If Quentyn is alive, what will he do in the WoW?

[Stark@heart]

I guess it's just me then but I do honestly think Quenten survived.

I think he got hit by the dragonfire the same way Dany has. It burned his cloths & hair but not his flesh - though he may have gotten burned by the clothing/fabric sticking to him - hence the one dornish companion having burned hands from trying to beat the flames out and/or remove his burning cloths.

So, R sends some flames at Q and Q stands his ground & brings out the whip. Everyone else is in terror but his companions, who help him but then get the hell out of the way when R decides it's time to fly. Q flys off on the back of a dragon, the Windblown have scattered & the 2 Dornish men are left to answer for the fiasco. Better to say the dragon(s) flew off on their own & Quent is lying here burnt & dying than to admit Quent did manage to hop a ride but Tatters wasn't so lucky. Cause at this point, they have no idea what happened next & Quent could be dead (from falling, as everyone says Dany is) but maybe, just maybe he's found himself stranded atop the pyramind R likes so well. Like Dany on her rock.

We'll know for sure the next time we see the Dorns. I'm betting once Barristan cuts them loose they'll head straight for Rhaegal's lair.

[GrumpkinsAndStarks]

Die.

[Stark@heart]

Opps, I did go off topic with my reply somewhat.

Quenten will half ass manage to ride out on Rhagal during the battle that's just started in Barristan's last chapter. I doubt he'll have much control. Like Dany, he will be more at the mercy of the dragon than it's master but he & the dragon will help save Dany's city.

One big reason I keep believing Quenten Lives!! is because I just can't see Victorion getting a buy one (bind one,lol) get one free deal on dragons. There's only 3 (that we know of right??)

Dany & Drogon are far away & Drogon has a rider. I think that is important. I think a dragon only having the one rider clause applied even in the case of the Magical Dragon Binding Horn.

So Vicky has the Horn blown & gets 2 dragons???

No way GRRMs letting'em go that easy but the plot problem remains. How to get the Dragons somewhat controlled & on to Westeros in our lifetimes,lol and within 2 more books? Enter magic horn that binds dragons... but 1 Horn = 1 Dragon, or so I'm guessing.

So, in my crazy theories, Quenten lives!! so that Rhagel has a rider/bond and cannot be summoned by the Horn.

I will digress again and say that I think the way that Victorion is using "trickery" ie 3 different people to blow the horn, to do the binding will result in a very weak spell/bond - which can be broken later on by someone with Dragon blood or a Warg / Skinchanger. :drool:

[gogorath]

Hey everyone, first time posting.

Ok, I was a little annoyed at Quentyn's death in book 5 so i subscribe to the theory that he will somehow come back. Either via body switch or resurection by a red Priest, probably Moqorro. This is mostly because I would like to believe George was not wasting 200 pages on a character that was just going to burn to death, even if it will likely cause Dorne to stop backing Dany.

But does anyone have ideas as to what kind of role Quentyn would have if he survived?

He's dead. He's there as an object lesson to everyone who cheered at "Vengeance. Fire and Blood." You reap what you sow.

[Nashman1]

I loved reading the 17 page or so thread debating whether Quentyn was dead or if it was actually the Tattered Prince. Rereading his final chapter and the following one where Missandei takes care of him it is suspiciously vague enough to really leave doubt that Tatters may have been the one burned "beyond recognition." The simple breakdown is this: Tatters insists in watching over the kidnapping of a dragon, tags along and when the dragons freak out and a body is burned and a dragon disappears they give the dying body of Tatters as the scapegoat. Quentyn is off with a dragon, free of the Windblown sellswords and (most) danger. Barristan even comments that Quentyns men seem to know something they're not saying when he employs them to go talk to Tatters.

In otherwords, I want Quentyn to be alive and I see a reasonable 'out' for GRRM to bring him back.

Here is what I can see in his future:

~Daenerys and him don't really fit. He's a plain boy with no real oomph to his persona. He's the natural underdog who is driving on pure determination. Daenarys is kind of a bad ass who wins wars by deceit and treachery, sleeps with killers, gives birth to dragons, and falls headlong into one emotional travesty after another. However, as a dragon-rider he doesn't have to be Daenarys mate, just a partner.

