coil Posted January 21, 2014 Share Posted January 21, 2014 ^^ previous two posts, it's the third time today I've caught a foreshadowing about Tyrion and greyscale, might as well be starting a thread soon. Then make sure to quote his dream after the Battle of Blackwater in ACoK, there the hints are more than huge! But to be honest the foreshadowing comes from the very first book: talking about good planning from GRRM... I haven't read TPatQ, but judging from what I'm reading here it looks like a sort of foreshadowing compendium for the readers... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost's Shadow Posted January 21, 2014 Share Posted January 21, 2014 So: - Aegon has JonCon- Dany has Tyrion- Jon has Shireen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mithras Posted January 21, 2014 Share Posted January 21, 2014 And Sunfyre, that splendid golden beast, had one wing half torn from his body, whilst his royal rider had suffered broken ribs, a broken hip, and burns that covered half his body. His left arm was the worst. The dragonflame had burned so hot that the king’s armor had melted into his flesh. Notice the damages effecting only half of Sunfyre and Aegon? I think these show that Blackfyre's male side vanished by they are recovering by the female side. The skin of the Targaryens can be taken as gold both by the appearance and the fact that they are the royal house. Aegon's armor melted into his flesh. Is it related to the motto of the Golden Company? Beneath the gold, the bitter steel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FittleLinger Posted January 21, 2014 Share Posted January 21, 2014 Then make sure to quote his dream after the Battle of Blackwater in ACoK, there the hints are more than huge! But to be honest the foreshadowing comes from the very first book: talking about good planning from GRRM... I haven't read TPatQ, but judging from what I'm reading here it looks like a sort of foreshadowing compendium for the readers... Can you please quote this dream as I don't have ACOK with me? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tf13 Posted January 21, 2014 Share Posted January 21, 2014 In ASOS, Arya's chapter at Stony Sept, she gives one of the caged murderers, who is certainly to die regardless, a drink from the fish fountain. Foreshadowing what we'll soon see of giving "the gift" in the House of Black and White. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Crow's Third Eye Posted January 21, 2014 Share Posted January 21, 2014 In ASOS, Arya's chapter at Stony Sept, she gives one of the caged murderers, who is certainly to die regardless, a drink from the fish fountain. Foreshadowing what we'll soon see of giving "the gift" in the House of Black and White. She actually gives the first person the "gift" by offering them a drink from the fountain (when she first arrives) so nice catch! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tf13 Posted January 21, 2014 Share Posted January 21, 2014 Nice catch, foreshadowing for Tyrion joining Dany, and I think GRRM might deceive the reader into thinking Tyrion doesn't have greyscale only to find out later he does on the inside. There's a reason GRRM included the whole "You can get greyscale from the outside-in, or from the inside-out", yet we've only seen an instance of externally-first greyscale. Someone's got it on the inside. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winnief Posted January 21, 2014 Share Posted January 21, 2014 There's a reason GRRM included the whole "You can get greyscale from the outside-in, or from the inside-out", yet we've only seen an instance of externally-first greyscale. Someone's got it on the inside. Good point-he wouldn't have made a point of mentioning that, if it wasn't going to come up later-someone with greyscale, who won't KNOW they have greyscale, for a very long time.... Could be Tyrion but also possibly Dany-or both... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost's Shadow Posted January 21, 2014 Share Posted January 21, 2014 And then Val with her fears of Shireen... Only the Wildlings know what their winter does with greyscale, Maesters's opinions be damned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fire Eater Posted January 21, 2014 Author Share Posted January 21, 2014 And Sunfyre, that splendid golden beast, had one wing half torn from his body, whilst his royal rider had suffered broken ribs, a broken hip, and burns that covered half his body. His left arm was the worst. The dragonflame had burned so hot that the king’s armor had melted into his flesh. Notice the damages effecting only half of Sunfyre and Aegon? I think these show that Blackfyre's male side vanished by they are recovering by the female side. The skin of the Targaryens can be taken as gold both by the appearance and the fact that they are the royal house. Aegon's armor melted into his flesh. Is it related to the motto of the Golden Company? Beneath the gold, the bitter steel. The left wing was