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cyberdirectorfreedom

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  1. cyberdirectorfreedom

    On Janos Slynt

    Jon's reasoning for choosing execution over other punishments is a joke: —and confine him to an ice cell, he might have said. A day or ten cramped up inside the ice would leave him shivering and feverish and begging for release, Jon did not doubt. And the moment he is out, he and Thorne will begin to plot again. How would he and Thorne begin to plot again? Sending him to Greyguard was mostly to get him away from Ser Alliser. Slynt wouldn't be let out from the cell until he agreed to go to Greyguard, which puts an end to easy plotting, at least. Worth considering, also, is that if commanding Greyguard wasn't going to help put an end to their plotting, Jon trying to send him there in the first place was foolish. —and tie him to his horse, he might have said. If Slynt did not wish to go to Greyguard as its commander, he could go as its cook. It will only be a matter of time until he deserts, then. And how many others will he take with him? Is it truly only a matter of time until he deserts? I wouldn't say it's inevitable, but regardless, if he chooses to desert later, he can be punished for it later. Stopping people from deserting is all well and good, but killing someone now because you might have to kill them for desertion later is absurd. The idea that he'd make others desert is also ridiculous. The punishment for desertion is death, and you're feared and hated wherever you go. Nobody is going to choose that because Janos Slynt was forced to become a cook. Nonsensical. At the end of the day, Jon executed Janos because he wanted to. He executed him in spite of other options, not because there was a lack of them.
  2. cyberdirectorfreedom

    Gender relations in Westeros: II

    Masha Heddle ran the Inn at the Crossroads, and was killed by Tywin as punishment for letting Tyrion be taken. Husbands wife is named Sharna, no surname. Rhaegar Frey's comment is referring to Wylla Manderly: "Wylla has always been a willful child," her sister said, by way of apology. "I fear that she will make a willful wife." Rhaegar shrugged. "Marriage will soften her, I have no doubt. A firm hand and a quiet word." Nothing to do with Alys and Sigorn. Unless we're just applying his comment in general, but I don't think applies, anyway. A Frey/Manderly marriage wouldn't be the same as a Karstark/Wildling marriage.
  3. cyberdirectorfreedom

    Gender relations in Westeros

    Oh, that's definitely just her personality. I doubt the vast majority of peasant marriages have the power dynamic weighted so. That's an extreme example. I meant that, due to the fact that common men have no actual power, just as common women, that power dynamics between common couples would be mostly equal (or, at least, with a power difference far smaller than those we see among the nobility). "Father, I know what you did." She was no longer an innocent bride with a head full of dreams. She was a widow, a traitor, a grieving mother, and wise, wise in the ways of the world. "You made him take her," she whispered. "Lysa was the price Jon Arryn had to pay for the swords and spears of House Tully." Small wonder her sister's marriage had been so loveless. The Arryns were proud, and prickly of their honor. Lord Jon might wed Lysa to bind the Tullys to the cause of the rebellion, and in hopes of a son, but it would have been hard for him to love a woman who came to his bed soiled and unwilling. He would have been kind, no doubt; dutiful, yes; but Lysa needed warmth. "No more than I did," her aunt said. "Jon Arryn was no dwarf, but he was old. You may not think so to see me now, but on the day we wed I was so lovely I put your mother to shame. But all Jon desired was my father's swords, to aid his darling boys." I never got the idea that Jon wanted any part of it. Why? Some women had more children that lived to adulthood than died in infancy. Alysanne is evidently one of them. That's not unrealistic at all. An average is an average, not a hard-and-fast rule that all mothers should have an exact percentage of their children dying in their infancy. That would be unrealistic. I don't think so. She refers to the man as 'Husband', but refers to the boy as 'Boy', not as 'Son' (because he's not her son). Stands to reason she calls him 'Husband' because they're married. I see no reason to believe otherwise. Doubtful. We see plenty of commoners in the series who reference their wives or husbands. Sharna and Husband for one, Brienne meets a married couple on the road to Duskendale in AFFC, etc. No doubt, but that's not really what I'm referring to. These people have something to gain with an arranged marriage. I'm referring to people who own no lands or businesses or anything of the sort. Farmhands, miners, etc. When they marry, there's no political gain, for the most part. I have no idea what you mean, regarding the bold. Or what a "half-whore" is. They don't take money, so... not whores. I obviously never said they were virtuous women, however. I'm just saying that they seem to be just a natural part of life, among commoners. Not good, not overly bad, just how it is. This is not how it is among the nobility, which was my point. Regarding the rape of men in arranged marriages, I was referring to the marriage night, in particular (which I realise I never actually said. Oops). During the bedding, it's the duty of both to consummate the marriage, and there's really no choice for anyone. After that though, yes, the husband decides when to have sex. Even if they don't choose to force their wife, the fact that they can is, of course, terrible.
  4. cyberdirectorfreedom

