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MadFish

Jyana Reed

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Does anyone else out there think this name is more than a coincidence? Jyana is basically Jon and Lyanna put together.


I know there are some theories that Jyana is Ashara Dayne, which I don't necessarily believe. But even if Jyana doesn't = Ashara, I think the name is very suspicious and that something weird is going on in the GW. I'm a first time poster, so take it easy on me if this has already been discussed!


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The name does seem to be a bit to much of a coincidence. Since I believe that Jyanna = Ashara Dayne it makes sense that she would choose such a cover name.


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I don't think Jyana could be named after Lyanna herself, since they would have to have been born around the same time. We don't know what house Jyana came from; all we know is that the aDwD appendix describes her as "...of the crannogmen". (I completely reject the Ashara Dayne hypothesis on that basis, not to mention others.)



Best guess - Lyanna may be a traditional Stark female name. Jyana's house may favor "J" names (like Jojen). So "J" + "yan(n)a" was given by Jyana's parents to honor their overlords, House Stark.


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I don't think Jyana could be named after Lyanna herself, since they would have to have been born around the same time. We don't know what house Jyana came from; all we know is that the aDwD appendix describes her as "...of the crannogmen". (I completely reject the Ashara Dayne hypothesis on that basis, not to mention others.)

:shocked: Because GRRM would certainly spoil a major plot bomb by adding Jyanna "...of Starfall" to the appendix...

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I just think between the weird Jyana name and Howland's connection to Lyanna's story (him being at the Tourney at Harrenhal for the Knight of the Laughing Tree story, Tower of Joy and seeing Jon's birth) that the name can't be a coincidence. It gives me the feeling that Jyana is someone in hiding.


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:shocked: Because GRRM would certainly spoil a major plot bomb by adding Jyanna "...of Starfall" to the appendix...

There were people who said that Jon is not Lyanna's because Ned never thought him as his nephew.

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:shocked: Because GRRM would certainly spoil a major plot bomb by adding Jyanna "...of Starfall" to the appendix...

"Of the crannogmen" has to mean a native of the neck. That's where crannogmen come from.

Ashara Dayne was not a crannogman, and cannot be "of the crannogmen". Unless you would like to claim the appendix was written by an unreliable narrator, Ashara Dayne cannot be Jyana. That particular hypothesis is not crackpot, it is refuted (if the appendix is reliable).

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"Of the crannogmen" has to mean a native of the neck. That's where crannogmen come from.

Ashara Dayne was not a crannogman, and cannot be "of the crannogmen". Unless you would like to claim the appendix was written by an unreliable narrator, Ashara Dayne cannot be Jyana. That particular hypothesis is not crackpot, it is refuted (if the appendix is reliable).

The appendix does list Jon as Robb's half-brother.

—RICKON, a boy of four, believed dead,

—SHAGGYDOG, his direwolf, black and savage,

—Rickon’s companion, OSHA, a wildling once captive at Winterfell,

—his bastard half brother, JON SNOW, of the Night’s Watch,

—GHOST, Jon’s direwolf, white and silent,

So I guess R+L=J is refuted...

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The appendix does list Jon as Robb's half-brother.

So I guess R+L=J is refuted...

Yeah I agree, I don't think you can use the appendix as a source when trying to guess someone's secret identity. GRRM wouldn't give any hints in the index of an earlier book when he plans on revealing the secret in later books.

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The name does seem to be a bit to much of a coincidence. Since I believe that Jyanna = Ashara Dayne it makes sense that she would choose such a cover name.

I believe Ashara to be death but if she is alive, the "Jyanna theory" is by far the best I read so far. That said, I am still far from being sold on "Ashara Dayne = Howland Reed's wife" theory. It is logistically plausible and we know that those two met and Howland has been paying attention to her during the Harrenhal tourney but I don't see how that fits into the R+L=J story.

Why would Ashara need to fake her death and assume a new identity if she wanted to marry Howland? Because her parents wouldn't allow the match? They were probably hoping to marry Ashara up since she was a renowned beauty but once she was dishonoured (whether by Brandon or Howland), her options became limited. Howland was a lord (or an heir to lordship) so Ashara would be a lady and would be with the man she loves (the Daynes seem to be nice enough people that they might actually care about the happiness of their daughter). And even if she was forbidden from marrying Reed, why not just elope? Faking death and changing her identity is far too drastic and quite cruel to her family considering her brother was just killed.