~Lots of theories were out about who the "Three-heads of the dragon" are. Quentyn was a popular choice. Many thought the house colors matched up with the dragon colors as a sign of foreshadowing. Martell is red and gold on an orange field and Rhaegal was Gold and creme. Similar. There is alot more arguments for it him, just saying he was a popular choice.

~There was also a thread about how SoIaF was originally supposed to be a 3 books series with Daenarys returning mid second book. Now it's a 7 book series and she still hasn't returned so its looking like it'll be a 10-12 book series. Who knows. My point is the theory is the dragons will be grown and have their riders prior to returning to Westeros, so on the timeline riders will start being revealed shortly. Quentyn being alive and having tamed Rhaegal would be both surprising and convenient. (On a side note, I think Tyrion will be a dragon rider and that's why the story moved to putting him and Daenarys closer to accomplish the third rider so Daenarys can move towards westeros).

~There are very few people in the book worthy of being king, but I think the summation of the whole series will be Westeros uniting under a king to defeat the white walkers. This means all the great houses working together and following one person who can put an end to the family squabbling and unite everyone. Towards that, I'm looking for... peace keepers? People who can go above the petty things for the common good. I think Quentyn will be one for the South of Westeros, Tyrion for the middle, and Jon (possibly?) or even Rickon for the North. This theory kind of leaves out the Tyrell's and Iron Islands, but we see a few amongst them who have reason enough, like Asha. Daenary's would represent the Targaryens. I have my reasons for thinking she won't ever be Queen. We've seen many kings in these books and almost all were flawed in some way, most by being too cruel. I think Daenarys is there to represent the opposite; being too caring. She get's emotionally involved and waylays her army to help people who will die anyway. She's the type of person who can't cutoff a finger to save the arm. That was a tangent, but I think the dragons and their riders in the end will be spread across the empire after being used to combat the walkers.

[Skinchanging Sweetrobin]

The entire book series might as well be called "Bait and Switch" or "Mistaken Identity."

Whether its switching babies, or switching brides, or switching fathers, or switching sides, or switching Reeks, or switching faces, nothing is ever certain.

And considering we already have as least three burning switches:

Mance and Rattleshirt

The Horn of Joramun and the Giant's Horn

Bran/Rickon and the Miller's sons

I would say it's possible that Quentyn is alive. Though there isn't too much evidence one way or the other, I will say that his "death" is weird and suspicious:

Quentyn turned and threw his left arm across his face to shield his eyes from the furnace wind. Rhaegal, he reminded himself, the green one is Rhaegal. (The Dragontamer ADwD)

Wait a minute, he felt the heat and then put his arm up? Should he already be blinded?

If a dragon flame is coming at you, the eyes are the first things to go:

A lance of swirling dark flame took Kraznys full in the face. His eyes melted and ran down his cheeks, and the oil in his hair and beard burst so fiercely into fire that for an instant the slaver wore a burning crown twice as tall as his head. The sudden stench of charred meat overwhelmed even his perfume, and his wail seemed to drown all other sound. (Daenarys III, ASoS)

Okay, maybe Quentyn saw the dragon about to shoot flames and put his arm up. Then why didn't he feel pain? Kraznys shrieks as loud as a man can from the pain. Keep in mind, it is not from the sight of burning that causes him to scream - his eyes are gone. He feels the pain and screams.

Quentyn doesn't feel the pain. He sees he is burning and then screams:

When he raised his whip, he saw tht the lash was burning. His hand as well. All of him, all of him was burning.

Oh, he thought. Then he began to scream.

Maybe GRRM is just trying to paint a weird and creepy scene, but let's think about that.

Fire and heat is raining down on Quentyn and he has the time to first see a whip burning, then his hand, then the rest of him, then to think "oh!"

What Quentyn should have been thinking: PAIN!!!!!!!!!!!!

[GrumpkinsAndStarks]

The entire book series might as well be called "Bait and Switch" or "Mistaken Identity."

Whether its switching babies, or switching brides, or switching fathers, or switching sides, or switching Reeks, or switching faces, nothing is ever certain.

