Hugorfonics

Im surprisingly finding it hard. And i gtg but Ill try to find something for you later Thats certainly possible. I mean the Americans were freaking out as soon as they learned they were coming which is assuredly nothing but propoganda. Idk, they still have a pretty bad rep over here. And for sure the massacres in PA is also ascribed to Loyalists (prelude to battle of Trenton) but its said they wouldnt have snitched/ taken matters into their own hands without Hessian support. Then the martial law of NYC was designated by the crown and probably supported by some loyalists there but its still the Hessians who ran a city like a prison cell. Very Harrenhal like. You know how to aim a gun? Aim for red? The Puritans were quick to jump in bed with His Most Catholic Majesty and His Most Christian King (France and Spain), the war for independence became much more pragmatic. (some, not many, Native American tribes fought for America too) Why not? Because I think the call for Liberalism and Republicanism was and is a strong harbor for all peoples.

And the reign of Stephen was? Spreading fear through carnage is Medieval, thats like what its famous for. They frown at Tywin, too. Which does absolutely nothing. Its like the dumbest warfare possible, agreed. Thats why it resulted in a thousand year cycle. Ok, but to what extent? That posthumously, 1000 years later, we think he was a dick? Like Tywin, its not even a slap on the wrist. At the time some clergy, mainly the northern ones were appalled, no doubt. But then they paid their taxes and kept (keep) Williams decedents on the throne only to set a precedent that total war= results. As seen in the Anarchy, Henry II wars, Johns wars, you know, etc. Ok so the Hessians killed mad fucking civilians. Like incredible amounts, while their stewardship of New York City was comparable, if not worse, then Harrenhal. Seriously, like the highest death tolls in the war was in NYC war prisons (which was techinally ran by the Empire) The terror that the Hessians spread through their ferocity is a staple of the American Revolution and when the warhawk spirit hit America during the Wars, the mass graves in Belgium (wwi) and Ukraine (wwii) was seen as a direct call back from the Hessians mass graves of Pennsylvania.

But its not. The Romans in like Carthage or Judea sought to erase the populaces existence and history, like the Reynes and friend. But in Darry, which I think we all agree is like ground zero, is still flying the wheelbarrow. What your describing is medieval warfare, if we look at the English we can say the Anglo Saxon invasion was a war of extermination while the harrowing of the north and the anarchy was just total war on crack. Not genocide like the Romans and 30 year warriors hoped to achieve. Thats the middle ages. The enemy relies on his peasants. Therefore getting rid of the peasants was a common tactic in the middle ages, and it was not bad pr. Serfs dont count for the dint in the horseshoe, noblemen are another chivalric matter but serfs are not. The church frowned more when they didnt pay their taxes, the Vatican constantly got France to declare war on Germany and vice versa mixing Italy and GB as well. Plenty of infighting in the middle ages was a direct order from the Pope, where they were given free reign to kill any in the name of this "holy mission" (getting the destitute to pay their tithes) Ok cool, so like American Rev? We had like 7k dead in war and 70k dead by famine, pandemics, mercenaries and civil war. Its how mercenaries behave, sure. Which the 30 years and American Rev had in spades, but War o 5 is just Vargo (and maybe Saan?) so like if in American rev which had guns and cannons and stuff is still less then 100... War o 5 just cant feasibly be in the millions. The fuzz? GRRM likes to say that one person counting an army is different then another, that before modernization even the best census is more like guess work. I very much doubt he ever gave a concrete answer on the population of the 7 kingdoms

Surely not though. At the time the war(s) was thought to be a crusade against the godless where leaving no quarters was to be expected. This is just your typical rough and tumble medieval warfare, lords stay in castles while army pillages for supplies and undermines the defenders leadership. Like Darry which changed hands a few times and much of the infostructure was damaged and its populace displaced but now Darry is back to functioning again with more or less the populace from before. And Darry is I think a particularly damaged area in the war, Bracken and Blackwood lands for example in Jaimes chapter didnt look like a ghost town as one would find in the 30, Riverrun is thriving still and some of the Riverlands like Frey territory wasn't even touched. Dont get me wrong, its very bad. But not that bad. Its not a crusade to purge the unfaithful or whatever, its just, you know, a game. Huh. Im skeptical of 40 mill as well tbh. I mean London in 1400 isnt even 100k so that is 5 times smaller then KL, however London did just like, 50-100 years ago, crawl out of the bubonic. Which roughly thirded the population so, idk? Westeros is definitely larger than England, its more like the size of Han China which had a ridiculous population of like 70 mil or something, but they also had many cities that dwarf KL so idk if thats a great mark as well. But even if Westeros is as large as you say, the death toll wont be that large because this is not the 30 years war, it lasts one year, and many armies surrender in the field like Jaimes, Stafford, Stannis, Ashas, etc, and are taken prisoner not indiscriminately shot like one would expect in the 30.

