  6. Alexis-something-Rose

    Wow, I never noticed that. Vol. 18

    Before going further, I do wanna say that I do not believe the mummer's dragon means that the character is a fake dragon. False doesn't necessarily mean fake to me. It can also mean treacherous, faithless. This is the meaning I've always gone with. And Jon wouldn't be the first Targaryen with darker features. I can name 3 off the top of my head who took their mothers' coloring. Baelor Breakspear, Duncan the Small and little Rhaenys. I posted this about blue hair on the previous page. It might give you an idea where I'm at in my thoughts about true/false. This isn't the thread to speculate, but if you want to start one, I'll be happy to join in.
  7. Alexis-something-Rose

    Wow, I never noticed that. Vol. 18

    Moqorro's vision about the dragons; "Someone told me that the night is dark and full of terrors. What do you see in those flames?" "Dragons," Moqorro said in the Common Tongue of Westeros. He spoke it very well, with hardly a trace of accent. No doubt that was one reason the high priest Benerro had chosen him to bring the faith of R'hllor to Daenerys Targaryen. "Dragons old and young, true and false, bright and dark. And you. A small man with a big shadow, snarling in the midst of all." (Tyrion VIII, ADwD 33) I remembered something from the Griffin Reborn chapter; A bride for our bright prince. (The Griffin Reborn, ADWD 61) Rhaegar was a dragon. Jon Connington thinking of him as "bright prince" would also make him a "bright dragon." So following that, I went back to Bran I, AGoT 1 and the description he gives of Jon. Jon's eyes were a grey so dark they seemed almost black, but there was little they did not see. He was of an age with Robb, but they did not look alike. Jon was slender where Robb was muscular, dark where Robb was fair, gracefully and quick where his half brother was strong and fast. (Bran I, AGoT 1) This would make Jon a dark dragon. He doesn't look like the other Targaryens. He doesn't have the Valyrian look. I'll leave the rest of the vision out of this because it falls into speculation territory.
  8. Alexis-something-Rose

    What happened to the Targaryen slaves?

    Dragonstone was a Valyrian outpost when Aenar and everyone connected to him left Valyria, which means that the island was not subject to the laws of Westeros. If Aenar wanted to keep slaves, he could have. Maybe Gaemon the Glorious emancipated the slaves that were brought from Valyria. Maybe that's one of the reasons he's so glorious.
  9. Alexis-something-Rose

    Wow, I never noticed that. Vol. 18

    So I've seen a number of characters being named as the "perfumed seneschal" in speculations. There's Varys, Reznak mo Reznak, Illyrio, Satin up at the Wall, the Selaesori Qhoran because it means fragrant steward. Tyrion decides to call it the Stinky Steward because he likes it better. There's Garth Tyrell, also known as Garth the Gross, the Lord Seneschal of Highgarden, who would be literally a stinky steward. The word Seneschal is mentioned 6 times in Sam V, AFfC 45. Here we get an explanation on how Maester Theobald stepped into Walgrave's place as Seneschal. Marwryn's answer is that Sam to keep his mouth shut about everything that he's told him. But we know from the prologue of AFfC that the news about Dany and the dragons has reached Oldtown. What if the seneschal Quaithe is talking about is an archmaester of the Citadel who is the acting Seneschal? ETA - If there is a smidgen of truth about the maesters and their alleged conspiracy against the dragons, the Targaryens, magic, then I think it would make sense for the Seneschal in Quaithe's vision to be a maester. They must be aware at the Citadel that the glass candles are burning, no? At the same time, it seems like that information may have been suppressed.
  10. Alexis-something-Rose

    Wow, I never noticed that. Vol. 18

    Thanks for the link and I've been fairly certain for a long time that he is the Blackfyre in the story. The fAegon speculation threw me off when I started looking stuff up online. I think Daario fits the pattern of the blue hair. And he's been in captivity long enough now that his real hair color should start showing at the roots.
  11. Alexis-something-Rose

    Fire and blood magic

    Summerhall - Fire and blood and magic gone very wrong Glass candles
  12. Alexis-something-Rose

    Wow, I never noticed that. Vol. 18

    Typo on my part. It's chandler.
  13. Alexis-something-Rose

    Wow, I never noticed that. Vol. 18

    The named men who have blue hair in the story are so far Daario, the Blue Bard, Young Griff, Griff. Daario Naharis; [snip] and Daario Naharis was flampboyant even for a Tyroshi. His beard was cut into three prongs and dyed blue, the same color as his eyes and the curly hair that fell to his collar. (Dany IV, ASoS 42) The Blue Bard; "Not kind," said Cersei, "merely truthful. Taena tells me that you are called the Blue Bard." "I am, Your Grace." The singer's boots were supple blue calfskin, his breeches a fine blue wool. The tunic he wore was pale blue silk slashed with shiny blue satin. He had even gone so far as to dye his hair blue, in the Tyroshi fashion. Long and curly, it fell to his shoulders and smelled as if it had been washed in rosewater. From the blue rose, no doubt. At least his teeth are white. They were good teeth, not the least bit crooked. (Cersei IX, AFfC 39) Young Griff; Tyrion craned his head to one side, and saw a boy standing on the roof of a low wooden building, waving a wide-brimmed straw hat. He was a lithe and well-made youth, with a lanky build and a shock of dark blue hair. (Tyrion III, ADwD 8) Griff; Griff's cloak was made from the hide and head of a red wolf of the Rhoyne. Under the pelt he wore brown leather stiffened with iron rings. His clean-shaved face was leathery too, with wrinkles at the corners of his eyes. Though his hair was as blue as his son's, he had red roots and redder eyebrows. (34-Tyrion III, ADwD 8) Griff's real name is Jon Connington. He's a redhead. Young Griff's real name is Aegon Targaryen (it doesn't matter if one believes he is a Targaryen or a Blackfyre. What matters is that he is hiding his identity under blue hair). Real hair color should be similar to Dany's. The Blue Bard is the son of a chandler and his real name is Wat. His real hair color is brown. That leaves Daario Naharis as the odd man out in this pattern of blue hair/hidden identity.
  14. Alexis-something-Rose

    Wow, I never noticed that. Vol. 18

    This is sort of interesting in light of who is about to land in Westeros. Maybe there's a meeting being foreshadowed here? Robert had never learned to ride properly, she knew. Mules, horses, donkeys, it made no matter; to him they were all fearsome beasts, as terrifying as dragons or griffins. (Alayne II, AFfC 41) It's also kind of interesting that we are introduced to the legend of the Winged Knight who slew the Griffin Knight in the same chapter.
  15. Alexis-something-Rose

    Dany's three betrayals

    I think there's a massive foreshadowing that he will come out of the flames all the way back in AGoT, but I don't want to derail the thread.
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