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6 hours ago, Lord Varys said:

Barristan loved Ashara from afar, etc.

Judging by that passage in Dance, it seems like Barristan was ready to break his vows and have a secret affair with her had she accepted him.

On 9/12/2023 at 8:02 PM, Lee-Sensei said:

Master of Laws: Randyll Tarly

Wouldn’t Randyll Tarly be more suited for a martial role, like Master of War?

On 9/22/2023 at 9:29 PM, Craving Peaches said:

Rhaegar makes numerous incompetent decisions.

Quote

 Jaehaerys, Aerys, Robert. Three dead kings. Rhaegar, who would have been a finer king than any of them.

Barristan has observed Rhaegar his entire life, and probably has reasons to think the way he does. We as readers don’t know what those reasons are, but he obviously does.

51 minutes ago, Darth Sidious said:

mode of transportation

Doesn't everyone in Westeros use horses?

24 minutes ago, Frey family reunion said:

Oh I don’t know.  I definitely think that Euron is more evil than Baelish.  Probably the most pure evil character in the books, more so than even Ramsay.

Yeah, meanwhile Victarion is too dumb to be evil.

26 minutes ago, Frey family reunion said:

And there is also a very strong likelihood that Rhaegar’s motivation may have been to secretly give Lyanna her due as opposed to a specific romantic gesture at the time.

It's very possible that he wanted to give Lyanna her due for her performance as the Knight of the Laughing Tree. But given that he shortly afterwards decided to make her the mother of his child, indicates that there was more at play there. 

One doesn't necessarily have to exclude the other.

Never mind.

1 hour ago, Lord Varys said:

Loras Tyrell gives a red rose to Sansa Stark at the Tourney of the Hand - she is no free maiden but the betrothed of the Crown Prince. Sure enough, a rose isn't the same as the coronation thing there ... but if we imagine little Sansa was honored in that way by a married tourney champion would that be a big deal?

Loras wasn't married and his hypothetical wife wasn't at the tourney. Plus, Loras was giving roses to many girls that day. So those two cases aren't very similar. 

10 minutes ago, Frey family reunion said:

I think it’s undisputed that it had to be a kidnapping, whether or not Lyanna was taken kicking or screaming, or met up with Rhaegar and rode off with him willingly.

The textbook definition of kidnapping is "the unlawful seizure and detention of a person against their will". If she ran off with him willingly, then it's an elopement.

54 minutes ago, kissdbyfire said:

There’s a post up thread about how every character talks about it in these terms, “Lyanna was kidnapped”.

I got that, and I provided what, in my opinion, are two examples of the contrary.

1 hour ago, kissdbyfire said:

And how many people actually do talk about it in any way? Most who do refer to it as a kidnapping but we’re talking about what, two people? Three?

Well, there is "Prince Rhaegar loved his Lady Lyanna, and thousands died for it" from Barristan and "Rhaegar had named that place the tower of joy, but for Ned it was a bitter memory" from Ned.

Tower of Joy isn't something you name the place where you plan to take your abduction victim and torture her. And it would make even less sense for Lyanna's brother Ned to remember it that way if that's really what happened.

10 minutes ago, sifth said:

Pretty sure the killing of Tyrion was just a bluff. Even Jamie calls him out on it.

Yeah, he definitely did it to protect Catelyn.

10 hours ago, Nevets said:

I would like to point out the number of characters that have claimed, or even so much as hinted, that Rhaegar's taking of Lyanna was not a kidnapping - ZERO.

Barristan Selmy doesn’t seem to believe that it was a kidnapping, for one.

By the way, if we ever get The Winds of Winter, then we will have all three titles of the original ASOIAF trilogy in published form. Which is pretty cool.

39 minutes ago, kissdbyfire said:

Full disclosure, I’m in a minority who think Dany’s vision isn’t exactly what it appears to be, or that it will play out differently than most expect.

How do you mean?

1 hour ago, Lee-Sensei said:

Maybe. Or maybe enough time had passed by that her displeasure cooled.

Judging by their conversation in that vision, he openly talked to her about the prophecy stuff, so at the very least she knew what kind of guy she was dealing with. 

Also, GRRM has said that the relationship between Rhaegar and Elia was "complex". Whatever that means.

I don’t know if I would call him pure evil, but he is definitely a villain.

11 hours ago, Lee-Sensei said:

I'd really dislike that if it was true.

Well, the vision of Rhaegar and Elia from the HOTD was after the Harrenhal tourney. So Elia didn’t seem upset about Rhaegar crowning Lyanna the QOLAB instead of her, at least.

3 hours ago, sifth said:

I always thought those slavers, were the ones who ruled the city.

But not necessarily with the help of the unsullied, who are still considered slaves at the end of the day. 

13 minutes ago, csuszka1948 said:

I don't think he foresaw it, but after it broke out, he probably thought he is preordained to win.

I think he took the comet that has shown up the night of Aegon's birth a sign that his son is the prince that was promised and the year of false spring as an indication that the Long Night is soon upon humanity, so he thought that the apocalypse war is soon coming and he is destined to fight in it, so he cannot die in a mere human war.

Yes, I think you're absolutely correct.

29 minutes ago, csuszka1948 said:

Saying that Rhaegar should have foreseen that his actions were going to cause war seems incorrect to me

I suspect that he did/could foresee it, but he didn't care because the prophecy was more important from his point of view. 

18 minutes ago, Lord Varys said:

The question is how Stannis developed that weird and rather perverse notion to suspect Jaime.

Well, it couldn't have been Lancel, since he was too young at the time. And Jaime and Cersei have always been super close, so I guess it was the first logical conclusion.

What I don't understand is why it took so long for the rumours to start.

31 minutes ago, sifth said:

Ignoring what Dany did for a second, why in the world would anyone with 1/10th of common sense sell, their entire army?

Is it really their army, though? They're just salespeople. I've always looked at it as a car dealership, in which they're not selling their cars.

I wonder what the initial spark that made Jon Arryn start investigating the paternity of Cersei's children was. He couldn't have just woken up one day and realised that all of them have suspiciously blonde hair. If that was the case, it should have happened much earlier. Tommen, the youngest one, was seven years old at the time of AGoT.

1 hour ago, SeanF said:

I don’t think Joffrey’s behaviour is normative, even in this world.

Yeah, I think that goes without saying.