Revenge of the Florents?

[Mithras]

Sam's mother seems to be very nice.

[Boarsbane]

What does that have to do with the Stormlands? The Florents are from the Reach.

The Reach lords and Stormlords, in general, have switched sides the most often and made up Renly and Stannis' armies.

[Stormland's Fury]

The Stormlords stayed loyal to the Lord Paramount of the Stormlands: Renly. After his death they joined the Baratheon who was the new Lord Paramount: Stannis. They never even left the Stormlands and always stayed with a Baratheon.

Stannis himself even said that some Stormlords may fight for Joffrey as they think he's Robert's true son.

[Chatty Duelist]

When the Mannis takes what is his.

[the conquoring bastard25]

Lleyton Hightower's current wife is a Florent. Baelor Hightower's wife is a Rowan. Tarly's wife is a Florent. Given that many people believe Tarly and Rowan will side with Faegon they may try to help the Florents restore their seat when they remove the Tyrells from power. I think these lords may have had enough of Mace Tyrell for getting all the rewards through the work of his bannermen. Considering Randyll Tarly won Ashford and killed a bunch of Florent relatives only to have Brightwater Keep not rewarded to him (considering his wife had the strongest claim) may influence him. They may take pity on the Florents firstly losing out to the Tyrells after the Gardeners died and then losing their ancestral seat to them because of the Tyrell ambitions. Of course there's also the problem that Lleyton Hightower's grandkids are Tyrells, Mathis Rowan's wife is a Redwyne and the Redwynes are too closely connected to the Tyrells to ever betray them. So the issue is very complex.

Don't forget that Edric Storm could have a claim to both if disaster were to strike the Tyrells, and Aegon legitimizes him to have a loyal/puppet lord of Storm's End. I mean there's no way Stannis and Aegon are ever going to be friends. So making Edric Storm legit might not be that bad of a plan. When the Tyrells make their big splash because they over played their hand. Once again there are those loyal Florent loyal to the wrong king Stannis. Edric might be the best appeasement Aegon could provide to the Reach. But let's not forget that in the Reach the real sleeper cell is the Redwynes.

They were going to marry the Blackfish to a daughter of the Arbor. Aegon I went hawking with some of Redwyne's in days past. Then there is Redwynes reaction in council like he could give a shit what Tywin was bestowing on his kin and liege lord. It's almost like he knew his day was coming. Then there is the fact that he's got twins (male) only one lordship. So Tarly and maidenpoole might be changing hands for say Brightwater Keep. That would give the Redwynes an other port where all the taxes importing and exporting would hit their coffers not the crowns. While Tarly's wife gets her ancestral seat back for one of those daughters, a grand prize for any second or third son. An instant lord, with lands, income and a place at court. Not to shabby for turning their cloaks I would say.

Not to mention when it comes to disconcert in the Reach its generally the lesser houses that rebel. Look at some of the names that weren't on the Reaches side in the Dance, and in the first blackfyre Rebellion, all lesser houses.

Yeah, my mistake. The daughters of Alester are married to Lord Leyton Hightower and Lord Randyll Tarly. Samwell is thus Shireen's distant cousin. I find it strange that Stannis didn't make a joke about that - or Samwell's prominent Florent ears (they have not been mentioned yet, but if all the other Florents are an indication, he must have them) - in AFfC.

That Alekyne is in Oldtown is mentioned in the appendix of AFfC, by the way. But Stannis, Selyse and Axell won't play a role in Alekyne's restoration. They burned his father alive, after all. If Stannis prevails and Shireen ascends the Iron Throne, Brightwater and/or Highgarden will go to Ser Axell.

I could see Lady Tarly follow Lord Leyton's lead should the Hightowers declare for Aegon. Lord Rowan most certainly will be the first major Reach lord to defect, since he should be at Storm's End when Aegon takes it. That is, if he survives the battle. But Mathis Rowan would most likely declare for Aegon VI without a battle if he is quietly approached by Aegon and Connington before the battle. The man was abhorred by the murder of Rhaegar's children, and should thus be one of the major Targaryen loyalists in the Reach.