described as half-torn so there would be a rift in the alliance between Arianne and Aegon. As for the entire battle: Winterfell had spoken for Rhaenys at Harrenhal, as had Lord Stark's bannermen The Red Queen she was called, for the scarlet scales that covered her . . . Against Vhagar and Sunfyre together, doom was certain. till Vhagar fell upon them [the Red Queen and Sunfyre] from above. The Red Queen seems to be a reference to Melisandre and Stannis, given not just the scarlet scales, but her rider Rhaenys, had a Baratheon parent, giving her both Targaryen and Baratheon lineage like Stannis, and she was supported by the North in her claim to the IT like Stannis is now. Vhagar is ridden by the Aemond, whose nickname was "the Kinslayer", so it could be a reference to Tyrion who is a known kinslayer. I think this is foreshadowing that Tyrion will be the downfall of both Stannis and Aegon-Arianne. Good point-he wouldn't have made a point of mentioning that, if it wasn't going to come up later-someone with greyscale, who won't KNOW they have greyscale, for a very long time.... I don't think so for Dany. I think should Tyrion learn he has greyscale, and know that his days are numbered, he would rather die heroically in battle rather than a slow, painful death by greyscale. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coil Posted January 21, 2014 Share Posted January 21, 2014 Can you please quote this dream as I don't have ACOK with me? My books are in italian, I'll do a summary: ACoK Tyrion's last chapter. Tyrion's outside of the city (King's Landing), marching in a world devoid of colours. Grey crows, grey sky, grey wolves and grey silent sister. The whole world is in shades of black and white. There are also funeral pyres (and afaik the only pyres used for funeral are Targ ones... unless we are dealing with epidemies?). The dream also ends with Tyrion having no mouth and being unable to speak. This is the best I can do... sorry >_> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winnief Posted January 21, 2014 Share Posted January 21, 2014 I don't think so for Dany. I think should Tyrion learn he has greyscale, and know that his days are numbered, he would rather die heroically in battle rather than a slow, painful death by greyscale. Very possibly. I like the idea of him going down fighting the Others-possibly on a dragon's back. Tyrion's outside of the city (King's Landing), marching in a world devoid of colours. Grey crows, grey sky, grey wolves and grey silent sister. The whole world is in shades of black and white. There are also funeral pyres (and afaik the only pyres used for funeral are Targ ones... unless we are dealing with epidemies?). The dream also ends with Tyrion having no mouth and being unable to speak. Wow, that's definitely foreshadowing Greyscale...I have to say this thread has given me a much richer appreciation of the books-and for how carefully thought out, the series is. If only GRRM could work on his PACING... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Crow's Third Eye Posted January 21, 2014 Share Posted January 21, 2014 Very possibly. I like the idea of him going down fighting the Others-possibly on a dragon's back. That doesn't really seem very Tyrion-esque though. Admittedly he fought bravely on the Blackwater but Ican't see a repeat, particularly after he saw how little gratitude he received. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winnief Posted January 21, 2014 Share Posted January 21, 2014 That doesn't really seem very Tyrion-esque though. Admittedly he fought bravely on the Blackwater but Ican't see a repeat, particularly after he saw how little gratitude he received. Yeah, but again death by battle is better than death by greyscale, and Tyrion despite thwarted dreams of glory in the past might truly believe in the cause of fighting the Others. After all that isn't another battle for power, but literally taking on an existential threat to every living human being in Westeros. And he might feel compelled, to make up for some of his family's misdeeds when he gets the final toll on what Cersei's done. Or most likely a need to prove himself, and that his father-and everyone else who slighted him-were all wrong and to do so in such a public fashion that no one could ever deny or forget it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coil Posted January 21, 2014 Share Posted January 21, 2014 Very possibly. I like the idea of him going down fighting the Others-possibly on a dragon's back. Wow, that's definitely foreshadowing Greyscale...I have to say this thread has given me a much richer appreciation of the books-and for how carefully thought out, the series is. If only GRRM could work on his PACING... I'll just point out that there are also many Tyrion/Gargoyle comparisons (including Davos patting a gargoyle's head and Tyrion receiving the same treatment when he's a slave), the fact that during ACoK's prologue Cressen thinks "If only their mouth could speak", Tyrion's