    Gender relations in Westeros

    This isn't a thought, though, right? It's narration. The narration is usually done differently between characters (Sansa's have a different feeling from, say, Jaime's) but it's not directly from their perspective. So I don't really think it's any reflection on what she's thinking, it's just describing what she looks like. Though, of course, the implication there might be that it's more about what GRRM is thinking... However, I have to ask: is that even a sexualised statement? Does the mere mention of breasts create an air of sexuality? Maybe it's just me, but that quote only brings to mind a picture of a small-ish girl wearing a vest. The mention of her small breasts serves to get a better idea of what she looks like in a vest. Not for a moment am I picturing her naked breasts, and even more I'm not picturing them in any sexual manner. Contrast that with, say, the description of Arianne's huge dark nipples, which is intentionally erotic considering it's from the viewpoint of a repressed horn-dog currently being aroused. It's different. Anyway, as to what others are saying: I think it wrong to say that just because the percentage of a certain group of people dying from x don't match statistics, that means it is unrealistic. It's statistically unlikely for heads to be the result of a coin-flip six times in a row, but it's certainly not impossible. A rash of deaths during childbirth (within a select group, in this case the nobility) is no more unrealistic than an extended period without them. It happens. We don't have information about the vast majority of expectant mothers; to take the number of a small group and extrapolating that to the entire population will never be entirely accurate. Could GRRM have written different deaths for some of these people? Sure, but that doesn't mean it's unrealistic, and I don't think it necessarily means it's sexist. I also think it's somewhat worth noting that all of the men in arranged marriages are also raped. For instance, Ned was equally unwilling to bed Catelyn as she was to bed him (which is to say, "willing" but in the way that it's their duty, and they want to do their duty). Jon Arryn probably wanted Lysa as little as she wanted him, it was Hoster Tully who forced the marriage. The vast, vast majority of arranged marriages would be like this, too; two people who are forced to make do. Unfair to call either one a rapist, I'd say. Also worth noting is that the rules are completely different for commoners and nobility. The vast majority of what we see is the nobility, of course, considering the POV structure. The little we see of commoners seems to give women more freedoms: Regarding power structure in marriages, we have the example of the innkeeper Sharna, met by Arya and co. and by Jaime and co. Sharna clearly has all the power in the relationship, to the extent that her husband and the boy they took in are only named 'Husband' and 'Boy'. Of course, this is also a clearly unhealthy relationship. However, one would assume that there are many such relationships, including such with a more equal power structure. The nobility is always scheming for more power, and their sons and daughters are expected to do the same, and are used for such measures. The common folk rarely have such political marriages: unless there's a particularly attractive daughter, or a particularly militarily capable son, most common people marry other common people. Without a political edge, it seems likely enough that most parents (though probably not all) would allow their children the opportunity to choose their own spouse. With nothing to gain and nothing to lose, the happiness of their child is foremost for most people. As regards female promiscuity being vilified two examples spring to mind: There is Bessa, the woman Chett murdered. She'd apparently bedded an entire village worth of men, and there's nothing to say that this was particularly looked down upon. The only negative we hear about her is that she wouldn't sleep with Chett, so he killed her. Chett was hunted and captured for her murder, so she clearly wasn't seen as less-than by the law. I can't imagine she was particularly looked up to for her behaviour, but she wasn't punished or vilified for it. The other example is one of Littlefinger's smallfolk, a woman named Kella. She's pregnant at the time Sansa meets her, and she doesn't know who the father is. These situations don't seem to be considered overly wrong, or even out of the ordinary. Contrast with Amerei Frey, for instance, who was married off quickly to a lower station due to her promiscuity. It's different among the nobility.
  5. cyberdirectorfreedom

