Craving Peaches

Desperate times call for desperate measures. Removing the Old Way requires radical action.

If morals are totally, completely off... The Old Way has to die by any means necessary for the good of the future of the Ironborn. It is stifling any sort of progress in the Islands and is ruining things for all but the elite of the Islands. Damphair et al. all need to go. The Old Way is ensuring successive generations of Ironborn suffer from brain damage due to oxygen depravation. Get rid of the thrall and salt wife system. Make all the former thralls and salt wives Ironborn with full rights. Kill all the Codds. Put the Reader in charge of most things. Council of the Reader, Asha, Baelor Blacktyde (unless he's already dead in this scenario), some other reasonable people, with myself in charge to run things. With the influx of non-stupid this should get the ball rolling. Focus on trade rather than conquest, unless we are talking positions that the Ironborn could utilise well like the Stepstones or other Islands. Loot the remaining part of the continental North then leave, taking hostages for ransom. Take Bear Island. Kill anyone who resists or just kill everyone to make sure. Bear Island can actually be held by the Ironborn and is covered in forest, thus giving them access to wood to maintain and augment the fleet. Make sure the forests are managed responsibly so this resource doesn't run out. There was also a theory that the Islands are overpopulated so some people could settle here to reduce the population pressure. Alternatively, if I was being extra, extra evil... Burn all the ships. The Islands have no forests left to build more (if there are any left, burn them), so everyone is stuck on the island. They also cannot fish aside from very close to the islands, and as they disavow farming and lack sufficiently good soil to farm anyway, they can't farm. The fish stocks close to the shore will soon run out. This move should ensure the bulk of the population starves. Hopefully, the survivors are either already know, or realise after this event how stupid the Old Way is. With more resources to go around per person the quality of life of the survivors should also increase. Of course, no one at the Kingsmoot would ever accept this...

I had a dream that I saw Jon walking the streets of the Imperial City from TES IV: Oblivion. What does this mean for the future of the series?

So around a year ago, I came to the shocking conclusion that Jon was murderously insane. That scintillating expose and the resulting discussion can be found here: Jon Snow is Insane - General (ASoIaF) - A Forum of Ice and Fire - A Song of Ice and Fire & Game of Thrones (westeros.org) However, what we didn't get around to discussing was the specifics: what will happen immediately after Jon is resurrected/recovers from his injury? I am fairly sure something horrible is in store for poor, noble, tragic Bowen and his faithful companions, though unfortunately they might already be dead by then because Snowflake the Traitor™ filled the Watch with his sycophants. Based on Jon being a slave to his violent impulses as seen with the murder of Janos the Just® and his assault on the defenceless Iron Emmet etc. I predicted that Jon would join the Others, but upon reflection I am not so sure. We know that Jon likes to get nice and personal with the killing: Or it's not as satisfying for him. So perhaps being a mindless drone under the control of the Others would not be so appealing. However: what if the Others offered Jon a special position like Picard when he was made Borg spokesperson? Would this tempt him?

Peasants and those associated with them have actually been complaining about armies taking their food, we don't see it that often because characters aren't near peasants that often but the complaints are definitely there. Given that the people taking the food next are going to be foreigners with a foreign religion I expect the dissatisfaction will get worse.

It's not a high spirited question. It's a basic thing. They will be running out of food and hungry, and will blame all the newly arrived foreign heathens for 'stealing' it or whatever. I don't think this requires any deep thinking.

Why not? Peasants are more likely to be concerned about food then the nobles. I don't think she will struggle to find any support but I don't think she will necessarily have mass appeal. A big point being alluded to is that people aren't actually that bothered about restoring the Targaryens, especially the peasants who don't care as long as they are left alone. Daenerys is not going to leave them alone. Plus, Aegon has arrived before her.

That assumes they are not distorted by distance or lies deliberately being spread. We already know less than flattering rumours about Daenerys are spreading and that there are a lot of conflicting accounts going around. Plus many people don't believe all these tales. The idea of there being dragons is consistent but not of freeing slaves. It is characterised in the rumours as being a slave revolt, which doesn't say much about Daenerys liberating the slaves. Also, people (or at least the peasants) are not going to be happy with Daenerys for other reasons - she is bringing a load of additional mouths to feed to an already food-short continent in winter, is bringing a load of foreigners with 'heathen' religion etc. Overall I think it would be poor writing if loads of people just voluntarily decided to support Daenerys despite all the reasons they would have to not support her. Being coerced into giving support is another matter.

When did this happen?

Do we know for sure that Cressen and Joffrey even got the same dose of the poison anyway? Cressen may have put in more poison to kill Melisandre based on her (presumably greater, since she's an adult woman and Joffrey is a young teenage boy) body weight. We also don't know that they were drinking the same kind of wine - the crystal might dissolve at different speeds in different wines based on alcohol content etc. Cressen's crystals: Sansa's hairnet: The hairnet crystals seem to be larger than Cressen's crystal (they are certainly larger than seeds in all the pictures of them I've seen), so theoretically they should take longer to dissolve? Not to mention, Joffrey's wine cup was probably larger than Cressen's which would make the poison more diluted.

She could still have got the Unsullied then gone to Westeros if she bothered to confiscate Slaver property. At that point she would have the means to hire ships. Plus from what we've seen the non-unsullied slave soldiers bar the Volantene ones are stupid.

She essentially got the Unsullied for free though. Not sure if she can pull that same trick with regular slave soldiers.

