Rickon's Role

[bemused]

I just saw this pointed out on another thread somewhere, and I think it's very apros pos.. Rickon named his wolf Shaggy Dog .. and Rickon himself is probably a red herring spun out to the proportions of a "shaggy dog story" .. that's one featuring a lot of elaborate detail that leads to nothing in the end.

[Robinvanpersie]

I think the original plan was to have Rickon age up five years in each of the books. So by the end of it, he will be a grizzled old warrior like the Ned, full of honor and wisdom at teh folly of man in the face of winter. He would be the last Stark standing, and a bastion of strength and Starkedness to the world and fight the Others in a final pitched battle in Winterfell. All the old characters from the first books will have died (Jon Snow dying a particularly gruesome death involving two tavern wenches and a broomstick)_ except old Nan and Hodor, and they will bear witness to the returning LAST HERO.

[Daenerys Flint]

In GRRM's 3 pages to the publisher about his plans for the story - it seems like Rickon was never intended to survive to the end. So my money is on him reclaiming Winterfell but there being some confusion around what's going on .. maybe Stannis dies or Mel does another of her useless fire-reading predictions ... but whatever happens, the story that reaches the Wall is a confused one... and Jon will march south to reclaim Winterfell thinking that this is another Arya situation... where he doesn't believe it is really Rickon and we end up with a White v's Black Wolf scenario... and Jon (not directly - as with Ygritte) kills Rickon...

it's the old fable - "the boy who cried wolf"

First Arya... turns out to be Alys Karstark

then Arya again - turns out to be Jeyne Poole

Then Rickon - but Jon thinks its another fake story and attacks Winterfell... ends up killing his cousin...

[Hippocras]

In GRRM's 3 pages to the publisher about his plans for the story - it seems like Rickon was never intended to survive to the end. So my money is on him reclaiming Winterfell but there being some confusion around what's going on .. maybe Stannis dies or Mel does another of her useless fire-reading predictions ... but whatever happens, the story that reaches the Wall is a confused one... and Jon will march south to reclaim Winterfell thinking that this is another Arya situation... where he doesn't believe it is really Rickon and we end up with a White v's Black Wolf scenario... and Jon (not directly - as with Ygritte) kills Rickon...

it's the old fable - "the boy who cried wolf"

First Arya... turns out to be Alys Karstark

then Arya again - turns out to be Jeyne Poole

Then Rickon - but Jon thinks its another fake story and attacks Winterfell... ends up killing his cousin...

doubt this very much.

More likely that Rickon becomes the Stark that Stannis needs to become Lord of Winterfell. Jon is out of commission because he is badly injured or dealing with things North of the Wall.

But Stannis has enemies: The Boltons at least one of whom will likely survive the imminent fight at Winterfell; Euron as Stannis becomes closer to II rebels under Asha; Brienne and Loras who have personal vendettas against Stannis; and Littlefinger, who wants Winterfell for himself....ahem...Sansa. Rickon will die as a consequence of one or other of these conflicts.

[SevasTra82]

In GRRM's 3 pages to the publisher about his plans for the story - it seems like Rickon was never intended to survive to the end. So my money is on him reclaiming Winterfell but there being some confusion around what's going on .. maybe Stannis dies or Mel does another of her useless fire-reading predictions ... but whatever happens, the story that reaches the Wall is a confused one... and Jon will march south to reclaim Winterfell thinking that this is another Arya situation... where he doesn't believe it is really Rickon and we end up with a White v's Black Wolf scenario... and Jon (not directly - as with Ygritte) kills Rickon...

it's the old fable - "the boy who cried wolf"

First Arya... turns out to be Alys Karstark

then Arya again - turns out to be Jeyne Poole

Then Rickon - but Jon thinks its another fake story and attacks Winterfell... ends up killing his cousin...

Well, the puplisher letter doesn't even mention Rikon at all, so its possible he could of been added to the story after the letter was published. Rickon always seemed to be a throw-away character anyways, as he hasn't contributed a single thing to the story line, it's as if he's never existed.

Now, with Stannis sending Davos to find Rickon, it seems to be as if Stannis plans on using him as a pawn to "win back Winterfell". With Sansa "dissapearing", Arya's whereabouts unknown, and Bran thought to be dead, it's no wonder Stannis would want to recapture the (in his mind) last remaining Stark and use him as a pawn for his own ambitions.

Whether Rickon survives or not, who knows.

[Turin Stark]

I doubt Rickon remembers who Jon is. He's what? three? four? Kids forget people who aren't close often when they're that young.

Even if Jon is legitimised, he's going to favour Rickon no matter what. He loves his brothers and sisters that much.

All that matters is Ghost. Even though he might not remember Jon, Ghost will be the proof to Rickon that Jon is his half-brother.