    Jaime as the Golden Lion

    ...no? Pretty sure I made a direct reference to that. Had they not capitulated, he would have done something to break his oath. As they did capitulate, he needn't have taken up arms against them. Oath not broken. Unless you think that Jaime swore to keep the Tully in their ancestral seat. Fascinating. Who knew? Do you truly think that was what Jaime swore to Cersei? That he'd love her forever, in a platonic and brotherly manner? I don't. Or do you think that oaths should be about their exact words, regardless of context and intended meaning? I don't. Is it his duty to go and fight a trial by combat? I think not. Also, it amuses me to note, Jaime only accompanied Brienne because he wanted to assure the safety of Sansa, so as to uphold his oath to Catelyn.: "My lord, you gave me a quest." "The girl. Have you found her?" "I have," said Brienne, Maid of Tarth. "Where is she?" "A day's ride. I can take you to her, ser … but you will need to come alone. Elsewise, the Hound will kill her." He also left with her after his other duties (which is to say, to pacify the Riverlands) were taken care of. Perhaps the argument could be made that he ought to have returned to King's Landing to report back before undertaking other tasks, but it doesn't seem fair to judge him harshly for choosing to go with Brienne. That's hardly a surprise, is it? For decades, she's been the most important person to him, he built his entire life around her. He'd have to be a callous person indeed to completely disregard her. You're saying he should have kept it, then? Jaime didn't steal it, and returning lost property seems a good thing to me, so... I'm not really sure how this doesn't count in Jaime's favour. As to the rest, I am in complete agreement with @Lyanna<3Rhaegar. Which is a surprising turn of events, heh. I agree. It's only a negative if you do it in the manner of, say, King Robert, who is already ruling and therefore lets his kingdom go to rot. Better to have a ruler who actually wants to rule, I'd say. (Well, hopefully they're halfway competent, too. Perhaps King Robert was doomed either way, heh.)
  6. cyberdirectorfreedom

    Jaime as the Golden Lion

    Yes, and he meant it. His oath to serve his King dictated that he must take Riverrun. His oath to Catelyn dictated that he must not take up arms against Stark nor Tully. Taking Riverrun without bloodshed fulfilled both oaths as best he could. Wanted to, but didn't. Because of his oath, perhaps. Indeed? Jaime also swore some things to his sister: His sister flinched. "You swore that you would always love me. It is not loving to make me beg." He wants to be true to the Kingsguard, he wants to be true to his sister. Once again, he's doing the best he can. Which, admittedly, is rather poor, but a lose-lose situation tends to be. Charming. Regardless, I disagree. He's turning away from Cersei because he no longer thinks she's the person he believed her to be. Cersei's cheating is part of that, but no the whole issue. "You great golden fool. He's lied to you a thousand times, and so have I." The day his sister had come to White Sword Tower to beg him to renounce his vows, she had laughed after he refused her and boasted of having lied to him a thousand times. Jaime had taken that for a clumsy attempt to hurt him as he'd hurt her. It may have been the only true thing that she ever said to me. He no longer knows what to believe about her. Once, maybe. It's worth considering that this is the morning after he lost his father (which he completely blames himself for), lost his brother, and lost the image of his sister. His level of grief is pretty high, and he obviously wasn't thinking clearly, else he wouldn't have rebuffed her so crassly so publicly. Did he? "I will make a bargain with you. Relieve me of this duty, and my razor is yours to command." Her mouth tightened. She had been drinking hot spiced wine and smelled of nutmeg. "You presume to dicker with me? Need I remind you, you are sworn to obey." "I am sworn to protect the king. My place is at his side." "Your place is wherever he sends you." "Tommen puts his seal on every paper that you put in front of him. This is your doing, and it's folly. Why name Daven your Warden of the West if you have no faith in him?" Yes, he clearly jumped at the opportunity to leave King's Landing. He didn't want to, but he did his duty. He built his life around Cersei. It's not exactly surprising that it revolves around her. She'll always be his main concern. He loves her. He's angry with her and he loves her, not instead of. Edmure was already a hostage, it wasn't anything to blame on Jaime. As to the rest, he made the threats to avoid breaking the oath. Was the threat genuine? Yes. Would it have broken the oath? Yes. Does the threat itself break the oath? No. Jaime never swore to uphold Tully interests, or to protect the Tullys. He swore to not take up arms against them, and he kept that oath. That's understating things, isn't it? To help her in her task, Jaime gave Brienne a Valyrian Steel sword, a letter demanding assistance from the King's loyal subjects, and money for all else. He did all he could to assist her. What more could be done? He could order Lannister soldiers to find her, but Cersei would tell them "no". He could order the Kingsguard to find her, but that's not their duty. He could travel the land in search of her himself, but doing so would shirk his other duties. How could he keep his oath to Catelyn without breaking his oath to his King? You can't expect someone to not be themselves. He was always him. He is fundamentally the same person, and always will be, I agree. He was always someone who wanted to be decent, and now he's someone who is acting on that. He's trying to be the best version of himself, not a good version of somebody else. Once again, I find that admirable.
  7. cyberdirectorfreedom