And considering we already have as least three burning switches:

Mance and Rattleshirt

The Horn of Joramun and the Giant's Horn

Bran/Rickon and the Miller's sons

I would say it's possible that Quentyn is alive. Though there isn't too much evidence one way or the other, I will say that his "death" is weird and suspicious:

Quentyn turned and threw his left arm across his face to shield his eyes from the furnace wind. Rhaegal, he reminded himself, the green one is Rhaegal. (The Dragontamer ADwD)

Wait a minute, he felt the heat and then put his arm up? Should he already be blinded?

If a dragon flame is coming at you, the eyes are the first things to go:

A lance of swirling dark flame took Kraznys full in the face. His eyes melted and ran down his cheeks, and the oil in his hair and beard burst so fiercely into fire that for an instant the slaver wore a burning crown twice as tall as his head. The sudden stench of charred meat overwhelmed even his perfume, and his wail seemed to drown all other sound. (Daenarys III, ASoS)

Okay, maybe Quentyn saw the dragon about to shoot flames and put his arm up. Then why didn't he feel pain? Kraznys shrieks as loud as a man can from the pain. Keep in mind, it is not from the sight of burning that causes him to scream - his eyes are gone. He feels the pain and screams.

Quentyn doesn't feel the pain. He sees he is burning and then screams:

When he raised his whip, he saw tht the lash was burning. His hand as well. All of him, all of him was burning.

Oh, he thought. Then he began to scream.

Maybe GRRM is just trying to paint a weird and creepy scene, but let's think about that.

Fire and heat is raining down on Quentyn and he has the time to first see a whip burning, then his hand, then the rest of him, then to think "oh!"

What Quentyn should have been thinking: PAIN!!!!!!!!!!!!

I think Martin is illustrating from QMs POV a sensation we have all known. Time seems to slow down in times of peril. It is a human defense mechanism so split second decisions can me made. Anyone who has ever been seriously injured or even in a fist fight or car wreck can attest to that.

[Skinchanging Sweetrobin]

I think Martin is illustrating from QMs POV a sensation we have all known. Time seems to slow down in times of peril. It is a human defense mechanism so split second decisions can me made. Anyone who has ever been seriously injured or even in a fist fight or car wreck can attest to that.

Not that that is not possible, but I'm just saying it reads weird. The other deaths have:

1) A description of how the method of dying feels.

2) A memory that relates to the death

For example, let's compare with Catelyn's death (throat slit):

"Make an end," and a hand grabbed her scalp just as she'd done with Jinglebell, and she thought, No, don't, don't cut my hair, Ned loves my hair. Then the steel was at her throat, and its bite was red and cold.

Though metaphorical, Catelyn feels the pain of her death. Her throat slicing feels like a red and cold bite. And she remembers hair cuts and how much Ned loved her hair.

Now, let's look at Jon's death (stabbing):

Pain washed over him. Stick them with the pointy end, When the third dagger took him between the shoulder blades, he gave a grunt and fell face-first into the snow. He never felt the fourth knife. Only the cold.

So, Jon as well feels pain as he dies and it transitions into a feeling of cold. And he remembers his advice to Arya giving her Needle.

And we have Pate (poisoning):

He could feel his heart hammering in his chest. "What's happening?" he said. His legs had turned to water. "I don't understand."

"And you never will," a voice said sadly.

The cobblestones rushed up to kiss him. Pate tried to cry for help, but his voice was failing too.

His last thought was of Rosey.

Pate's heart races and he becomes intoxicated from the poison. And he remembers Rosey, who also made his heart race and made him feel intoxicated.

Quentyn feels nothing and remembers nothing. It's "oh."

It's not "the flame stung like a thousand Dornish summers. It was a crimson beast shredding his skin off to become a blizard of ash. He thought of his father's distant stare."

It's "oh."

[Net-Viper X]

Unless Emperor Palpatine shows up in time to stick Quentyn into a nice shiny Darth Vader outfit, I think its safe to say the son of Dorne has set for good.

[GrumpkinsAndStarks]

Not that that is not possible, but I'm just saying it reads weird. The other deaths have:

1) A description of how the method of dying feels.

