Stannis isn't a religious zealot

[Kienn]

This doesn't even make any sense. 'Oppress the people of Westeros because he will stop at nothing for power!' Since when was Stannis a Mojo-Jojo style villain who wants to destroy stuff because because?

Funny how Stanfans are called fanatics (despite never making bold outright baseless statements) when it is our King who is at the receiving end of such ridiculous baseless statements.

He let his own older brother die as well Ned then killed his younger brother and a loyal bannerman. He definitely would have killed his nephew if Mel hadn't convinced him to go north.

[Sir Lee knot]

Why didn't Ramsey burn the Godswood? Surely that would have been undeniable proof that the Iron Born torched Winterfell.

Stannis's doesn't allow his men to rape when they come to the wall. There is no way he is allowing the Queen's Men burn the Godswood and risk the North turning on him.

1. Because Ramsay is a northman. Burning the Godswood to him would be like stabbing Jesus to a christian.

2. When he offered Jon Lordship of Winterfell the condition was that he burned the Godswood. He may not do that now because his army is like 70% northmen but he certainly planned on it.

[Mayura]

No, he isn't a religious zealot, and we know he isn't because GRRM and the creators of the show have repeatedly said so. We can even find a clue in the official WOIAFapp: "Though Stannis does not believe in gods or prophecies, he accepts Melisandre's aid".

Religion is a mean to win the throne to Stannis. In fact, it is not a bad idea: when you think about it, Stannis would never receive the support of the High Septon and of the Faith of the Seven to sit the IT. They rallied behind the Lannisters and are now more likely to support Aegon than anyone else (which I am sure Varys has made sure of). So it wasn't a bad move to have the "growing religion" on his side. Plus Meisandre is proving to be of some use as, for whatever reason it might be, she seems to have real useful powers.

[NOT A TARG I SWEAR]

Pretty much this.

The fact that he doesn't really believe in it makes it worse IMO.

So kind of similar to Dany with the Dothraki in manipulating them into pillaging to get to Westeros?

[Nictarion]

So kind of similar to Dany with the Dothraki in manipulating them into pillaging to get to Westeros?

Lol, yeah they really had to be "manipulated" to pillage. They certainly never did that sort of thing before the evil Daenerys came along.

[Northbound2.0]

He uses religion as a means to an end, nothing more. The day we see Stannis, sitting front row in a church settting or leading a congregation and actually meaning it......is the day Dany, sits the Iron Throne; after all the wars and the Long Night are over. Ain't flippin happening.

[Grimbold]

Well i certainly wasn't calling him a fanatic, just there may be some hints of belief.

On the matter of religion, im curious how ruthless Stannis will deal with the Faith Militant, if he ever reaches KL

[Shadrich]

Stannis sees the power R'hllor has, but no way he believes in the God, nor is he a fanatic of it. His force, small as it is, is made up of followers of the Seven, Red God and the Old Gods. If you think about it, he is actually a tolerant person, and accepts that not everyone follows Rahloo.

I think soon Stannis might see the power of the Old Gods as well.

[Tini]

Well i certainly wasn't calling him a fanatic, just there may be some hints of belief.

On the matter of religion, im curious how ruthless Stannis will deal with the Faith Militant, if he ever reaches KL

I guess that depends. It depends what the Faith militant can offer Stannis. If the Faith Militant declares for Stannis, he'll accept their support and confirm their privileges. Just as he accepted Melisandre and R'hllor's promise.

Stannis sees the power R'hllor has, but no way he believes in the God, nor is he a fanatic of it. His force, small as it is, is made up of followers of the Seven, Red God and the Old Gods. If you think about it, he is actually a tolerant person, and accepts that not everyone follows Rahloo.

I think soon Stannis might see the power of the Old Gods as well.

He has to be tolerant now because his force is so small - he cannot afford to alienate anyone willing to support him. When he was still in power at Dragonstone, he tolerated how R'hllor's followers burned followers of the Seven. He is no fanatic, but there is the question what he is willing to tolerate in exchange for powerful allies.

[RoamingRonin]

Stannis will force R'hllor on the realm. He's already changed his sigil. Even if he doesn't believe in the god, he's not going to stop Mel from burning every sept and godswood. He's already tried to get Jon to do it. He's already told the wildlings they can accept R'hllor or go back to the dark (you know, where the Great Other - his enemy - lurks).

[Shadrich]

He has to be tolerant now because his force is so small - he cannot afford to alienate anyone willing to support him. When he was still in power at Dragonstone, he tolerated how R'hllor's followers burned followers of the Seven. He is no fanatic, but there is the question what he is willing to tolerate in exchange for powerful allies.

Not really. He went a bit over the top when he burned the Sept on Dragonstone, but he didn't force anyone to change their religion.

[AintNoStark]

Stannis will force R'hllor on the realm. He's already changed his sigil. Even if he doesn't believe in the god, he's not going to stop Mel from burning every sept and godswood. He's already tried to get Jon to do it. He's already told the wildlings they can accept R'hllor or go back to the dark (you know, where the Great Other - his enemy - lurks).

Again, where do you guys come up with this lol

He will burn a sept if it does his campaign good. He won't do it without reason and I doubt he will do it once he is in power and doesn't want to offend people and fuel a rebellion.

[LordStoneheart]

Worse? His not believing is what curbs the zealotry, executions to Gods are not limited to Rhalloo, and all those executed are on death row anyway, Stannis allows people to worship as long as they obey his laws, which means he doesnt do a Vic and burn the pretty girls. This is not zealotry, no more than keeping to the Old Gods is.