See above because I 100% agree.

The Stormlords stayed loyal to the Lord Paramount of the Stormlands: Renly. After his death they joined the Baratheon who was the new Lord Paramount: Stannis. They never even left the Stormlands and always stayed with a Baratheon.

Stannis himself even said that some Stormlords may fight for Joffrey as they think he's Robert's true son.

Thank you they only did their duty. I don't understand why people act like they were turncloaks. Renly was given Storm's End and charge of it's lands by the King. So when Renly called his banners, it was their duty to serve Renly not Stannis. By Royal Decree Storm's End belonged to Renly and all of it's bannerman. Now the Reach has no such protection, they should have gone over to Stannis when he first raised his banners because in reality he was the heir of Robert Baratheon.first of his namne and may the gods judge him justly.

The Florents are kind of Turncloaks, they should have been with Stannis from the beginning.

[OnlyOne]

All very interesting, but I only care that they fall. The Tyrells reach too high much like the Boleyns.

[Sullen]

The Stormlords stayed loyal to the Lord Paramount of the Stormlands: Renly. After his death they joined the Baratheon who was the new Lord Paramount: Stannis. They never even left the Stormlands and always stayed with a Baratheon.

Stannis himself even said that some Stormlords may fight for Joffrey as they think he's Robert's true son.

Red Ronnet backed Renly first, then Stannis, and finally claims to be loyal to Joffrey and the Iron Throne. I highly doubt he is the only Stormlord flip-flopping on the issue.

Aegon's Landing might prove itself another opportunity for the opportunist Stormlanders to switch sides. The "loyal" ones are a very small minority.

[Twenty of House Goodmen]

Red Ronnet backed Renly first, then Stannis, and finally claims to be loyal to Joffrey and the Iron Throne. I highly doubt he is the only Stormlord flip-flopping on the issue.

Aegon's Landing might prove itself another opportunity for the opportunist Stormlanders to switch sides. The "loyal" ones are a very small minority.

House Connington is the least loyal Stormlord house to begin with.

The other Stormlords haven't done anything disloyal yet except surrender and swear fealty to Joffrey. You could argue that they were just trying to stay alive since Stannis' ships could only carry a couple thousand men. Even then, the majority of the Stormlanders went back home and disbanded their levies rather than fight for Joffrey.

As for Aegon, that could be true, but at the same time, we hear from JonCon POV that many of the Cape Wrath houses have members taken as hostages, so a decent amount of them also won't have a choice.

Not saying the Stormlords are super loyal honorable houses, but they certainly aren't the same as the Reach.

[Stormland's Fury]

Red Ronnet backed Renly first, then Stannis, and finally claims to be loyal to Joffrey and the Iron Throne. I highly doubt he is the only Stormlord flip-flopping on the issue.

Aegon's Landing might prove itself another opportunity for the opportunist Stormlanders to switch sides. The "loyal" ones are a very small minority.

But not the Stormlords as a whole. 2 Estermonts were also with Stannis from the beginning, while the rest where with Renly. You can't attribute the doing of individuals to a whole region. Stannis was beaten and some were forced to bend the knee to Joffrey Baratheon (which Stannis himself agrees can lead to confusion, since he doesn't think everyone believed his letter). Other men chose execution after being captured instead of bending. That doesn't speak for lack of loyalty.

On top of having conflicted loyalties between 3 Baratheons, they were pretty much consistent. The Reachmen don't have that benefit of the doubt.

And Aegon invading their territory doesn't really mean that they join him but the contrary.

[Stormland's Fury]

DP

[Sullen]

House Connington is the least loyal Stormlord house to begin with.

The other Stormlords haven't done anything disloyal yet except surrender and swear fealty to Joffrey. You could argue that they were just trying to stay alive since Stannis' ships could only carry a couple thousand men. Even then, the majority of the Stormlanders went back home and disbanded their levies rather than fight for Joffrey.

