Antler's Fury Posted March 1, 2014 Share Posted March 1, 2014 Stannis had no castle taken away from him, in how until Stannis recieved Dragonstone he never held any castle. Robert cannot restore something to Stannis that was never Stannis's in the first place. Stannis held Storm's End in Robert's name, after which Robert took it from him and gave it to Renly, who subsequently held it in Robert's name. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Minsc Posted March 1, 2014 Share Posted March 1, 2014 Stannis held Storm's End in Robert's name, after which Robert took it from him and gave it to Renly, who subsequently held it in Robert's name. Renly held it in his own right, unlike Stannis. However, thanks for admitting that Stannis never actually held any right to Storm's End thus it couldn't have been taken from him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Antler's Fury Posted March 1, 2014 Share Posted March 1, 2014 Renly held it in his own right, unlike Stannis. However, thanks for admitting that Stannis never actually held any right to Storm's End thus it couldn't have been taken from him. Renly held it because Robert gave it to him, just as he had given it to Stannis to hold earlier. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lady Sharya Posted March 1, 2014 Share Posted March 1, 2014 No its not a strategy, I'm just simply acknowledging that the burden of quoting the text is on everybody but you apparentlyI'm think we're at an impass here, but I am going to try one last time to help you realize that asking me for textual evidence in this situation is not applicable: If I stated in a tread that Arryk & Erryk Redwyne were incestuous homosexual lovers, you could ask me for proof of that. I could not then turn around and ask you for proof that they are not. The burden of proof would be on me, not you. You could offer some counter to my claim (which I did) such as- Arryk was seen flirting with a girl, but you are not required to do so since you don't have to prove the absence of evidence of them being lovers. I can't insist you provide quotes from the book that prove they are not lovers if there are none. There are no quotes to prove Robert wouldn't have executed Stannis. I never stated that to be a fact. I simply asked for evidence for your claim that Robert WOULD have executed Stannis. The burden of proof is on you. Antler's Fury at least gave a reasonable explanation for why Stannis felt in danger. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Minsc Posted March 1, 2014 Share Posted March 1, 2014 Renly held it because Robert gave it to him, just as he had given it to Stannis to hold earlier. Stannis holding it was the equivalent of a castellan, while Renly held it in the position of Lord of the Castle. Thus, there is a wide difference between how the two held the castle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Antler's Fury Posted March 1, 2014 Share Posted March 1, 2014 Stannis holding it was the equivalent of a castellan, while Renly held it in the position of Lord of the Castle. Thus, there is a wide difference between how the two held the castle. It was still Stannis' more than it was Renly's. Stannis had a better right to it than Renly and Robert refused to respect that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Minsc Posted March 1, 2014 Share Posted March 1, 2014 It was still Stannis' more than it was Renly's. Stannis had a better right to it than Renly and Robert refused to respect that. No it wasn't, nor did he have a better right to it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Antler's Fury Posted March 1, 2014 Share Posted March 1, 2014 No it wasn't, nor did he have a better right to it. Sure it was. He was older, and therefore had a better right than Renly. He had also fought to keep it in Baratheon hands, while Renly did not. Even Cersei admits that Storm's End was Stannis' by rights. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boarsbane Posted March 1, 2014 Share Posted March 1, 2014 Sure it was. He was older, and therefore had a better right than Renly. He had also fought to keep it in Baratheon hands, while Renly did not. Even Cersei admits that Storm's End was Stannis' by rights. You mean he held out during the siege? Not much fighting was done and if I recall Renly was there too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Antler's Fury Posted March 1, 2014 Share Posted March 1, 2014 You mean he held out during the siege? Not much fighting was done and if I recall Renly was there too. There clearly was fighting there, as Donal Noye lost his arm. And Stannis was actually in charge, and had to keep the men disciplined while starving, or else they'd overthrow him and open the gates just to eat. Renly was certainly there, but he was only four at the time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Minsc Posted March 1, 2014 Share Posted March 1, 2014 Sure it was. He was older, and therefore had a better right than Renly. He had also fought to keep it in Baratheon hands, while Renly did not. Even Cersei admits that Storm's End was Stannis' by rights. Nope, Robert was still alive thus he had no claim the same as Renly. Also, Cersei never said that only that she thinks Robert did it out of spite while Cressen talks about the strategic purposes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoamingRonin Posted March 1, 2014 Share Posted March 1, 2014 Sure it was. He was older, and therefore had a better right than Renly. He had also fought to keep it in Baratheon hands, while Renly did not. Even Cersei admits that Storm's End was Stannis' by rights. She was quoting Stannis. It's not her personal opinion: "And Stannis has always felt he was cheated of Storm's End," Cersei said thoughtfully. "The ancestral seat of House Baratheon, his by rights . . . if you knew how many times he came to Robert singing that same dull song in that gloomy aggrieved tone he has. When Robert gave the place to Renly, Stannis clenched his jaw so tight I thought his teeth would shatter." "He took it as a slight." "It was meant as a slight," Cersei said. "Shall we raise a cup to brotherly love?" "Yes," she answered, breathless. "Oh, gods, yes." ETA: Cersei declared herself Queen Regent and the Lady of Casterly Rock. I doubt she would share Stannis' opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Antler's Fury Posted March 1, 2014 Share Posted March 1, 2014 Nope, Robert was still alive thus he had no claim the same as Renly. Also, Cersei never said that only that she thinks Robert did it out of spite while Cressen talks about the strategic purposes. Regardless, even while Robert lived, Stannis had more of a claim to it than Renly did because he was older, and because he fought to keep it. Stannis certainly had a claim, he was Robert's heir after all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Minsc Posted March 1, 2014 Share Posted March 1, 2014 he was Robert's heir after all. Which is why he got Dragonstone, but nothing can satisfy the big baby. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fat Mac Posted March 1, 2014 Share Posted March 1, 2014 Which is why he got Dragonstone, but nothing can satisfy the big baby. Storm's End likely would have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boarsbane Posted March 1, 2014 Share Posted March 1, 2014 Storm's End likely would have. He would probably start whining about how he should of got Highgarden since Mace Tyrell fought with Aerys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Minsc Posted March 1, 2014 Share Posted March 1, 2014 Storm's End likely would have. Nah, then he would have cried about Renly getting Dragonstone while stomping his feet that he is the heir. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Antler's Fury Posted March 1, 2014 Share Posted March 1, 2014 Which is why he got Dragonstone, but nothing can satisfy the big baby. How is he a baby for being punished while Robert's enemies got off scot free? Balon Greyjoy and Mace Tyrell ended up better off than Stannis did, and you see Stannis' position as unreasonable? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Minsc Posted March 1, 2014 Share Posted March 1, 2014 How is he a baby for being punished while Robert's enemies got off scot free? Balon Greyjoy and Mace Tyrell ended up better off than Stannis did, and you see Stannis' position as unreasonable? He wasn't punished nor did Robert's enemies get off scot free. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Antler's Fury Posted March 1, 2014 Share Posted March 1, 2014 He would probably start whining about how he should of got Highgarden since Mace Tyrell fought with Aerys. How is it at all fair to punish Stannis for not grabbing the Targaryens, when their departure was clearly beyond his control, but not Mace, for siding with the Targaryens and laying siege to Storm's End? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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