continuous "My mouth will be my death", he dreaming about the Shroud Lord's kiss etc. Btw I also think that Tyrion losing his tongue is thematically awesome, since all the Lannister boys seem to lose their strongest point: Jaime's right hand, Cersei losing her beauty (and like Littlefinger says in AFfC that's her only assets that is actually hers and not given by someone else)... Tyrion losing his nose wasn't that much of a deal since he was already one of the ugliest men in Westeros, also it didn't hinder him from doing anything. The ability to use his wits, however, would be a totally different deal ^^ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fire Eater Posted January 21, 2014 Author Share Posted January 21, 2014 That doesn't really seem very Tyrion-esque though. Admittedly he fought bravely on the Blackwater but Ican't see a repeat, particularly after he saw how little gratitude he received. I don't see him dying against fighting against the Others, but possibly to save Dany. It would be a good redemptive death for him. From my post upthread I [Tyrion] am only a little lion The Little Lion, did you say? What, was he a dwarf or some such? Gyles the Third took his banners east to war against the Storm King . . .When their king [Lancel V Lannister] died, the westermen turned back, and the Reach was saved. The story of the Little Lion has Osgrey fighting a Lannister king from the North, and he kills the king but the battle costs him his life. His story is mentioned again when Eustace is thinking of killing the Red Widow, whom he later marries. Dany will be widowed twice, and her sigil is a red dragon, so she could be a parallel to the Red Widow. I think it will be the case of the giant saving the Red Widow instead of assassinating her. Invert it a little, and I think Tyrion, the little lion, will fight the king coming from the North, Stannis, who is from the storm lands and descended from the Storm Kings, when Dany is about to head east for KL held by the rest of the Lannisters and Cersei's third child to rule, and he will be the one to kill Stannis in battle. It will possibly be partly to protect Dany when Stannis is heading in for the kill. The endeavor will cost him his life, and like Rhaegar, Tyrion may die fighting on the Trident for the woman he loved. The Northmen will turn back North after Stannis dies. I think I pissed off both StanStans and Dany fans with this one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winnief Posted January 21, 2014 Share Posted January 21, 2014 Btw I also think that Tyrion losing his tongue is thematically awesome, since all the Lannister boys seem to lose their strongest point: Jaime's right hand, Cersei losing her beauty (and like Littlefinger says in AFfC that's her only assets that is actually hers and not given by someone else)... Tyrion losing his nose wasn't that much of a deal since he was already one of the ugliest men in Westeros, also it didn't hinder him from doing anything. The ability to use his wits, however, would be a totally different deal oooh, interesting idea. That would also be a loss for us readers, though, not to mention the viewing audience... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caesar beyond the wall Posted January 21, 2014 Share Posted January 21, 2014 ^^ previous two posts, it's the third time today I've caught a foreshadowing about Tyrion and greyscale, might as well be starting a thread soon.If you are, there are numerous references to Tyrion as a gargoyle aka a monster carved of stone dotted throughout the booksEDIT: Ninja'd Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Crow's Third Eye Posted January 21, 2014 Share Posted January 21, 2014 Jon's dream before he lets the Wildligs through the Wall;"As dead men reahed the top of the Wall he sent them down to die again. he slew a greybeard and a beardless boy, a giant, A GAUNT MAN WITH FILED TEETH, a girl with thick red hair." (capitals because I cant bold on my phome)Could this foreshadow Jon killing Stannis? That is who sprang to.mind from the brief description. Also not sure if anyome had thoughts on the greybeard, beardless boy and the giant Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lyse Stark Posted January 21, 2014 Share Posted January 21, 2014 Jon's dream before he lets the Wildligs through the Wall;"As dead men reahed the top of the Wall he sent them down to die again. he slew a greybeard and a beardless boy, a giant, A GAUNT MAN WITH FILED TEETH, a girl with thick red hair." (capitals because I cant bold on my phome)Could this foreshadow Jon killing Stannis? That is who sprang to.mind from the brief description. Also not sure if anyome had thoughts on the greybeard, beardless boy and the giant I'm not sure if this man is Biter or a wholly new character. I think that the filed teeth make me think of him, and he sure looked scary with all these teeth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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