[Lance Corporal Underpants]

Rickon always seemed to be a throw-away character anyways, as he hasn't contributed a single thing to the story line, it's as if he's never existed.

And here's the rub, methinks: Rickon has contributed nothing, and yet he exists and we are repeatedly reminded about his existence. His character obviously has a purpose, but that purpose is, as yet, unknown.

The five-year gap would have benefited younger characters the most, yes? So we get a more drawn out Arya narrative (which bugs me, as I want it to have more direction) and we have Rickon disappeared to Skagos. Rickon is important. We just don't quite know how.

[Lord of the Vale]

I don't know whether this has been a big talking point on the forum yet, but I just wanted to see what others think. A lot of posts I've read (from people here and there) seem to suggest Rickon will ride to Stannis' camp on the back of Shaggydog with Davos and an army of Skagosi behind him. (Well, maybe not so literally as that but y'know). If Rickon is to return, I don't see him having a lot of importance other than being guarded 24/7 as the Northerner's liege lord. The boy is just a child, he may have certain abilities like Bran but they aren't as developed, well I'm guessing so anyway.

What role do you think Rickon has to offer on his return?

He will be A rallyingpoint for the northmen as almost evry northeren Lord with the exeptions of boltons own bannermen and mabye the dustins and ryswells will abandon the boltons and join Stannis and Rickon

[Hippocras]

Rickon IS a shaggydog, story, but it is far more detailed and elaborate than just Rickon.

IMO the real shaggydog story is Aegon, and Rickon's wolf name is a hint that Rickon's role will be connected to that hidden Targ plot adventure, at least in terms of timing, if not loyalties.

[SevasTra82]

In GRRM's 3 pages to the publisher about his plans for the story - it seems like Rickon was never intended to survive to the end. So my money is on him reclaiming Winterfell but there being some confusion around what's going on .. maybe Stannis dies or Mel does another of her useless fire-reading predictions ... but whatever happens, the story that reaches the Wall is a confused one... and Jon will march south to reclaim Winterfell thinking that this is another Arya situation... where he doesn't believe it is really Rickon and we end up with a White v's Black Wolf scenario... and Jon (not directly - as with Ygritte) kills Rickon...

it's the old fable - "the boy who cried wolf"

First Arya... turns out to be Alys Karstark

then Arya again - turns out to be Jeyne Poole

Then Rickon - but Jon thinks its another fake story and attacks Winterfell... ends up killing his cousin...

In the original plotline, I don't believe Rickon even EXISTED, let alone not surviving. Every Stark kid was mentioned in those 3 pages except Rickon. So I think GRRM threw him in mid-stream, had no idea what to do with him, and shipped him off to Skagos for future relavence.

[Hippocras]

In the original plotline, I don't believe Rickon even EXISTED, let alone not surviving. Every Stark kid was mentioned in those 3 pages except Rickon. So I think GRRM threw him in mid-stream, had no idea what to do with him, and shipped him off to Skagos for future relavence.

If he didn't have a plan for him, he would not have bothered adding him.

IMO the decision to add Rickon was made at the same time he decided to do something like Aegon. He will be needed for the next phase of the story but is not a factor in the ending of the series.

[John Bonham]

It's very likely that Rickon's human body is dead and that he is living on as ShaggyDog.

Think about it: Bran probably would have had the same fate if he didn't have Jojen's training to reign him in.

It would have been easier to Rickon to survive the cold journey in his wolf-form, find food, etc. than as Rickon.

As we learned in ADWD, if a warg stays in animal form, they can lose their human self.

It's highly unlikely that Rickon is going to play any sort of political role as a Northman. When we see him again it will be as ShaggyDog the monster wolf.

[TheHeirToDorne]

It's very likely that Rickon's human body is dead and that he is living on as ShaggyDog.

Think about it: Bran probably would have had the same fate if he didn't have Jojen's training to reign him in.

It would have been easier to Rickon to survive the cold journey in his wolf-form, find food, etc. than as Rickon.

As we learned in ADWD, if a warg stays in animal form, they can lose their human self.

It's highly unlikely that Rickon is going to play any sort of political role as a Northman. When we see him again it will be as ShaggyDog the monster wolf.

I doubt the whole trip is a total red herring. And Osha's pretty badass, I wouldn't bet against her.

[mirthula]

Won't that be ironic for the youngest stark child to end up as lord of winterfell. Sounds like something GRRM would do.

