Jyana Reed

[oursisthefury69]

If you really take the "of the cranogmen" point that seriously theres certainly no use in debating you. That's like saying Jon has to be a bastard of the north because he s always refered to as Jon Snow

[Joseph Stark]

the earlier appendix also list baby aegon being dead........on to my theory.....i remember reading a post by i believe it was ran or it might have been an ssm stating that jons parentage would resemble luke skywalker so.....i believe that rhaegar and lyanna had twins a boy(jon snow) who went to live as ned starks bastard son and a daughter(meera reed) who went to live with howland reed in the neck....as far as jyanna goes i believe she is really ashara dayne who went with howland and married him and helped raise meera as their own trueborn daughter partially to fill the void left by the death of her own stillborn daughter....if there were 2 babies it would make sense that the only 2 survivors of the TOJ would each take one to care for and raise....IMO it was much smarter,safer, and far less suspicious to raise them seperate....perhaps after all the events of the rebellion before during and after( including losing her baby and her brother) and possibly the loss of the man she loved(depending on who you believe the father was) and by loss could mean death or as in neds case she lost him by not being able to see him again....maybe it was all too much and she faked her death so she could get awa from it all and dissapear into the neck and start a new life with howland

[Veltigar]

snip

If she had remained at Starfall they would have questioned her and Ned a like. But now her tragic death stands there as a barrier to these questions.

[Jon's Queen Consort]

snip

Meera has green eyes, Lyanna had grey and Rhaegar lilac. She couldn't be their daughter.

[Hangover of the Morning]

If she had remained at Starfall they would have questioned her and Ned a like. But now her tragic death stands there as a barrier to these questions.

Who would question her? It is not as if there was an official inquest into who Ned's bastard mother was. And she can always lie or opt to not to say anything. Nobody besides the readers of the book care. Winterfell's stuff gossiped about it, Ned's friends (Robert and Jon Arryn) and wife might have been curious but no one ever suspected that Ned was not the father.

[Veltigar]

Who would question her? It is not as if there was an official inquest into who Ned's bastard mother was. And she can always lie or opt to not to say anything. Nobody besides the readers of the book care. Winterfell's stuff gossiped about it, Ned's friends (Robert and Jon Arryn) and wife might have been curious but no one ever suspected that Ned was not the father.

and that would be different if ashara had lived. her tragic death blocked off questioning at large, if she had lived there would be a lot more attention to jon's parentage

[Joseph Stark]

are you sure about that? i thought it was jojen who had the green eyes because he was a greenseer? my theory also explains why she is more of a warrior and skilled hunter while jojen is more of a thinker and not much of a warrior like a his father howland

[Blugenes]

If Jyana is actually Ashara Dayne, that makes Meera potentially the "stillborn daughter" who subsequently married Howland Reed (who claims legitimacy over the child) and went to the Crannog with him. If she was impregnated by Brandon Stark but knew from court about Lyanna and Rhaegar having a child together you get two witnesses to the Tower of Joy with knowledge of true parentage along with a possible wife for Jon. Ashara has every reason to want to go into hiding considering the child and the knowledge she keeps. If Jon should marry her for whatever reason he might be able to lay clam to Dawn, or maybe Meera herself could claim it.

[Jon's Queen Consort]

are you sure about that? i thought it was jojen who had the green eyes because he was a greenseer? my theory also explains why she is more of a warrior and skilled hunter while jojen is more of a thinker and not much of a warrior like a his father howland

Yes Meera has green eyes too.

[Joseph Stark]

there is such thing as recessive genes but idk if that is a thing in asoiaf universe

[MadFish]

If Jon's parentage reveal is going to be anything like Luke Skywalker's, then

1. He's going to meet his father face to face (and if R+L=J, that can't happen)

OR

2. Lyanna had twins.

If neither one of those are true, I don't see how Jon's parentage reveal would be anything like Luke's. So I kinda like the idea that Jon has a twin sister somewhere out there.

[Muggle]

I would not be surprised if Jyana is Lyana married to H Reed. Making Jojen and Meera Jon's step brothers.

[Blugenes]

I thought Robb, Meera, and Jon were all the same age?

[Hangover of the Morning]

I would not be surprised if Jyana is Lyana married to H Reed. Making Jojen and Meera Jon's step brothers.

??? So who did Ned burry in the crypts? And why wouldn't Lyanna/Jyanna take Jon with her to the Neck?

[Jon Weirgaryen]

Meera has green eyes, Lyanna had grey and Rhaegar lilac. She couldn't be their daughter.

Jojen's are said to have turned green. So they will have started off a different colour.

Also we have Tyrion's mismatched eyes and if real worldly biology has a say: some traits may jump a generation and reappear in the grandchildren. In my family tree this seems to happen.

I thought Robb, Meera, and Jon were all the same age?

