"Everyone" is a Targ... but not a secret one

[Annara Snow]

No, this is not another thread about the "secret Targaryens" crackpot theories.

Instead, I just want to discuss the fact that's rarely brought up, namely, that there is a whole bunch of characters in ASOAIF that are or were still alive in AGOT and later, who definitely have some Targaryen "blood" in them, and it's not a secret, but a widely known fact or official truth.

Early on in AGOT, GRRM introduced the idea of the Targaryens as being almost extinct and of Dany (and Viserys, while he was still alive) as the "last Targaryens". This is (mostly) true only if we uphold the patrilineal views that only the male line and the "trueborn" children are the "true" Targaryens. (This is, however, contradictory with the fact that Dany's unborn child was seen as a future Targaryen/"dragon" and a possible king - unless one justifies it with the argument that he wouldn't have had another last name but Targaryen, since Dothraki khals do not have last names.)

Now, I believe that upbringing is what determines one's belonging to a family more than one's DNA, so one can say that, e.g. the Baratheons are clearly not Targs since they don't see themselves as such; however, the popular idea of the Targaryens is that they are special and "magical" because of their blood, rather than just their last name, or their upbringing. To which extent this idea is justified is debatable, but it's still widely held.

And here's where I think "Hmmm..." Because, the more of the series you read, the more you realize that there must be lots of still living people who have some of that Targ blood. Maybe just as much as Dany, Viserys, or Jon (if R+L=J, which I believe 100%), if you take into account the fact that several generations of Targ men in the period just before Aerys and Rhaella were marrying women outside their immediate Targ family, and there were other Targaryen kings before who took Westerosi noblewomen for wives (Arryns, Hightowers, Martells, among others).

So, let's try to make a list of all official Targaryens in the books, during the main ASOAIF timelines; I will leave out every theory, even R+L=J, which I consider pretty much confirmed for all intents and purposes, that includes knowledge unavailable to the majority of people in Westeros, and stick to the facts that everyone in the universe is or can be aware of, if they know the Targ history.

* - deceased at some point during the story

Confirmed Targs:

• Maester Aemon (Targaryen) *
  
• Viserys Targeryen *
  
• Daenerys Targaryen
  
• (her unborn child Rhaego) *
  

These are all the official Targs from the main Targ line; young Griff claims to be Aegon Targaryen, but it's doubtful.

Next up we have:

• Brynden "Bloodraven" Rivers (granted, few people are aware of him still being around)
  

The Baratheons (King Robert's grandmother was the daughter of Aegon V aka Egg; in addition, the entire dynasty originates from Orys Baratheon, the bastard half-brother of Aegon the Conqueror)

• Robert Baratheon *
  
• Stannis Baratheon
  
• Renly Baratheon *
  
• Shireen Baratheon
  
• Mya Stone
  
• Gendry
  
• Edric Storm
  
• baby Barra *
  
• 12 other bastard children by Robert, now dead *
  

The Martells (descended from Daenerys, the daughter of Aegon the Unworthy and Naerys and sister of Daeron the Good)

• Doran Martell
  
• Oberyn Martell *
  
• Mors Martell * (died in infancy)
  
• Olyvar Martell * (died in infancy)
  
• Arianne Martell
  
• Quentyn Martell *
  
• Trystane Martell
  
• Obara Sand
  
• Nymeria Sand
  
• Tyene Sand
  
• Sarella Sand
  
• Elia Sand
  
• Obella Sand
  
• Dorea Sand
  
• Lorezza Sand
  

The Arryns (a marriage of a Targaryen woman to an Arryn male from the main branch of the house was confirmed in tPatQ, where Rhaenyra - who had an Arryn mother - was considered to have more Targaryen blood in her than her half-brother Aegon, who had a Hightower mother):

• Jon Arryn *
  
• Robert Arryn "Sweetrobin"
  
• Harrold Hardying, "Harry the Heir"
  
• Harry's bastard daughter
  

The Blackfyres (descendants of Daemon I Blackfyre, legitimized bastard of Aegon IV the Unworthy) - extinct in the male line, but the wording suggests that the female line is not extinct.

The Plumms - descendants of Ossifer Plumm and an Targaryen princess.