Ok, right off the bat this looks wildly inaccurate by some serious digits. The War o Roses, a large inspiration for asoiaf, is roughly 100k, that's probably closer I think to the mark. The biggest battle with deaths, not just mass desertions and runaways is Blackwater as they drowned in fire, although even then scores of Stannis' men were left prisoners after the battle and characters like Kem got out alive. But like Ocross for example or the RW(camp attack), probably resulted in more runaways, like the Septon talked about, then millions of deaths which again Id say is extremely inflated. Although an interesting battle is the Wall where surely Weeper and co got out alive, yet so did the mammoths and one could imagine them stomping on Mances own men to get away, however the pointed question here I think is does this count as War o 5? After all we can count, and Mance brings up 6? Or with Renly's assassination does it move it back down to 5? But after Balon and Robb its 3? This is far too much arithmetic for my taste and I think we should define War o 5, similarly to how we define Blackfyre O Rebellion. The post war following the inept king. Yea, so Robert has to be here. Which of course is ridiculous, Aegon the unworthy didnt split his kingdoms, his children did, nevertheless the policy of Cersei banging her brother through guise and treason when followed down this specific rabbit hole leads to carnage. The same can be said for Sansas betrothment though which certainly clouds the issue, its not about being inept its about merely existing. I think we can safely say Tywin started his war when he illegally invaded the Riverlands, Stannis started his when he besieged the capital (Im nor sure if two assassinations count as war, although it certainly moves his kill count to +2) Balon when he annexed the North, And lastly Robb started his when he liberated his grandfather and his subjects. Which really throws another wrench into this death toll that can be measured like sugar. Did Robbs war prevent death or cause it? Would Gregor and the Tickler act as they did if Robb and Edmure remained pacified? Yea, idk. Could Stannis and Ned have played their hand better, sure! But JonA and then Ned do die so its certainly possible that Stannis' plans would have been futile and hed meet the same fate as he predicted he would. But, also, anybody could have feasibly prevented the deaths, by assassination. Which again is really dubiously walking the tight rope of judgment, but that is pretty much what Illyrio says. . "You drink a deal of wine for such a little man." "Kinslaying is dry work. It gives a man a thirst." The fat man's eyes glittered like the gemstones on his fingers. "There are those in Westeros who would say that killing Lord Lannister was merely a good beginning." . And lastly, this I dont think should be counted at all, except in like a medical journal. Its basically covid, not to mention the pandemic she directly confronts offering aides of welfare and passing legislation like quarantine. Kind of similar to Sansa this is an act of god/her enemies so its unfair to lay these deaths at her feet especially since shes doing her best, and frankly anyone's best, to prevent more deaths. (not just in this field but in the peace that she made with a continent worth of haters)

She dropped like every bombshell, real and imagined, at the trial. Surely that's a mistake. Ok, so first of all Tywin, as seen with Tysha, literally equates every woman as a common whore. None of this is rightly, Cersei is mentally ill and Tyrion taking Myrcella through poisoning Cersei and lying to their council (here I'll say rightly) caused her to go fucking insane and when she thought her son was now in danger she acted as she thought Daddy would and smacked up friends of the competition, Tyrion too, thought what would Daddy do? It's a threat, not even, a bad bluff. Hear me roar? Like why the fuck is Tywin teaching his kids if he doesn't want them to use their learning? The real problem is Tywin is bigoted against little people, equates his widowhood with his existence and most importantly is jealous af of his childrens far greater accomplishments. Tyrion being around with a nose would definitely, well likely, negate Tywins savor status as Tyrion would be the commander throughout the battle but as far as Cersei being like "I'm telling!", Yea, Tyrions fucked in succession. Tywin will take his princesses side over Tyrion any day. (But pretty much only Tyrion, Tywin will take anybody else's side over his princesses too) Imo Tywin was right about one thing, how much of a difference itd make, short of a nose, or not a nose, Who knows? And like he was about to drown and stuff but, It drives me nuts in tv shows and movies, like I get you wanna show the actors faces but they really gonna have no helmet?