2) A memory that relates to the death

For example, let's compare with Catelyn's death (throat slit):

"Make an end," and a hand grabbed her scalp just as she'd done with Jinglebell, and she thought, No, don't, don't cut my hair, Ned loves my hair. Then the steel was at her throat, and its bite was red and cold.

Though metaphorical, Catelyn feels the pain of her death. Her throat slicing feels like a red and cold bite. And she remembers hair cuts and how much Ned loved her hair.

Now, let's look at Jon's death (stabbing):

Pain washed over him. Stick them with the pointy end, When the third dagger took him between the shoulder blades, he gave a grunt and fell face-first into the snow. He never felt the fourth knife. Only the cold.

So, Jon as well feels pain as he dies and it transitions into a feeling of cold. And he remembers his advice to Arya giving her Needle.

And we have Pate (poisoning):

He could feel his heart hammering in his chest. "What's happening?" he said. His legs had turned to water. "I don't understand."

"And you never will," a voice said sadly.

The cobblestones rushed up to kiss him. Pate tried to cry for help, but his voice was failing too.

His last thought was of Rosey.

Pate's heart races and he becomes intoxicated from the poison. And he remembers Rosey, who also made his heart race and made him feel intoxicated.

Quentyn feels nothing and remembers nothing. It's "oh."

It's not "the flame stung like a thousand Dornish summers. It was a crimson beast shredding his skin off to become a blizard of ash. He thought of his father's distant stare."

It's "oh."

So few things are cut and dry in this series. The ambiguity is what makes it all so compelling. TBH, while reading the scene of, what I will call, QMs death I was actually affected by it. It was so sad to me, his whole experience in Mereen. Being so unimpressive and forgettable. He was so hopeful and certain his scheme would work that even as he is burning he doesn't quite understand what is happening . . . until the "Oh". That is the moment of realization. I am not a Dragon, I will not return Dorne to it's former Glory, I will not marry my Dragon Queen, I am dying. It was such a powerful scene that I would almost be disappointed if he were alive in "Winds". I agree though that there are details missing and much and more room for yet another bit of misdirection from GRRM.

[Skinchanging Sweetrobin]

So few things are cut and dry in this series. The ambiguity is what makes it all so compelling. TBH, while reading the scene of, what I will call, QMs death I was actually affected by it. It was so sad to me, his whole experience in Mereen. Being so unimpressive and forgettable. He was so hopeful and certain his scheme would work that even as he is burning he doesn't quite understand what is happening . . . until the "Oh". That is the moment of realization. I am not a Dragon, I will not return Dorne to it's former Glory, I will not marry my Dragon Queen, I am dying. It was such a powerful scene that I would almost be disappointed if he were alive in "Winds". I agree though that there are details missing and much and more room for yet another bit of misdirection from GRRM.

I totally agree. I loved Quentyn and there are so many mysteries about the guy.

His dad, Doran, is supposed to be a meticulous, cunning planner. Like Tywin level cunning. Yet, Quentyn is sent out completely unprepared surrounded by companions from a rival family.

It's like his dad wanted him to fail. Keep in mind, Quentyn was a ward with the Yronwood. If there is one thing the books has taught us, its warding and hostages don't work very well. Men just take them as a loss and do what they wanted to do anyway (i.e. Tywin with Jamie, Harpies with their sons, Balon and Theon, Robb with Sansa and Arya) . The women, on the other hand, do seem to care about their hostage kin and do crazy things for them (Asha with Theon, Cercei with Myrcella, Cat with Sansa and Arya).

Something is up with Doran's plan and his relationship with the Yronhood.

I don't actually think he'll return, but I do think the whole thing is fishy.

Also, why did it take Quentyn 3 days to die? Quentyn got hit close range by a dragon. Shouldn't he have exploded in flames like everyone else does?

[The Human Abstract]

Man.

You guys missed the point of the thread. It's not to debate whether Quentyn is alive. It's to debate what he does IF he is.

And anyway, OF COURSE he is. So I guess *really* the point is to debate what he does now. And I humbly suggest what he does now is: kick ass on the back of a dragon and chew bubble gum. If he's really adroit, perhaps both at the same time.

[Civfan]

So far, only one dead character has come back: Cat. Well, I suppose Mance too sort of. But, I don't think the chances of his return are great.