    Jaime as the Golden Lion

    Yes? Without breaking other oaths, this is the best he could do. Conflicting oaths are at the core of Jaime. He's going from "oaths conflict, so why bother" to "oaths conflict, but I'll do the best I can". Would he indeed? I doubt that. If only because that would be Cersei's first option. But mostly because I fully believe that Jaime intends to serve as Lord Commander, as best he can, for life, as his oaths dictate.
  8. cyberdirectorfreedom

    Jaime as the Golden Lion

    Tommen is his King, first and foremost, and Jaime has a duty to serve him. Whether by his side, or in the Riverlands. I hardly think that's running away from responsibility. As to Tyrion, he only knew Jaime when he had two hands. Whether or not you believe Jaime is undergoing redemption, I think it undeniable that he is changing, so Tyrion's thoughts about Jaime aren't necessarily going to be accurate. In my eye, Jaime is changing into someone who puts his duties first. He keeps his oath to Catelyn as best he can, he chooses to remain Lord Commander (as per his oaths) rather than leave to become heir to Casterly Rock, etc. Whether this amounts to a "redemption arc" or if indeed it makes him a better person is debatable. Personally, I think he's simply trying to be someone that he can be proud of, which I find to be admirable.
  9. cyberdirectorfreedom

    Favorite Jaime Quotes

    So many good ones. My place is with my king. With my son. Would Tommen want to know that? The truth could cost the boy his throne. Would you sooner have a father or a chair, lad? Jaime wished he knew the answer. Also, and I know it's not a quote, but this has always stuck with me, for whatever reason: The Red Fork filled his boots and soaked through the ragged breeches. Laughing, he dropped to his knees, plunged his head under the water, and came up drenched and dripping. I don't know why I like this so much, truly. His relief at being free is just so palpable.
  10. cyberdirectorfreedom

    Jaime as the Golden Lion

    A bit selective, here, I think. It's worth considering that he's scolding Cersei here, relatively shortly after his last meeting with Tyrion. When he thinks of Tommen later, it's rather different: My place is with my king. With my son. Would Tommen want to know that? The truth could cost the boy his throne. Would you sooner have a father or a chair, lad? Jaime wished he knew the answer. I don't know about you, but to me that sounds like a man who wants to be a father to his children, and regrets not being able to. Also, why would a man who doesn't care about his children need to be warned "a thousand times" not to show undue interest?
  11. cyberdirectorfreedom