Are you serious? Like, I know you know this. . It is not a comfortable seat, ser. Aerys cut himself so often men took to calling him King Scab, and Maegor the Cruel was murdered in that chair. By that chair, to hear some tell it. It is not a seat where a man can rest at ease. Ofttimes I wonder why my brothers wanted it so desperately." . "By rights the Seastone Chair belongs to Theon, or Asha if the prince is dead. That is the law." "Green land law," said Aeron with contempt. "What is that to us? We are ironborn, the sons of the sea, chosen of the Drowned God. No woman may rule over us, nor any godless man."

1. He desperately wanted it and its Viserys' after he cosigned dragonspawn 2. Cuz Euron murdered him and brought back a clarinet 3. ok cool. lol thanks. 4. Riverlands were free. For sure, Robb definitely fucked up with Theon but that was also due to his and Rams' genius, not to be expected 5. The succession war was started by Lannister and Stark, it like shouldnt even make sense, only Robert. Roose is not king of the North, and surely Frey is not of the Riverlands.

Neither of those choices are chasing a crown. You know the text "brothers desperately wanted it" But the text? Before the show, 5 years ago or whatever, you were here, I was definitely advocating for Queen Sansa. Who did you think takes Winterfell back then? Like Robb he was winning when murdered, I dont know if that makes the campaign a failure. Euron definitely abandoned it but certainly not for something less "unwinnable" His political snub on Stannis and promotion to Renly can only cause problems as they did when he was alive (stealing fleet, conniving against his wife) then when his two biggest supporters came to head he bungled every step of the way and miraculously started the succession war before he even died. I cant imagine a worse king, I mean he wasnt cruel, except for the times he was

Robb wanted to be a hero knight like all kids, but my point was he didnt chase the crown but accepted it. Balon makes it clear Theons not inheriting anything. Idk what Dagmer would do not do I really trust the words of Victarion. Botley was drowned which does bring up Euron and his desire to not watch a child play king. No, you did not think Sansa would be queen before the show ended? Balons a kickass king! First time not so much, but second time he won their full support. Theres a difference between a long king and a good king, and anyways Ned was neither. Robb was winning his war and im confident that whoever takes the mantle as successor of Robb will have to finish his war, which Sansa will. I mean baby Rickon or whomever.

As things stood it looked like itd be Asha, though Aeron didnt think so, but theres no way itd be Theon, short of a great military conquest or whatever. Renly was taking the throne based off of Roberts usurpation. North is super complicated too. So yes? Robert was a bad king, Robb was a good one. Yea sure, Beric killed himself over his promise to Arya and Sandor tried to find work in the Vale because Arya told him to

Someone named Arya is, and sure according to tradition her claim is weak but as seen in the Iron islands or with Robert, succession is complicated .You never thought that before? Im sure I suggested it to you at least lol Characters who want that turn out to be Robert and Theon, its characters like Robb who have no choice in leadership that shine so bright. Aryas super bossy, and its not just to these annoying kids, but the BWB or even Sandor wind up following her orders. Arya would be good at this job, she actually cares.

Arya is the current lady of Winterfell and a natural leader, there's no reason why she can't be those things and married. But not the same way right? Like I never even like Ned so I'm a bad example but I liked Cat but still liked the kids more. I liked Robb a lot too, but still not to the same degree. Why can't that be one of the girls? I'm sure he's important, just like Cat is still important. The show was just dumb and rushed and a money grab at the end

Yea. Very different. He can be a character but I doubt he can capture our hearts like Bran Jon and the girls, I'm invested in their story and will continue to be. Rickon on the throne doesn't really finish any arc for me