I think what happened was: LF/Lysa poisoned him but he didn't die straight away, it looked like he was ill. Colemon, the maester from the Vale, was treating Jon by purging him, i.e. trying to flush the poison out his system. Pycelle doesn't want him to potentially be saved because Pycelle believes he knows about the incest, so he sends Colemon away and stops the purging treatment which ensures Jon will die. Pycelle wants him dead because he is a complete Lannister crony and the revelation would damage the house. He's a huge Tywin fanboy because he thinks Tywin makes the hard but necessary choices. When Pycelle was younger, there was an incident where a Lord of Oldtown took drastic action to stop a plague spreading, and Pycelle really admires it. So basically I think Pycelle was doing whatever he thought best for House Lannister because of Tywin. After Tywin dies, he isn't so bothered with Cersei but still seems loyal to the more competent members of the House.

Doesn't Pycelle make some remark to Tyrion about how Jon Arryn had to die because knew (about the incest)? That remark doesn't make much sense if he was investigating his own son's legitimacy instead. I don't think either Tyrion or Pycelle suspect Robert Arryn is illegitimate. Pycelle also deliberately botches Jon's treatment to ensure he dies (sends away the maester who is purging him which would actually help), if he's only concerned about his own son Pycelle seems to be lacking in motivation to do this.

I think it would be explicitly mentioned if they supported the Lord of Light though, because it was a presented to us as 'new' religion in Westeros that hadn't gained much traction until recently. No other noble houses worshipped R'hllor until Melisandre came along, so it would be something unusual that I would expect to be noted.

I'm just conflicted because on the one hand I think if it was in the wine Joffrey would have started choking sooner, and he chokes right after eating the pie, but I also think it makes more sense from a planning point of view to be in the wine rather than the pie, and the wine goes purple (not sure what else would turn the wine purple). I would expect the crystal to dissolve rather quickly if it was soluble in wine, as alcohol is a relatively strong solvent. If it properly dissolves, there shouldn't be much or any in the way of residue at the bottom of the cup.

How so? He went through all of it in a couple of weeks at the latest. We know that they newly-knighted Bronn can afford to go there regularly, so they cannot be that expensive relatively speaking. Note also that a generous ransom for a knight, i.e. Bronn, is three hundred dragons. I don't think it adds up. Ten thousand dragons is the reward Corlys offers for the whereabouts of the man who slew his son and heir, and this was around the time the Velaryons were one of or the richest house in Westeros.

The value of the money is still dubious because Anguy manages to blow 10,000 Gold Dragons on the Westerosi equivalent of 'hookers and cocaine' really quickly, even taking into account it is expensive, would they really be so expensive as to allow him to waste all of it in a relatively short period of time? Other nobles go there and they don't seem to think it is as extortionate as that. It suggests dragons were worth less than they were later on, since we are later told that a mere three hundred gold dragons is an generous ransom for a knight, a thousand dragons is offered for Jaime's recapture, and Anguy had over thirty/ten times that amount. Salla is being paid thrice of what Anguy spent a month to put his whole fleet of fully crewed ships in action for Stannis. Even if you accept Robert was being lavish with the prizes I still don't think it makes much sense. I like this article: By Popular Demand: “Who Stole Westeros?” | Race for the Iron Throne (wordpress.com), which suggests that the state of finances could not be caused solely by Robert overspending but rather LF had to be up to something.

I think the value isn't even consistent in-universe. The prizes in the first game are ridiculous when you think about it.

I don't think he is the nicest Frey but I do feel sorry for Merret. His life looked relatively promising (especially given the humiliation he suffered prior) and then it was all taken away from him by a stroke of bad luck and he had to suffer from debilitating pain for the rest of his life.

True, but doesn't that also apply to the wine?

I'm not sure if purple in heraldry would have the same connection with royalty as in the real world, because it isn't necessarily as rare in Westeros, and it is never mentioned as being associated with royalty beyond Targaryen eye colour. The fact that so many sigils seem to feature it would suggest it isn't really that rare/is much cheaper to acquire. I don't think many of those houses listed are noted as being particularly wealthy. For example, Houses Dalt and Hasty are 'only' landed knights. If purple is supposed to be as prestigious as it was in real life I am not sure why they would be able to afford it or allowed to use it. House Fenn's sigil also displays with more of a lilac colour than a deep royal purple but that could just be the wiki's interpretation. In real life I think proportionally far fewer CoA from the medieval or early modern period feature the colour purple, and not all of those that feature 'purpure' are featuring the Tyrian royal purple. Best example I can think of is the Kingdom of Leon. Also, there is some confusion over what the 'purpure' tincture actually was. The Wikipedia page gives me these 'meanings' for the colour aside from the royal connection. With all that said, GRRM doesn't seem that bothered with having the sigils obey proper heraldic rules or conventions (House Lynderly is a notable example), so it may be as you suggest and actually indicate an obscure royal connection.

Am I the only person who is not averse to the possibility that the poison was in the pie but that Joffrey was still the target?

Ei means egg in German.

That's bollocks. When Robb first came along, Walder could have refused to support him and stayed safe in his castle. It was pretty clear Robb lacked the ability to besieged the Twins. Instead, Walder knowingly chose to support a rebel because his family would have a connection to royal blood. Similarly, after being insulted, Walder could have just withdrawn to the Twins to keep his family safe. Again, Robb was not going to be able to besiege them. Instead, he again choses the option that grants him more power, even though it harms his family, because he is that desperate for more power and prestige.