Are Stannis Fans conservatives?

[Roose The Weddingcrasher]

As far as I understand, your theory only makes sense assuming that people that like Stannis consider his ideals to be timelessly right.

This approach is problematic no matter which character it's applied to, since even while their ideals and "ours" might be similar after some degree of abstraction, the ethics the Westeori characters derive from those obviously differ. According to you, Stannis, Ned, and Dany-fans alike should be against democracy and for capital punishment. It's not about what the characters do, it's about how they interpreted the world they lived in to make the decisions they made.

I can only speak for myself. (Part of) What makes Stannis awesome, is that he tries to follow almost all the rules of his time simultaneously. He obviously almost never succeeds with this, but, unlike Jaime, which imo would be a very good counter-example, he never thinks of the attempt as futile and struggles to stay true to himself.
I guess I could be considered a left-wing voter, but I have not been interested in politics for quite some time, and occasionally find convincing arguments on both sides. Some positions I sympathize with are liberal, some are conservative.

[devilrob6]

I'm a left-wing voter and Stannis is one of my favourite characters.

I don't feel Stannis is devout. He recognizes Melisandres powers and uses them, he tells that to Davos. Most of his followers are devout and i feel his choices to burn septs and weirwoods and convert wildlings to r'hllor are more politically based, to keep his Queen's men content. I think Stannis is doing a tight-rope act here, since this might turn against him and making a wrong step can make him fall. Also i believe that the burnings would be much worse if Stannis wasn't there and if Mel/Selyse/Axell could do what they like without Stannis holding them back.

[houseHB]

Are Dany fans conservative? I mean she does like to invade other countries instead of focusing at home (Westeros)?

[Stan the Man Baratheon]

Are Dany fans conservative? I mean she does like to invade other countries instead of focusing at home (Westeros)?

Like America? She likes to invade the country of brown people aka Middle East like America.

[Batman]

Mostly the fact that he was the courage to stand by what he knows is right even when the odds seem impossible. Alester Florent could have given him Storms End (probably) but he was Roberts heir.

[protar]

I disagree with that. She's young and impulsive, sure, but not insane. After my reread it's an obvious cop out in character analysis.

And yes, you know what's going to get you beheaded, or burned, under Stannis... which is pretty much anything he disagrees with... or if you happen to have 'king's blood' that he needs. Totally sane there. And remember what happened when Stannis called his banners? Many from Dragonstone didn't show and none from Storm's End. Stannis breeds disloyalty by his own admission.

The question of Dany's mental health is really a topic for a different thread, but I would say it's clearly in question. She's not at her dad's level just yet but it won't be long.

In any case, you're severely overestimating Stannis' lack of mercy. He has a fair bit and is more bendable than he lets on. He accepts what is essentially insubordination and even treason on Davos' part because he knows that Davos is right. He doesn't just kill people for King's blood willy nilly, he's clearly having a crisis of morality here - as would anyone given the choice between killing one boy or dooming millions. If Stannis was such a robot Edric would be dead before Davos could commit the treasonous rescue (which Stannis forgives.). He also pardons the Lords who sided with Renly first and is willing to cooperate with Jon even after Jon rejects his offer of Lordship.

As for loyalty, it's a problem when it comes to warfare but again I think it's exaggerated. All of the Narrow Sea Houses heeded Stannis' call at the start of the WOTFKs and they are the only Houses that actually swear fealty to him. Storm's End didn't follow him because they belonged to Renly, not simply because they didn't like Stannis. When the Narrow Sea Houses do object or rebel it's either as a result of Melisandre, or because the Lannisters crushed them utterly and they had no choice but to bend the knee.

And look at Tywin for a second. He is far more ruthless, merciless and un-charismatic than Stannis is. And yet is able to rally all of the Westerlands and eventually the Reach, (and much of the Riverlands and the North) to his cause. Because he's already in a position of great power. If Stannis was in charge of an entire kingdom and Tywin had been left to rule some backwater the roles would have been reversed.

[Stan the Man Baratheon]

The question of Dany's mental health is really a topic for a different thread, but I would say it's clearly in question. She's not at her dad's level just yet but it won't be long.

In any case, you're severely overestimating Stannis' lack of mercy. He has a fair bit and is more bendable than he lets on. He accepts what is essentially insubordination and even treason on Davos' part because he knows that Davos is right. He doesn't just kill people for King's blood willy nilly, he's clearly having a crisis of morality here - as would anyone given the choice between killing one boy or dooming millions. If Stannis was such a robot Edric would be dead before Davos could commit the treasonous rescue (which Stannis forgives.). He also pardons the Lords who sided with Renly first and is willing to cooperate with Jon even after Jon rejects his offer of Lordship.