Nah, all the Sansa fans get super upset and accuse me of not being a Sansa fan, and im all like, wth? If a new OP should be had I think it should be on Stannis and his sense of humor. But idk if thats got legs, although I was also thinking of making like a analyze the hell outta my favorite passages scenes cuz we dont really do that here, we usually go very general. Like an OP can be when Arya says "you shouldnt have hit me with the axe (you shoulda let me die, im nothing now?), "you shoulda saved my mother (you should have died with me, how can i give you mercy now?) Thats my take, like why was Sandor asking for death? Why didnt Arya give it, is mercy and murder different?... But idk if thats got legs either. But yea, ok. Sansa moves mountains, from the first few pages Ned acts like hes totally turning down this job and has no idea why Roberts trying, then he mentions Sansa and Ned falls in line (Cat really). Lots of the antagonism, or at least Ladys death really shapes Neds and Aryas narrative as well as Cerseis and Joffs and then of course Sansa is the one who tells her father that Joff isnt Roberts and blows the casket. Sansa writes Robb a letter and he goes to war, pretty much over her. *insert theory* Tyrion sent Petyr to treat with Tyrell after Renlys assassination and the price that Olenna and Petyr agreed to was the murder of Tyrion and the kidnapping of Sansa to Highgarden, however Petyr double-crossed her and took her to the Vale. For this theory to work the pigeon pie was poisoned not the wine (which like I really think it was, only when I came here did I see people thought it was the wine)* Regardless you got Joff then Lysa all falling over each other. Its her. She obviously doesnt mean to, I mean Lysa was straight up trying to kill her and all Sansa did was hug the pillar. But like if she hear Lysas ramblings Lysa wouldnt have died. Sansa may have told Ned that Joff isnt Roberts, but she didnt know what the fuck she was talking about either. Nevertheless, the world spins. Tyrion walks right up to Cat with a big ass smile and just like begs to get arrested and start the war, again like Sansa he has know idea what the hell hes saying but so be it. He has a bit more free will, (maybe?) then Sansa and like saves KL instead of singing with Cersei. If you wanna chalk it up to his alliance with Tyrell or the fact that he scraped the fuck out of Stannis who lost his entire army without a foothold. Although freewill? Hes fighting for Joff, or maybe Cersei, or Tywin. All want him dead, he knows that and in the next book they all try their hardest to kill him (except maybe not Tywin who refuses to acknowledge his shit doesnt stink?) So why does he do it? It just nature to him, like singing with Cersei is to Sansa. And now hes just on the vengeance, taking Tywin out and rearranging the board because as Tyrion says "otherwise he woulda taken the crossbow away from me". When he tells Aegon to war without dragons because reasons and thinks got em, Idk if thats vengeance based or freewill based but its a wildcard. Now hes hooking up with Dany? Probably not gonna be the most honest hand?

Lol, yea I think it's gotta stay Sansa and Tyrion as I'm convinced they're the main characters of asoiaf. Although everyone tells me it's Jon, but deep down I know it's still Bran... Anyway, nobody knows everyone like these two come in my castle pros and they really do move the cyvasse board more then any other character. Petyr and Varys too, but for the most their biggest contributions are still when they help/hurt Sansa and Tyrion. But also Cersei, who of course is the ultimate antagonist to Sansa and Tyrion.