• Philip Plumm, current Lord, has three sons:
  
• Dennis Plumm
  
• Peter Plumm
  
• Harwyn "Hardstone" Plumm
  
• "Brown" Ben Plumm - their distant relative
  

Probable or possible Targaryens:

• "Aegon"/Young Griff - claims to be the son of prince Rhaegar Targaryen, more likely to be a descendant of the house Blackfyre
  
• Bella - possibly a bastard of Robert Baratheon (unconfirmed)
  
• any of the descendants of the many known bastards of Aegon IV the Unworthy; he sowed his seed all across Westeros, it's hard to believe that they're all extinct
  
• any of the descendants of the other known Targ bastards; according to the maester-narrator of tPatQ, there were quite a few "dragonseeds" in Dragonstone
  
• anyone who's descended from the side branches, female descendants and known bastards of the house Baratheon
  
• anyone who's descended from the side branches or known bastards of the house Martell
  
• some of the Vale clansmen, if the story of the Arryn girls who were kidnapped by them is true and if they survived and gave birth to children of the clansmen
  
• also, any known bastards Arryn lords may have had over the last couple of centuries
  
• descendants of other Targ women who did not marry their brothers or uncles
  

The Velaryons: they intermarried with the Targaryens a lot, surely some of them are likely Targ descendants? Including:

• Monford Velaryon *
  
• Monterys Velaryon
  
• Aurane Waters, the Bastard of Driftmark
  

The Starks: possibility based on Ned's remark that Robert had a "stronger claim" than him to the IT, which would suggest that Ned had some sort of a claim, only weaker; it has been speculated that a Targaryen may have married a Stark lord in the early days after the conquest. If true, it would include:

• Ned Stark *
  
• Benjen Stark (missing, possible dead)
  
• Robb Stark *
  
• Sansa Stark
  
• Arya Stark
  
• Bran Stark
  
• Rickon Stark
  
• Jon Snow (living/dead status unconfirmed)
  

It was just fitting to end the list with Jon. :)

Did I leave anyone out?

In any case, there are a lot of Targs running around Westeros and Essos, and it's not even a mystery to the people in-universe!

ETA: added the Plumms (thanks, Bright Blue Eyes!) and Bella (thanks, Iona!). Added Aurane Waters.

[Iona]

Wasn't there one more bastard of Robert's alive, that girl at the Peach, Bella? The one who came close to "going all Targy" with Gendry. At least I think she's still alive...

[Lord Thornhart]

I think the Westerlings were married into the Targaryens during the House's glory days.

[Dorian Martell]

With Prima Nocta, there are a lot of targs in westeros

[sleath56]

Give or take the 300 years they have in power, I wouldn't be surprised if all of the noble houses would have Targaryen blood.

There is also the Dragonseed children. Countless lowborn peasants are descended from these, I would believe.

I wouldn't be surprised if everyone in KL is a distant Targ.

[Bright Blue Eyes]

You have forgotten Lord Plumm and his family. House Hightower, Willas, Garlan, Loras and Margery Tyrell, Aurane Waters and everybody else those families married into during the last ~250 years. I'm pretty sure that Tywin Lannister had secondhand dragon blood, thanks to a Plumm bride a generation or three ago.

We are talking about several milions of descendants.

I think the Westerlings were married into the Targaryens during the House's glory days.

To Maegor to be exact, no issue though.

[Mrs. Tyrion Lannister]

Rennifer Longwaters, the undergaoler at the Red Keep. Descended from Elaena Targaryen and a Velaryon (bastard line).

[Jairion Lannister]

Good thread. It helps to widen the whole prophecy about the PTWP being of the Targaryen line. That could be widened if it refers to anyone of Targaryen blood.

Any direct Lannister connections there at all?

[Aslerys]

The Black Pearl of Braavos, is a descendant of Aegon IV. :)

[Lady Howell]

Well this is a huge take-that to Targ worshipers. Seems half of Westeros has the precious, obnoxious, incestuous, madness-tainted "Blood of the Dragon".

[Dragon Roast]

And let's not forget the Dragonseeds.

We learned about Dragonseeds in The Princess and the Queen,. Originally the term was used for children conceived when the early Targaryen rulers took advantage of the the old First Night laws on Dragonstone and Driftmark. Later, it seemed that the term could be applied to any bastard born as a result of a Targaryen mating with somebody outside of the family. According to all the books this happened quite a lot and many Targaryens seem to really enjoy their sex in and out of officially sanctioned relationships.

When there were dragons, it mattered if you were a Dragonseed as you might be able to be a dragon rider, but once the dragons died, these folks were just Targ bastards. Each of them passing along the Targaryen blood to the descendants. Logically, there would be a lot of folks with Targ blood who wouldn't ever know that it was so. Dragonseeds might matter a great deal in the final two books.

I think the world has many and more Dragonseeds, but not that many secret Targs. More than blood is needed for the latter. To be a Secret Targ, I think one or both parents needed to be Targaryens from a recognized royal family branch and that there is someway to reveal that hidden parentage in the coming books.