Also Davos, and there was a chapter that ended with a knife going to Ned's throat- I thought they killed him right there. Also the Jory death scene kind of cliffhangered Ned's fate, and then there was the scene where Arya gets hit in the head with an axe.

And we think Bran and Rickon are dead for a bit, right? and Theon, maybe.

Fake deaths happen as often as the real ones. And nobody is implying that there wasn't a person who burned up- we know that's a fact. The theory is that it was the Tattered Prince who died. When Barristan visits Quentyn's friends and asks what happened he says the prince is dead and they act weird about it, like they're hiding something, and none of them seem particularly sad except the one who's really good at lying.

http://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/topic/84669-quentyn-possibly-alive/

Anyway there's a thread I posted a while back with the /tv/ copypasta for anyone curious.

[Civfan]

Man.

You guys missed the point of the thread. It's not to debate whether Quentyn is alive. It's to debate what he does IF he is.

And anyway, OF COURSE he is. So I guess *really* the point is to debate what he does now. And I humbly suggest what he does now is: kick ass on the back of a dragon and chew bubble gum. If he's really adroit, perhaps both at the same time.

Yea I think he's hanging out with Viserion, waiting to see what happens. Eventually he'll go find Dany with the Khalasaar she's about to steal, and she'll see him all sexy on the dragon and swoon and beg him to marry her, and he'll be like "yea that ship has sailed sweetheart" and ride back to Dorne with sunglasses on.

[Skinchanging Sweetrobin]

Also Davos, and there was a chapter that ended with a knife going to Ned's throat- I thought they killed him right there. Also the Jory death scene kind of cliffhangered Ned's fate, and then there was the scene where Arya gets hit in the head with an axe.

And we think Bran and Rickon are dead for a bit, right? and Theon, maybe.

Fake deaths happen as often as the real ones. And nobody is implying that there wasn't a person who burned up- we know that's a fact. The theory is that it was the Tattered Prince who died. When Barristan visits Quentyn's friends and asks what happened he says the prince is dead and they act weird about it, like they're hiding something, and none of them seem particularly sad except the one who's really good at lying.

http://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/topic/84669-quentyn-possibly-alive/

Anyway there's a thread I posted a while back with the /tv/ copypasta for anyone curious.

Okay, I'm actually getting more on board with Q being alive.

I went back and read the 5 POV deaths we have: Will, Cat, Pate, Jon, Kevan and all of them really describe the act of dying. Q's is weird: no pain.

Also, I do find it odd that Q didn't explode like other dragon deaths and took three days to die.

But, really the thing that makes me think that Q is alive the most is that it screws up Doran's plans. And no plan in these books ever goes according to plan.

I also find it wonderfully ironic that Doran's beloved daughter was supposed to be paired with a conquering Viserys, but, instead his rejected son gets paired with a conquering Viserion.

So, Doran clearly wanted Q to fail for some reason. He sends him off grossly unprepared and protected by only Martell rivals. It's a sacrifice. That last thing Doran will expect is Q to be successful.

Doran's plan? My guess is that Doran had backed Viserys. But, when Viserys died (or maybe before), Doran realized he needed to switch to Aegon, but didn't want the Yronwoods on the winning side with him. By sending Q off with the Yronwoods and dying, the Yronwoods would feel obligated to back Dany (or look like they back Dany). If Dany was the eventual loser (Doran's hope), the Yronwoods would fail with her.

Q coming home with a dragon or on Dany's side would throw a massive wrench in the plan.

Now Q is a good guy and unique. He loves the Martells AND the Yronwoods. He will try to united Dorne behind Dany, but I bet he will come too late. Arienne will likely already be married to Aegon and Aegon will have massive support (if we believe Dany's vision). Q will be faced with the horrible future of fighting against his own family. But what can he do? He's a dragonrider and with Dany. He'll have to take out his own family.

[Civfan]

So, Doran clearly wanted Q to fail for some reason. He sends him off grossly unprepared and protected by only Martell rivals. It's a sacrifice. That last thing Doran will expect is Q to be successful.