Oh you asked for it! lol (in order) 1. I agree, its gotta be the Imp. By far the funniest character, but its more than that too his plot I think is one of the most interesting as well. Not the most though, that is I think his wife. I also cant really see him as a bad guy, a tortured soul no doubt but if a Lannister pays his debts whyd he save Jorah? 2. The wife. Probably around late asos she crept up to the pantheon, just so much of asoiaf happens because Sansa breaths. Shes like Kevin Bacon, if eveyone around Kevin Bacon died. But again like her husband she looks out for her enemies, saving Lancel at BW while Cersei (politically astute) wanted him to bleed out. Sansas funny but not to the same degree, though that can be because she doesnt talk much. 3. Ramsay. Whenever people hear Im a Rams fan theyre usually like "oh your a psychopath", which is like not the reason (well maybe not the only reason). The way hes written, not in acok (whos still wonderfully written) but in adwd hes like fucking dracula. Can I hate Dracula, I feel like hes kinda beyond hate, hes just terrifying. But then when looking at what Ramsay does and how he does it, it fits some type of pattern. Hes not just a monster, honestly if I could count Reek as Ramsay too then he probably becomes my second favorite character. Thats the pantheon, but I have room in my heart for second tier favs as well. 4. Theon. I mean, gotta count Reek somehwere. Again even in acok he was high up there in the entertainment department, I think a big reason why Greyjoy is my favorite house is because they remind me of Theon, but come adwd and Theon enters a different department. GRRM's writings on Tyrion and Arya I think are consistently the best, most of my favorite literary passages are in their povs (tyrion talking to any sibling is fantastic, Arya talking to and witnessing Sandor is also a fav of mine) but Theons adwd povs are just super saiyan. Maybe its the Winterfell that brings GRRM alive? 5. Arya. Part of it I think is shes a little girl whos always sad and stuff so I just wanna hug her and tell her itll be fine, but it probably wont. If asoiaf didnt exist and we were only given povs as their own Arya alone could stack as her own story, shes got the politics the magic the wolf. Shes like that old Nike commercial, anything you can do I can do better. 6. Dany. I mean, pick a tougher princess. The khalessi. Funny, engaging, inspiring, the mental image of Emilia Clarke. Whats not to love? Not favs, but I love em anyway, in no order Danys whole crew minus Selmy and Missandi (theyre ok), Mance, Sandor, Victarion, Cersei, Cat, Petyr and Moonnboy for all I know

Arya never said she doesn't want to get married, she said she doesn't want to be a stay at home mother and wife but thats different. I really don't see Rickon taking it, the theme of succession is so prevalent with Greyjoy, Martell and Lannister while it's true the only Winterfell one who thinks about this stuff is Jon, I do think Stark Succession is and always has been a fairly interesting plot. They can't give it to Rickon, he's like not even a character

Agreed! To add a few pros. Currently the Lady of Winterfell decreed by Tommen. Capable of ordering Bolton "allies" as well as Stannis' northern army. Cons. Thats not Arya. Ok, new list. Pros. Able to Mystique anybody. Capable of skinchanging lucid, can warg across continents. Honestly probably, by far the greatest leader in asoiaf. The loyalty she commands with former enemies like Hotpie and Lommy comes naturally, similarly she refuses to abandon her squad in Harrenhal or on the road once again proving her leadership qualities. I do still think Sansa has a greater chance on succeeding Robb as well with Jon but I dont think either can do a good of a job as Arya, though I think they both can still be efficient. Bran I think would be too effective reducing the lords to really nothing where Rickon would probably be useless and just a figurehead for Manderly or whatever lord winds up pulling his strings. My bet? Tom.

Yeah, idk. Bran shares with the birds, right? At first he goes to hard and then like, (damn I don't even really remember... fuck) the ravens reject him? Or crash on impact? But doesn't he kinda like share the bird along with the animal and the X amount of skinchangers past? What Vayrmar loosens his grip they tare him up, cuz he did have his grip on their conscience. Maybe that was the way he was trained or maybe he never finished the training, but whatever. But Brynden teaches something different. And with Arya, like you say it's not natural, which so be it however you can't spell supernatural without natural. Why do dogs follow their master and birds fly into cages? Idk, but they do. Her powers are just mad strong which is why she rips her linen at night and when she lost her eyesight, like Matt Murdock, she strengthened her other senses, it's kinda in like a magic gasoline in your eyes (or however Daredevil got his powers) way, natural. Could the power be abused for weird stalky Daredevil style of manipulation, that's probably why Starks have been running the show for 10k years. Capable of evil? Um yea, sure and honestly Aryas fucked, Jaqens three wishes was such a dick move, really makings of a monster scenario, but at the end of the day, like Tyrion in position to play Lucifers tune, they still do good, they off spell their wickedness with kindness. Kinda like Bran, who's teacher of Jojen at least was a stand up gent. The power of resistance is there. Yin Yang shit. Which is why the two fundamental rules, two human rules if you will, no cannibals, ni beastiality is there. If a normal human is into either of that shit, it's fucking disgusting and they need help which is why the rules are there, to clearly separate man from beast. Right, skinchangers aren't beasts, they're just leasing them. As far as the ostracization that's just cruel and practically stupid. Bran didn't ask to wake up as Summer nor did Summer ask to form a bond with Bran, but they did. Joshua York in fact did have a friend, and their friendship was mutually beneficial. I mean this is superhero shit 101, it's unfair to prejudge the different and their potential powers. Which you know isn't the most rational, but that's also why bad guys are so captivating, like Magneto or Lex Luthor but when you start agreeing with them, I mean it's a slippy road (what about frogmen, etc)