[jet199]

Aegon the unworthy probably had hundreds of bastards. Everyone's a secret Targ.

[yolkboy]

Melisandre seems like the perfect blend of Bloodraven and Shiera Seastar.

Mel's skin, eyes, height, figure, face, breasts, beauty, elegance, even apparel can all be attributed to the pair.

see here for full evidence....

http://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/topic/96824-sbm-mel-the-red-star-bleeding-melony-seastar-part-2-has-been-added-on-pg9/

[Annara Snow]

You have forgotten Lord Plumm and his family. House Hightower, Willas, Garlan, Loras and Margery Tyrell, Aurane Waters and everybody else those families married into during the last ~250 years. I'm pretty sure that Tywin Lannister had secondhand dragon blood, thanks to a Plumm bride a generation or three ago.

We are talking about several milions of descendants.

To Maegor to be exact, no issue though.

I don't think that any Targaryen women married a Hightower though, as far as we know, only the other way round? I don't remember any Tyrell connections to the Targs?

You're right that I forgot about the current Plumms. I don't remember the Lannister connection either, I'll have to check the family tree.

Aurane Waters is a Velaryon bastard. I don't know if it's 100% confirmed that the current Velaryons are descended from the Targs, though it would be surprising if they weren't, what with their close ties and often marriages with the Targs?

[Dead Wolf]

How dare you! You left out Rennifer Longwaters! He will one day sit the IT and rule all of Westeros

[Aerys Ahai Reborn]

Here is a really good tree, those not shaded in are still alive (we discussed the Velaryons but they are not included as there is no proof the Targs married into them to produce their current line)

[assjfjgjsgjljljglgjfjsduar]

This is precisely why I think magical dragon blood or dragon affinity or whatever is ultimately going to be meaningless. So many people in Westeros at this point have Targaryen blood that any "advantage" one can gain from having it it all but eliminated.

And as we saw in TPatQ, having Targ blood doesn't make you a dragonrider, and it's possible to be a dragonrider even if you don't have Targaryen blood, which I highly, highly doubt Nettles actually did.

[Bright Blue Eyes]

I don't think that any Targaryen women married a Hightower though, as far as we know, only the other way round? I don't remember any Tyrell connections to the Targs?

You're right that I forgot about the current Plumms. I don't remember the Lannister connection either, I'll have to check the family tree.

Aurane Waters is a Velaryon bastard. I don't know if it's 100% confirmed that the current Velaryons are descended from the Targs, though it would be surprising if they weren't, what with their close ties and often marriages with the Targs?

As far as I know, Hellicent Hightower was a distant relative of her husband, chosen to preserve the bloodline. One of Aegon's daughters or granddaughters most likely married into House Hightower.

And thanks to Mace Tyrell marrying a Hightower, his children got the same connection.

It isn't confirmed that the Lannisters married a Plumm bride with dragonblood. But there were 3-4 generations between Viserys Plumm and Tywin Lannister. The Plumms are one of the 10-20 noble Houses in the Westerlands. Even if the Lannisters didn't immediately jump on the chance to get some dragonblood, they most likely married a daughter, granddaughter, great-granddaughter or great-great-granddaughter of Viserys. Maybe with a Crakehall or a Reyne bride in between, but a descendant of Viserys Plumm nevertheless.

[Annara Snow]

As far as I know, Hellicent Hightower was a distant relative of her husband, chosen to preserve the bloodline. One of Aegon's daughters or granddaughters most likely married into House Hightower.

And thanks to Mace Tyrell marrying a Hightower, his children got the same connection.

What is your source for Alicent being a distant Targ relative? I don't think it's mentioned in tPatQ, all it says is that Rhaenyra had more Targ blood than Aegon; that's why I thought Arryns had Targ blood, and that the Hightowers did not. If the Hightowers had Targ blood too, it gets a bit complicated, the marriage would presumably have to have happened a generation or two before the Arryn marriage.

[Bright Blue Eyes]

What is your source for Alicent being a distant Targ relative? I don't think it's mentioned in tPatQ, all it says is that Rhaenyra had more Targ blood than Aegon; that's why I thought Arryns had Targ blood, and that the Hightowers did not. If the Hightowers had Targ blood too, it gets a bit complicated, the marriage would presumably have to have happened a generation or two before the Arryn marriage.

Please don't ask me, it's been ages since I last checked it. Just something unrelated I kept in the back of my head. Should be somewhere in the main series. Might be a Cat chapter. Probably in Game or early Clash. Bad answer, I know, but the best bet I can offer.