But how would Ashara's "suicide" and her subsequent marriage to Howland help Jon? Why was it necessary in order to keep Jon's parentage a secret? As far as we know Lyanna was naught to Ashara. Ashara was Elia's lady in waiting so her loyalties/sympathies would likely be with Rhaegar's first wife.

I am asking out of curiosity. The theory intrigues me and I would like to know more.

P.S. Jyanna doesn't sound any weirder than Jojen to me.

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The appendix does list Jon as Robb's half-brother.

So I guess R+L=J is refuted...

Yeah I agree, I don't think you can use the appendix as a source when trying to guess someone's secret identity. GRRM wouldn't give any hints in the index of an earlier book when he plans on revealing the secret in later books.

The appendices represent the common knowledge of Westeros; basically, what the Citadel believes. Ned is able to fool Westeros, and has a strong motivation to do so. We have actual evidence that he engaged in the deception. There's no reason for anyone to spread a lie to conceal a marriage between Howland and Ashara, and there's no evidence anyone did.

Why would Ashara need to fake her death and assume a new identity if she wanted to marry Howland? Because her parents wouldn't allow the match? They were probably hoping to marry Ashara up since she was a renowned beauty but once she was dishonoured (whether by Brandon or Howland), her options became limited. Howland was a lord (or an heir to lordship) so Ashara would be a lady and would be with the man she loves (the Daynes seem to be nice enough people that they might actually care about the happiness of their daughter). And even if she was forbidden from marrying Reed, why not just elope? Faking death and changing her identity is far too drastic and quite cruel to her family considering her brother was just killed.

Exactly. In addition, "of the crannogmen" also likely refers to body type. In other words, It's a racial reference. The person who wrote the entry had information that Jyana had the distinctive small stature unique to the Crannogmen. You can't cover that up with a lie. Meera and Jojen's appearance also support the claim that Jyana was a Crannogman. Crannogwoman. Crannogmama.

The conventional understanding of Ashara's fate (dishonored by Brandon, committed suicide after her brother's death) makes sense. Without actual evidence to the contrary, it should be accepted. The Ashara-Howland hypothesis doesn't add anything to the story but unnecessary complications. It doesn't solve any mysteries. It doesn't create a basis for important political developments. (Dorne and the Crannogmen won't form an alliance because of the marriage.) It won't be the key to defeating the Others. If it were true, and were revealed to the people of Westeros, the typical reaction would be, "Oh. That's nice." It is simply not important enough to go through all the trouble for. It just provides an excuse to think Ashara is still alive, and that is the hypothesis' sole value. Although it might be nice if she was still alive, there's no reason to use an unsupported and convoluted tale to provide her with plot armor.

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I am asking out of curiosity. The theory intrigues me and I would like to know more.

P.S. Jyanna doesn't sound any weirder than Jojen to me.

It's pretty simple. When Jon was born, Ned couldn't possibly now that Jon would not develop Targaryen looks. If Jon had displayed Targaryen looks when he grew up, Ned had to have an explanation for that. The Daynes are First Men, but they have Valyrian colouring (Ashara had violet eyes, Arthur had silver hair and violet eyes). And thus Ashare could pass as Jon's mother.

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It's pretty simple. When Jon was born, Ned couldn't possibly now that Jon would not develop Targaryen looks. If Jon had displayed Targaryen looks when he grew up, Ned had to have an explanation for that. The Daynes are First Men, but they have Valyrian colouring (Ashara had violet eyes, Arthur had silver hair and violet eyes). And thus Ashare could pass as Jon's mother.

Ashara doesn't have to die in order to be a "decoy mother" for Jon. The rumour about Ashara and Ned existed since Harrenhal and can keep on living alongside Ashara. And when Ned comes to Winterfell with a Targ looking kid that he claims to be his, people will wonder who the mother was but nobody will question the father's identity. Usually it is the other way around. Lords refuse to claim their own bastards even if they look exactly like them so if Ned acknowledges his baseborn son and even raises him as his own, no one will suspect that Jon is not his. They would probably think that Ned must have loved Jon's mother very much, which would further make them believe that the mother must have been Ashara. Anyhow, most people have other thinks to worry about than figuring out whom Ned banged during the rebellion.

Besides, why would Ashara give up her life at Starfall and her family for Jon/Ned/Lyanna? And if she did, shouldn't Ned at least had the decency to actually use her as a decoy, instead of dismissing all the rumours surrounding her?

As Ibbison from Ibben says the Ashara/Jyanna theory does not add any light or solution into the story.

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