    A closer look at Roslin Frey

    I find this all to be... highly unlikely. Because it's funny. Lord Walder knows Edmure well enough to know it would be the only thing he'd think about his entire trip to the Twins, and it was. Classic petty revenge, that the Lord of the Crossing is known for. Not only that, but it's a dig at Lord Robb. He married the Westerling girl, when he could have had this. Just look at the seating arrangements, it's obvious what Lothar was playing at: Robb was seated between Alyx Frey and Fair Walda, two of the more nubile Frey maidens. Also, I'm sure it worked as a decent disarming device. Everyone was expecting Lord Walder to pull some trick, and now here it is. Edmure's suspicions were raised, sure, but about the wrong thing. Edmure doesn't really have a choice. He doesn't need to be convinced. If he doesn't accept the marriage, no matter the bride, there's no peace between Stark and Frey. Why not have some fun with it? I'd say it's rather in-keeping with Roslin's purported gentle nature. She's upset that she has to trick Edmure, knowing what's to come. That explains why Lord Walder is so short with them, to keep her from spilling the secret: "For joy," Roslin said. "I weep for joy, my lord." "Enough," Lord Walder broke in. "You may weep and whisper after you're wed, heh." This works as evidence against, honestly. Jeyne is upset because she's an unwilling participant. Roslin for similar reasons. If she were a fake, she'd have to be willing (else they'd get another, surely). So why is she upset? Either she knew beforehand what is to happen, and agreed, in which case there's no cause for sadness, or she doesn't know and to her it's just a fake wedding, and thus there's no cause for sadness. Could it not be the gap-tooth that makes them look so similar? Regardless, just because it isn't explicitly stated, that doesn't mean it isn't so. There are plenty of Freys about which we know very little. Many of them could be gap-toothed. I can't help but think the Genna/Emmon rule of Riverrun was a later development. Catelyn was supposed to be taken alive; she'd be a good hostage to keep Edmure docile, while he and Roslin rule Riverrun, which would eventually go to their child. Catelyn's death put an end to that, however, and they kept Edmure as a hostage. Edmure being "free" to would pacify the Riverlands a lot faster, which is why I think it was the original plan. The current regime had obvious problems. Perwyn spent a great deal of time with Lady Catelyn, and Olyvar squired for Lord Robb (and wanted to stay with him after Robb's marriage). Willamen is a maester, and has his own duties to attend to (and also, technically, no longer a Frey). It's strongly implied that a favourable disposition to the Starks is why Olyvar and Ser Perwyn were kept away: Catelyn slapped him so hard she broke his lip. Olyvar, she thought, and Perwyn, Alesander, all absent. And Roslin wept . . . Stark supporters were kept away, so as to not give the game away. The most glaring evidence is Catelyn's thoughts on her at first sight: Ser Benfrey led her into the hall. They looked enough alike to be full siblings. Judging from their age, both were children of the sixth Lady Frey; a Rosby, Catelyn seemed to recall. She's right about all that, just at a glance. They are full siblings, from the sixth Lady Frey, who was a Rosby. She even has the Rosby look: Pretty enough, Catelyn thought, but so small, and she comes of Rosby stock. The Rosbys had never been robust. She much preferred the frames of some of the older girls in the hall; daughters or granddaughters, she could not be sure. They had a Crakehall look about them, and Lord Walder's third wife had been of that House. It's a pretty good match, is what I'm saying. A little too good, to not be the genuine article. I just really, really don't see it.
  12. cyberdirectorfreedom

    Pardon for Rickard Karstark

    Got it in one. Treason is treason. Hard to say the truth of that, to be honest. Catelyn didn't think so: Half of them will want to hang me now. The other half may only turn their eyes away. Karstark is the first to be openly judgemental, and Robb shows his opinion on the matter: "A mother's folly?" Lord Karstark rounded on Lord Umber. "I name it treason." "Enough." For just an instant Robb sounded more like Brandon than his father. "No man calls my lady of Winterfell a traitor in my hearing, Lord Rickard." After this, who would tell Robb that Catelyn deserves to be punished? Such a thing would be the same as an accusation of treason. Robb had clearly already (somehow) decided that Catelyn didn't commit treason, even though she admits it herself: "The news must have driven you mad," Ser Desmond broke in, "a madness of grief, a mother's madness, men will understand. You did not know . . ." "I did," Catelyn said firmly. "I understood what I was doing and knew it was treasonous..." Before all that, though, Catelyn's entrance was greeted with hushed whispers. Just because Karstark was the only one who was openly displeased, that doesn't mean that everyone else there was okay with what she did or with her lack of punishment. People treat her differently afterwards, too: Catelyn had grown fond of Lady Maege and her eldest daughter, Dacey; they were more understanding than most in the matter of Jaime Lannister, she had found. The implication being that most others disapprove of her. Indeed? He openly admits that what he did was treason, he just doesn't care: Lord Karstark spit out a broken tooth. "Yes, Lord Umber, leave me to the king. He means to give me a scolding before he forgives me. That's how he deals with treason, our King in the North." He smiled a wet red smile. Karstark's treason is a direct response to Catelyn's treason, and to Robb's response to it: Lord Karstark looked instead at Catelyn. "Tell your mother to look at them," he said. "She slew them, as much as I." It was an act specifically designed to put Robb in a tenuous position. Robb's choice was a pardon or a punishment. If he pardoned Karstark, that would have been twice he ignored treason; no King could survive that with power intact. If he punished Karstark, it would prove that Robb is a hypocrite, who will only provide justice when it suits him. No good, obviously. Anyway, OP has it the wrong way around. People don't deserve preferential treatment because someone else is getting it. Nobody deserves preferential treatment. Justice is blind, and all that. Hah. Hardly.
  13. cyberdirectorfreedom