Rob is dead, Jon is bound to Nights Watch even if he dies and is reborn I think his destiny is at the wall he won't leave all that to become lord of winterfell because he must realize that he is the hero of the nights watch and their path forward in the future, Arya is an assassin even if she gives up all that I don't think she can come back to play house she is too far gone in the warrior road, Sansa also might be bound to tyrion or some other fate of her chosing where she feels she can finally be at peace, the leaves rickon. I like rickon from what we have seen of him he is probably the most fierce of the stark kids. Yes the warging bit is worrisome but I think Osha might help him out there and control his powers, she is a wildling and is tough herself she won't let rickon lose himself. I just wish all the stark kids survives, ok robb is gone but the rest should considering the torment of their family.

[Luddagain]

GRRM is playing out a fairly typical Medieval story with particular relevance to Scotland. Death, destruction and murder were pretty typical. Rickon will serve as a rallying point for the North, led by Manderly. Rickon may well FIGHT Jon.

All I am sure of is that there will be a Stark on Stark war:

I have no idea who will be on what side, except that Jon will oppose Catelyn. My guess is Jon and Stannis versus Catelyn, Brynden Tully, and probably Sansa/LF. I think Rickon will go with Jon but there could be a third force ie Rickon/Manderly. Arya and Bran will stay out of it, but may prove peacemakers.

[SevasTra82]

GRRM is playing out a fairly typical Medieval story with particular relevance to Scotland. Death, destruction and murder were pretty typical. Rickon will serve as a rallying point for the North, led by Manderly. Rickon may well FIGHT Jon.

All I am sure of is that there will be a Stark on Stark war:

I have no idea who will be on what side, except that Jon will oppose Catelyn. My guess is Jon and Stannis versus Catelyn, Brynden Tully, and probably Sansa/LF. I think Rickon will go with Jon but there could be a third force ie Rickon/Manderly. Arya and Bran will stay out of it, but may prove peacemakers.

Rickon (story line time), is only 5 years old. He's not going to have very much influence himself outside of being a pawn for Stannis.

Catelyn is hell-bent on getting revenge on her dead kids and husband. I'm not exactly sure why you would think she would oppose Jon, considering he has the exact same agenda (hence why he got stabbed). Jon and Cat have a cold, rocky history, but I doubt (un)Cat looks at Jon and wants to kill him. She's more focused on taking care of the Boltons and Lannisters.

[Lord Damian]

Jon would never steal a rightful claim from Bran or Rickon. Now, kill the boy, become the man may change Jon. He may become different, for good or worse.

[John Bonham]

My money is on Sansa becoming the Lady of Winterfell.

[Liz Stark-Targaryen]

Won't that be ironic for the youngest stark child to end up as lord of winterfell. Sounds like something GRRM would do.

Exactly. My money's on the Stark lineage continuing through Rickon. That's literally his entire purpose in ASOIAF.

His older brothers and sisters become legends:

Robb, the Young Wolf

Sansa, the Lady of the Vale/Winterfell (or wherever she ends up)

Arya, Faceless (Wo)Man and a She-Wolf of Winterfell

Bran, the Greenseer

Jon, the Bastard of Winterfell, Lord Commander of the Night's Watch, etc.

Rickon's great-great-(infinity)-grandchildren will tell stories about the Stark children we've been following and are so invested in. But the Starks continue on in and through him.

[WhitewolfStark]

Exactly. My money's on the Stark lineage continuing through Rickon. That's literally his entire purpose in ASOIAF.

His older brothers and sisters become legends:

Robb, the Young Wolf

Sansa, the Lady of the Vale/Winterfell (or wherever she ends up)

Arya, Faceless (Wo)Man and a She-Wolf of Winterfell

Bran, the Greenseer

Jon, the Bastard of Winterfell, Lord Commander of the Night's Watch, etc.

Rickon's great-great-(infinity)-grandchildren will tell stories about the Stark children we've been following and are so invested in. But the Starks continue on in and through him.

I agree with this. All the other Stark siblings become legends, but don't continue the family line, which is reserved for Rickon. It's how it was for Ned's generation as well, if you recall the story of the Laughing Tree. All of Ned's siblings had much more of a presence and active role in the story (though the point could be debated if Ned was the Knight, but I'm not going to argue that here at this moment) than he did, but it's through Ned that the Stark line continues.

Likewise it won't be through legendary figures but the "forgot about that guy" kind of family relations that other major houses continue to live on--like Trystane Martell for example, I could even see Joy Hill being legitimized as a Lannister as a nice karmic "FU" to Tywin's memory (further irony, that it's through Gerion's bastard daughter that the Lannister line continues... that just feels like a nice karmic payoff to Tywin's attempts at making the Lannister image look unsullied)--though on Joy's part that's stretching things a little I'll admit.

But in general at the end of the books, all those characters who had a major presence in the story I doubt will be leaving behind children, but instead it'll be the family members who we half forgot about, or who were hardly mentioned at all, who continue the family lines, if they continue at all.