As far as him accepting Rhalloo and his men converting, grin and bear it, stopping them from preaching shows a lack of tolerance similar to what they'd attempt to show were he not there to keep them in line. It took the Old Gods and the Seven a long time to co-exist. Now they're going to have to live with the red god (who is coming with or without Stannis) and likewise, seeing how Stannis has servants of all three, step one is taken.

Except the Red followers don't take kindly to other religions. They have this habit of, ya know, burning them. They cannot co-exist peacefully. Stannis only does because he needs the support of these other faiths if he wants to get anywhere. If he had went to essos and picked up a sizable army of the red faith, I doubt they'd have "co-existed" with the seven or the old gods.

Yes, it does make it worse that he doesn't believe in Rhllor but is letting fanatics like Mel, Selyse, and others have influence. He can only curb so much of it. And part of his rule is his reputation, and he was unpopular in the eyes of Westeros before he converted. He looks even worse now because the smallfolk and others have only second hand info. In their eyes he was responsible for the burning of septs, weirwoods, and humans who followed either faith. Stannis is not only making himself a religious zealot by proxy with Mel, he is allowing himself to be known as a religious zealot to the rest of Westeros.

Stannis is not personally religious. Stannis allows and even at times encourages religious intolerance and violence. If that doesn't make him a zealot, then I guess he really is this infallible Zeus character some make him out to be. Sort of goes against the popular "everyone is grey" talk that's thrown around, but whatevs.

[Nictarion]

And part of his rule is his reputation, and he was unpopular in the eyes of Westeros before he converted.

I think this is an important point. Even Aegon the Conqueror converted to the 7 to appease the people.

[devilrob6]

1. Because Ramsay is a northman. Burning the Godswood to him would be like stabbing Jesus to a christian.

2. When he offered Jon Lordship of Winterfell the condition was that he burned the Godswood. He may not do that now because his army is like 70% northmen but he certainly planned on it.

2. I think Jon could have negotiated there. Stannis was asking something of Jon, not the other way around. What Stannis needed most was a Stark in Winterfell. If Jon had said that he would accept under the condition that the Godswood would not be burned i believe Stannis would have agreed. Pleasing the Queen's men is only secondary here.

[AintNoStark]

So according to critics Stannis will go around burning septs to appease the fuck out of Melisandre long after he's won the Throne because screw logic.

Your argument is a joke.

[RoamingRonin]

So according to critics Stannis will go around burning septs to appease the fuck out of Melisandre long after he's won the Throne because screw logic.

Your argument is a joke.

He has a track record of doing so. What proof do you have that he won't? Your fan biasness is a joke.

ETA: Lets not forget he's parading himself around as Azor Ahai, the Lord's Chosen.

[Nictarion]

So according to critics Stannis will go around burning septs to appease the fuck out of Melisandre long after he's won the Throne because screw logic.

Your argument is a joke.

Well, personally I don't see him ever sitting on the IT. I believe he will die in the next book. And it's also likely Melisandre will leave him anyway to serve the real AA, be it Jon or Dany.

[Lady Sharya]

Not really. He went a bit over the top when he burned the Sept on Dragonstone, but he didn't force anyone to change their religion.

No, but he did force the Wildlings to...unless you view them actually have a choice.

In the interest of fairness, here are some basic definitions from Merrian-Webster that provide some objectivity to Stan-labeling:

Zealot: A person who has very strong feeling about something (such as religion or politics) and who wants other people to have those feelings : A zealous person.

-Stan is a political & moral/lawful zealot but not wholly a religious zealot since he doesn't believe in the religion he wants strategic others to convert to.

-Some Stanfans are zealots, some are not.

Fanatic: Marked by excessive enthusiasm and often intense uncritical devotion.

-Stan is (most of the time) a politically moral/lawful Fanatic but far from a religious one.

-Some Stanfans are fanatics, some are not.

Hypocrite:

1. A person who puts on a false appearance of virtue or religion.

2. A person who acts in contradiction to his or her stated beliefs or feelings.

-Stan is a religious hypocrite (see the reason why he isn't a religious zealot).

-Stan is sometimes a political & moral/lawful hypocrite (Ex: chooses who must be punished for treason based upon their value to him. Commits adultery). For the most part thou, it's his political fanaticism that causes his political & moral/lawful compass to stray.

Tolerance: Sympathy or indulgence for beliefs or practices differing from or conflicting with one's own.

-Stan has little if any moral/lawful tolerance for others beliefs or practices.

-This one is tricky with regard to religious tolerance. One could say he is because he allows men in his command to practice their own faith, but since he doesn't really believe in any of the faiths (see reason why he isn't a religious zealot) there is no conflicting belief to tolerate. So, I think Stan has not shown religious tolerance at all. Religion is simply a tool.

The thing I find somewhat disturbing about Stannis' character is the unpredictability of his moral/lawful decisions and his lack of religious zeal. We have not seen him with any real power & I don't believe anyone here can predict where GRRM is going to take his story.

[Sir Lee knot]

2. I think Jon could have negotiated there. Stannis was asking something of Jon, not the other way around. What Stannis needed most was a Stark in Winterfell. If Jon had said that he would accept under the condition that the Godswood would not be burned i believe Stannis would have agreed. Pleasing the Queen's men is only secondary here.

Yeah, I got the same feeling. The only thing is that maybe he did negotiate a bit off screen and we're just to assume Stannis is Iron and therefore did not budge. I guess we won't really know...