Doran's plan? My guess is that Doran had backed Viserys. But, when Viserys died (or maybe before), Doran realized he needed to switch to Aegon, but didn't want the Yronwoods on the winning side with him. By sending Q off with the Yronwoods and dying, the Yronwoods would feel obligated to back Dany (or look like they back Dany). If Dany was the eventual loser (Doran's hope), the Yronwoods would fail with her.

Q coming home with a dragon or on Dany's side would throw a massive wrench in the plan.

That's a good theory. Maybe he thought having both Quentyn and the Yronwood heir 'murdered' by Dany would unite Dorne stronger than the boys' friendship. It's sad to think he'd sacrifice them since the goal is to avenge his sister, but maybe he thought there was a chance he'd make it above all the others? Wanting him to fail is a real possibility in general, though.

[Skinchanging Sweetrobin]

That's a good theory. Maybe he thought having both Quentyn and the Yronwood heir 'murdered' by Dany would unite Dorne stronger than the boys' friendship. It's sad to think he'd sacrifice them since the goal is to avenge his sister, but maybe he thought there was a chance he'd make it above all the others? Wanting him to fail is a real possibility in general, though.

Doing something to unite the Martell and Yronwood houses is a possibility. And it would be a much more rational plan.

But, this is Westeros and people harbor unreasonable grudges. Every other kingdom has insane bitter and hatred between the leading house and the 2nd place house. Starks and Boltons, Tullys and Freys, Tyrells and Florents, Lannisters and the Reynes.

The Martells and the Yronwoods seems to be no different. They have a bad history: the Yronwoods backed the three Blackfyre rebellions and there was a duel between Oberyn and Edgar Yronwood that ended badly.

And while there's no direct evidence that Doran himself hates the Yronwoods, we do know that Doran originally planned for Quentyn to succeed him, but then switched to Arienne after he sent Quentyn to ward with the Yronwoods. Essentially, Quentyn's "Yronwoodifying" sullied him in the eyes of Doran.

It's really a quite sad story for Quentyn, which is why I really hope he's alive and successful. Doran seems to have abandoned his son and sent him off to die because he became too close with the rival family. It's a very similar story to Theon, really, except Quentyn was kind and not at all a dick.

[Red Raven]

Quentyn is dead.

Doran didn't send him off to die because he had been "Yronwooded."

Doran is genuinely concerned about him and in thinking about Quentyn wails, "Where is my son?"

[Universal Sword Donor]

Doing something to unite the Martell and Yronwood houses is a possibility. And it would be a much more rational plan.

But, this is Westeros and people harbor unreasonable grudges. Every other kingdom has insane bitter and hatred between the leading house and the 2nd place house. Starks and Boltons, Tullys and Freys, Tyrells and Florents, Lannisters and the Reynes.

The Martells and the Yronwoods seems to be no different. They have a bad history: the Yronwoods backed the three Blackfyre rebellions and there was a duel between Oberyn and Edgar Yronwood that ended badly.

And while there's no direct evidence that Doran himself hates the Yronwoods, we do know that Doran originally planned for Quentyn to succeed him, but then switched to Arienne after he sent Quentyn to ward with the Yronwoods. Essentially, Quentyn's "Yronwoodifying" sullied him in the eyes of Doran.

It's really a quite sad story for Quentyn, which is why I really hope he's alive and successful. Doran seems to have abandoned his son and sent him off to die because he became too close with the rival family. It's a very similar story to Theon, really, except Quentyn was kind and not at all a dick.

He let the Yronwoods foster his son as the blood price. That didn't sully him in the least. Did you even read those chapters at all? Quentyn was supposed to inherit Dorne beause Arianne was going to be wed to Viserys and unable to rule Dorne. That changed when Viserys died.

[gamegeknee]

I'm as positive as I can be that Quentyn is dead, However, I do not think his usefulness is over.

I think once Tyrion is in Dany's camp and learns about the Dornish proposal he will want to go along with it to gain support of Dorne. If they can manage to cover up Quentyn's death so it doesn't reach Doran, they can send a message that Dany accepts the marriage proposal.

Obviously this could cause major problems, but if it works long enough for Dorne to pave the way for Dany's arrival in Westeros it could totally work. Seems like the type of plan Tyrion would come up with, and I think Ser Barristan will back the idea as well.