I must have been mistaken when I had noted Meera down as being 1-2 years older than Robb (born early in 282 ... for reasons of trying to establish the ages while reading first time through now lost to me.). The Wiki tells me both were born in 283! So I find myself contradicted and lost, will need to go back to find the clues again. Jon and Robb are roughly the same age, that's true.

[King of Winters]

Jojen's are said to have turned green. So they will have started off a different colour.

Also we have Tyrion's mismatched eyes and if real worldly biology has a say: some traits may jump a generation and reappear in the grandchildren. In my family tree this seems to happen.

Well that could be applied to Jojen being Ashara's and Howland's son and he had purple eyes, as members of the Daynes do, and then they turned green after he caught that fever.

I must have been mistaken when I had noted Meera down as being 1-2 years older than Robb (born early in 282 ... for reasons of trying to establish the ages while reading first time through now lost to me.). The Wiki tells me both were born in 283! So I find myself contradicted and lost, will need to go back to find the clues again. Jon and Robb are roughly the same age, that's true.

Robb is slightly older than Jon, and so is Meera. So she's not the right age to be Jon's twin.

[King of Winters]

If Jon's parentage reveal is going to be anything like Luke Skywalker's, then

1. He's going to meet his father face to face (and if R+L=J, that can't happen)

OR

2. Lyanna had twins.

If neither one of those are true, I don't see how Jon's parentage reveal would be anything like Luke's. So I kinda like the idea that Jon has a twin sister somewhere out there.

Or it could be something like he was raised by his uncle and aunt, never knew his real mother and father until later on, his mother died after she gave birth to him, he was raised believing his real father was bad or did something bad; in this case it's that he kidnapped Lyanna. Similar to Luke Skywalker.

[The Wolf Lord's Daughter]

No, I don't think so. If this was the case, why even mention her in the appendix? We haven't met her yet (unlike Jon) so there was no need to lie. It's not like every single lord's wife is listed on it. Jon is a main character so it makes sense that he's listed as Ned Stark's bastard, I mean you can't introduce a character who will play a very big role in the books without knowing his/her parentage, whether it's true or not. Jyana is most likely what she's listed. Sorry Authur and Ashara Dayne fans, they're dead.

[Jon Weirgaryen]

Robb is slightly older than Jon, and so is Meera. So she's not the right age to be Jon's twin.

This will sound extremely stupid from someone who's recently discovered his notes about Meera's age being wrong, but still:

Contrary to Catelyn's observation of Robb being the elder, Jon must near-certainly have been born before Robb:

A close look at the events during Robert's rebellion reveals the time between the Catelyn-Eddard wedding to the Sack of King's Landing is about 7 months at the most, but may be less. Jon is born within a fourtnight or a month give-or-take of the Sack.

The order of their namedays as they are occurring in the supposed chronological order in AGoT+ACoK is also contradicting Robb being older than Jon, @Rhaenys_Targaryen has worked out.

I'll see if I can confirm that one with chapters and verses.

ETA for proof:

Robb is 14. The quote

yet not one was half the fighter Robb had been at fourteen.

AGoT C 19 Jon III p177

... looks so much past tense that we must take it he no longer is. But he is still 14 as you will soon see. Here is Jon thinking:

I'll be fifteen on my next name day.

followed by

His name day had come and gone, unremarked, a fortnight past.

Jon turns 15 in AGoT C 19 Jon III p186

There is an SSM telling us Jon is 8 or 9 months older than Dany. Also in the book:

It was her fourteenth nameday.

AGoT C 23 Daenerys III p236

And quite a while later she turns 15, which is exactly one year later:

I have counted only fifteen namedays, true . . . but I am as old as the dosh khaleen and as young as my dragons. I have borne a child, burned a khal, crossed the red waste and the Dothraki sea.

ACoK C 27 Daenerys II p432

Next we are told that Robb is 15:

Robb had more wisdom at fifteen that this youth had ever learned.

ACoK C 31 Catelyn III p484

and he has been 15 for a while but not all year. Allthough it is past tense here, it has been all the time. (In Catelyn II Robb's age - 15 - was repeated no less than four times.)

[Ibbison from Ibben]

If you really take the "of the cranogmen" point that seriously theres certainly no use in debating you. That's like saying Jon has to be a bastard of the north because he s always refered to as Jon Snow

Telling a lie about Jon's paternity is easy to do effectively. Most who know the truth are dead, and those in the know are friends of Ned.

If Ashara Dayne were actually Howland's wife, spreading the lie that Jyana is "of the crannogmen" would be remarkably dumb. She doesn't look like a crannogman. To successfully hide her identity, he would have to come up with an explanation of who she was that would account for her non-crannogman features. Or he would have to keep her incredibly isolated, even by crannogman standards. I'm simply expecting that intelligent people would act in an intelligent manner.