    Appropriate Punishment for Catelyn

    I think that's precisely the issue. Robb is supposed to be impartial when acting the judge. Otherwise, justice is impossible. The majority of them also haven't committed treason. Death or life imprisonment (a permanent punishment, obviously) are the most common punishments for treason, today. That is essentially my issue. Although I suppose it's that she wasn't punished at all, at least by Robb, the person to whom doling out justice fell. Catelyn's crime was far, far more devastating to Robb's war effort (and by extension, his entire kingdom) than Karstark's crime. To my eye, the only thing that should've stayed Robb's hand is that she's kin, and as such, protected from such reprisal. More nepotism. By Stannis's own code, Davos should have been killed. Rewarded for your actions, punished for your crimes. It's not the only time Stannis has let justice fall by the wayside when it suited him. But, we're not here to talk about Stannis, so I'll leave that there. Obviously, he couldn't do that. I just now realised I haven't even given a response to the OP's question (oops), but I think he should have given her over to the silent sisters. Were she a man, she could take the black, but it seems equivalent enough. Lose your family name (or close enough to make no difference), swear vows to serve only a particular order, removed from the greater world, etc. She worships the seven, too, so it works. It'd be a better fate than the silent sister she ended up becoming: "Lady Stoneheart." "Some call her that. Some call her other things. The Silent Sister. Mother Merciless. The Hangwoman." Her eyes glimmered under her hood. Grey was the color of the silent sisters, the handmaidens of the Stranger. Brienne felt a shiver climb her spine. Stoneheart. Almost fate. Hardly. Kinslayers get the worst treatment of all. He'd have a worse reputation than Walder Frey has now, only from his own people, too. They'd abandon him in droves. Accursed in the eyes of gods and men.
  14. cyberdirectorfreedom

    Appropriate Punishment for Catelyn

    Treason is treason. The differences are irrelevant. He was well within his rights to execute Karstark, yes. But he didn't actually punish Catelyn. Or, he hadn't yet, at the time of his death. It seemed to me, either way, that the "banishment" to Seagard was only ever to be a temporary matter: until Winterfell had been retaken, and she would go home. Doesn't seem much a punishment. "Your part is to stay safe. Our journey through the Neck will be dangerous, and naught but battle awaits us in the north. But Lord Mallister has kindly offered to keep you safe at Seagard until the war is done. You will be comfortable there, I know." I interpreted that as the war with the Greyjoys, but he might mean his war of secession. He also might mean she'd stay at Seagard until the war ends, at which point she'd go elsewhere, not home to Winterfell. But that's how I took it. Because the differences are irrelevant. Their crimes aren't identical, no, but crimes were committed by both, for a certainty. Catelyn is guilty of treason. Karstark is guilty of treason and murder. One act, two crimes. Murder tends to earn one death, yes, but so does treason. I ask you again—what is the penalty for treason under the law?" Davos had no choice but to answer. "Death," he said. "The penalty is death, Your Grace." In their treason, their crimes are the same. The details of their treason are meaningless. By Karstark? I doubt that. He wanted Jaime killed, sure, but he seemed to understand that he was Robb's prisoner. His King's prisoner. It was only when his vengeance was stolen from him, a crime which went unpunished (at least at the time), that he acted. After abandoning Robb as his King. "Kill me, and be cursed. You are no king of mine."
  15. cyberdirectorfreedom

    Appropriate Punishment for Catelyn

    Because the crimes are exactly the same: treason. Catelyn's crime was obviously treason, and Karstark himself refers to his act as treason. Lord Karstark spit out a broken tooth. "Yes, Lord Umber, leave me to the king. He means to give me a scolding before he forgives me. That's how he deals with treason, our King in the North." He smiled a wet red smile. It's essentially the reason he kills the boys. Tion and Willem are nothing to him, hardly vengeance-sating kills. However, he'll either go unpunished or expose Robb's hypocrisy to all. Win-win. The biggest issue is Robb, however. He doesn't seem to think that what Catelyn did was treason, but he does call Rickard's actions treason. Willful ignorance or he truly doesn't understand it, either way, doesn't garner much trust in a King. I'm going to say willful ignorance, however. "It was a mother's folly. Women are made that way." "A mother's folly?" Lord Karstark rounded on Lord Umber. "I name it treason." "Enough." For just an instant Robb sounded more like Brandon than his father. "No man calls my lady of Winterfell a traitor in my hearing, Lord Rickard." (sounding more like Brandon is interesting. More emotional, in other words. She is a traitor, just don't call her one! Definitely willful ignorance.) "Rickard Karstark, Lord of Karhold." Robb lifted the heavy axe with both hands. "Here in sight of gods and men, I judge you guilty of murder and high treason. In mine own name I condemn you. With mine own hand I take your life. Would you speak a final word?"
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