As for loyalty, it's a problem when it comes to warfare but again I think it's exaggerated. All of the Narrow Sea Houses heeded Stannis' call at the start of the WOTFKs and they are the only Houses that actually swear fealty to him. Storm's End didn't follow him because they belonged to Renly, not simply because they didn't like Stannis. When the Narrow Sea Houses do object or rebel it's either as a result of Melisandre, or because the Lannisters crushed them utterly and they had no choice but to bend the knee.

And look at Tywin for a second. He is far more ruthless, merciless and un-charismatic than Stannis is. And yet is able to rally all of the Westerlands and eventually the Reach, (and much of the Riverlands and the North) to his cause. Because he's already in a position of great power. If Stannis was in charge of an entire kingdom and Tywin had been left to rule some backwater the roles would have been reversed.

THIS.

[Nictarion]

In any case, you're severely overestimating Stannis' lack of mercy. He has a fair bit and is more bendable than he lets on.

"He will break before he bends"~Donal Noye

[Stan the Man Baratheon]

"He will break before he bends"~Donal Noye

We do know that Donal Noye's Assessment of Stannis is not completely true. He hasn't seen Stannis in Ages. People Change.

[Sansa_Stark]

We do know that Donal Noye's Assessment of Stannis is not completely true. He hasn't seen Stannis in Ages. People Change.

This.

Don't take other characters assessments about other characters as absolute fact.

Use their actions and words to judge them.

[Sansa_Stark]

I don't take Donal's comments as anything.

I absolutely believe that Renly would have made an excellent king.

Robert = steel

Stannis = iron

Renly = copper is what he said. I think Renly is Valyrian steel.

Good to look at, and strong and efficient.

:)

[Nictarion]

This.

Don't take other characters assessments about other characters as absolute fact.

Use their actions and words to judge them.

Thanks for the advice. I happen to agree with Noye's assessment though.

[houseHB]

Also, Stannis is accpeting of foreign religions (the red god). Something today's conservatives are lacking

[( Bloodraven )]

Thanks for the advice. I happen to agree with Noye's assessment though.

Even his assessment of Renly?

[Nictarion]

Even his assessment of Renly?

Yes, all three brothers. I think he had them pegged.

[protar]

I don't take Donal's comments as anything.

I absolutely believe that Renly would have made an excellent king.

Robert = steel

Stannis = iron

Renly = copper is what he said. I think Renly is Valyrian steel.

Good to look at, and strong and efficient.

:)

He's still copper. But I think Martin is making a bit of a joke here. As we know in our modern society copper is actually pretty damn useful (such as it's use in electrical circuits.). But it isn't really seen as useful. Renly would have been a good king but he's dismissed as just being a useless pretty boy.

[The Marquis de Leech]

In any case, you're severely overestimating Stannis' lack of mercy. He has a fair bit and is more bendable than he lets on. He accepts what is essentially insubordination and even treason on Davos' part because he knows that Davos is right.

Exactly. Think of what Tywin's reaction would have been in Stannis' shoes.

[ejhawman]

Maybe we can get a crude vote by looking over the responses here...

I consider myself somewhat liberal (not a dirty word anymore, with the conservatives hijacked by reactionaries and general purpose nuts). I respect Stannis. I could see him as a heroic character in a simpler story. He's not really LIKEABLE, not intended to be warm and cuddly, but he stands for a position that in many other works is held by the protagonist or his/her lord.

[Sansa_Stark]

The question of Dany's mental health is really a topic for a different thread, but I would say it's clearly in question. She's not at her dad's level just yet but it won't be long.

In any case, you're severely overestimating Stannis' lack of mercy. He has a fair bit and is more bendable than he lets on. He accepts what is essentially insubordination and even treason on Davos' part because he knows that Davos is right. He doesn't just kill people for King's blood willy nilly, he's clearly having a crisis of morality here - as would anyone given the choice between killing one boy or dooming millions. If Stannis was such a robot Edric would be dead before Davos could commit the treasonous rescue (which Stannis forgives.). He also pardons the Lords who sided with Renly first and is willing to cooperate with Jon even after Jon rejects his offer of Lordship.

As for loyalty, it's a problem when it comes to warfare but again I think it's exaggerated. All of the Narrow Sea Houses heeded Stannis' call at the start of the WOTFKs and they are the only Houses that actually swear fealty to him. Storm's End didn't follow him because they belonged to Renly, not simply because they didn't like Stannis. When the Narrow Sea Houses do object or rebel it's either as a result of Melisandre, or because the Lannisters crushed them utterly and they had no choice but to bend the knee.

And look at Tywin for a second. He is far more ruthless, merciless and un-charismatic than Stannis is. And yet is able to rally all of the Westerlands and eventually the Reach, (and much of the Riverlands and the North) to his cause. Because he's already in a position of great power. If Stannis was in charge of an entire kingdom and Tywin had been left to rule some backwater the roles would have been reversed.

Spot on.

Tywin would be nothing if not for his extremely high birth and wealth imo.

[Grip]

Exactly. Think of what Tywin's reaction would have been in Stannis' shoes.

Well said, that's a good comparison.