And the Vale lol

Oh that's interesting. I mean this general line I don't think holds weight, just because somebody is an outlaw or wanted does not make them single, in fact Tyrion reflects just on that But yea what happens to the wives of men sent to the NW? If they remarry are their new kids still legally bastards? Can smallfolk get annulled? Seems unlikely but I suppose why not. Yea! A reverse Viking! I think that's highly likely. Way more likely then Tyrion taking the North imo. Sansas story I think can lead to so many places, so even though shes just like a minor piece she can really fit an complete like any puzzle. (North, RL, Vale, KL, the West). Or frankly, all the puzzles

Yea I think there's a lot of like professor x and the bad guy wears a helmet so he doesn't get mind raped in there too. Not exactly sure about the whole x men thing but GRRM is. So to kinda answer the op but to respond to you, do you think Bran will get addicted to mind enslavement? Or that he'll realize it's wrong and like, not violate his stableboy? Because I think there's a decent chance Bran will turn from his teachings. I think the thing with Varamyr is he was a warlord who took his animals and made them do carnage and stuff, or like, idk, couldn't share or something? They're definitely different then the direwolves who run up to their master like Ghost, climbing walls like Ygritte or whatever. Or even Arya with the cat, it's like the difference between invading and spending the night. Very presumptuous but kinda regal like Robert staying at his lords for dinner. Also

Yeah, it's probably too difficult. So we got this Whatever the hell a council of faith is, idk. Could it feasibly be some on hand Vale divorce lawyers? Absolutely, but it's probably not. Besides LF just says Tyrions dead and Sansa believes him, it's not the best lie because there's a world wide bounty on his head and Alaynes friends with a gossip, but Petyrs not the best liar. Just a consistent one. Anyway, could the HS be bribed? No. He can hardly be talked to or they'll wind up like Cersei. I think it's just best to leave him out of as many conversations as they can. But totally Alaynes Hardying can bring up Tysha and maybe track that Septon down who probably (but not definitely) did not get a trained seal or a council of trained seals to annul Tyrion, but whats that going to even do? Are they gonna separate? Make uncomfortable smalltalk about peas over dinner? Sansa has a thousand reasons to not marry Harry, is Tyrion a big one? Honestly he's kind of a small one. Also an annulment is a two sided thing, Tyrion can totally pull like a Catherine of Aragon and be like "nope". It's all very speculative, I'm sure Tyrions upset she used him which led to all of his travesties but he also does seem to care about her and the idea of him "rescuing" her/ burning down the Vale seems like a possibility where this storyline goes. Also theres the uncomfortable fact that he's probably going to be working on putting a potential polygamist on the throne, which if it drifted down one class could put a whole damper on the your already married bit. Although for both Tyrion and Sansas Lannindyng, Hardannnister... I'm like 99% sure Sansas gonna make it. I'm 50/50 with Tyrion

I kinda get that. Especially with Dorne which I did find pretty boring, not boring exactly but it reinforced my thinking of like why am I reading asoiaf and literally not Tyrion? Nevertheless if someone says think of asoiaf, it's Brienne on her journey, it's very I guess vivid imagery that takes you into Westeros that captured me. And actually I agree with you that Dorne kinda sucks because it's a new plot (that's not Tyrion lol) but the Ironborn are not, right? Like they're not Theon but they're pretty close and personally I was captivated by Greyjoys with their wild schemes and funny smack talking. Some characters like Sansa or Arya (Jaime) though are pretty consistent with their interesting plots compared to the first three and then we're given a Cersei pov which is just awesome. Adwd I think is just really the best writing I've ever read, especially Tyrion and Theon chapters. I do love asos because I agree shit just pops off every chapter but like the actual words and stuff, I don't see how any literature can beat Theon. Imo the worst for reread is agot because it's kinda a whodunnit, or not really who but why, it's a detective novel almost. But since we know who did it now (it was not the butler) it looses lots of it's zest.