As for Aegon, that could be true, but at the same time, we hear from JonCon POV that many of the Cape Wrath houses have members taken as hostages, so a decent amount of them also won't have a choice.

Not saying the Stormlords are super loyal honorable houses, but they certainly aren't the same as the Reach.

I don't know, House Connington was pretty damn loyal to the Targaryens.

And surrendering to Joffrey after claiming he was a bastard with no rights to the Throne seems pretty disloyal, Stannis was still alive, not all Stormlords gave up on the cause, there was still reason to fight.

In comparison, people like Blackwood or Oberyn Martell keep fighting for a cause long after it has been "lost".

On top of having conflicted loyalties between 3 Baratheons, they were pretty much consistent. The Reachmen don't have that benefit of the doubt.

Two Baratheons, by joining up with Stannis, they acknowledge that Joffrey is a bastard born of incest with no right to the Throne, there is no back-pedalling after that. People like Estermont, Brienne, Roland Storm, or Penrose do show that the Stormlanders can be extremely loyal though.

[Stormland's Fury]

Two Baratheons, by joining up with Stannis, they acknowledge that Joffrey is a bastard born of incest with no right to the Throne, there is no back-pedalling after that. People like Estermont, Brienne, Roland Storm, or Penrose do show that the Stormlanders can be extremely loyal though.

At the beginning of the war there where still 3 Baratheons to choose from. Even Stannis himself said that not everyone was convinced and still thought that Joffrey might be Robert's son, most Stormlords followed him as their liege lord not necessarily as their king.

Jon Connigton was loyal to the Targs but not his liege lord Robert. After all he got promised dominion over the Stormlands and Storm's End. Being good friends with Rhaegar doesn't mean it negates the fact that he betrayed his liege lord and tried to displace him. It's arguable that he stayed loyal to his friend but not House Targaryen, the same reason he supports Aegon. (and taking back his lands)

[Sullen]

We are talking about Stannis as Lord Paramount here, not as king. Even he himself said that not everyone was convinced and still thought that Joffrey might be Robert's son.

Jon Connigton was loyal to the Targs but not his liege lord Robert. After all he got promised dominion over the Stormlands and Storm's End. Being good friends with Rhaegar doesn't mean it negates the fact that he betrayed his liege lord and tried to displace him. It's arguable that he stayed loyal to his friend but not House Targaryen, the same reason he supports Aegon. (and taking back his lands)

He stayed loyal to the Crown until the very end. Whether or not you owe your loyalty to your liege lord over your King is a matter of debate, by that logic all the Reachmen that stuck with Mace would be in the right, while those who joined with Stannis would be opportunistic traitors.

Jon and House Connington stayed with the Targaryens until the very end, and in the case of Jon, even after Targ-caused exile and the fall of House Targaryen. That shows loyalty and didcation in my opinion.

[Stormland's Fury]

He stayed loyal to the Crown until the very end. Whether or not you owe your loyalty to your liege lord over your King is a matter of debate, by that logic all the Reachmen that stuck with Mace would be in the right, while those who joined with Stannis would be opportunistic traitors.

Jon and House Connington stayed with the Targaryens until the very end, and in the case of Jon, even after Targ-caused exile and the fall of House Targaryen. That shows loyalty and didcation in my opinion.

No, the Reachmen should have stayed loyal to either Joffrey or declare for Stannis from the beginning. Instead they switched sides several times and got involved in Stormland politics as well, while the Stormlords stayed on their own land and declared for members of their liege house. And yes the ones who stayed with Mace were right, but it was Mace who was in the wrong. That's how feudalism works.

Yes, loyalty to his friend. But this was a debate about not switching allegiances as a region.

[Sullen]

No, the Reachmen should have stayed loyal to either Joffrey or declare for Stannis from the beginning. Instead they switched sides several times and got involved in Stormland politics as well, while the Stormlords stayed on their own land and declared for members of their liege house. And yes the ones who stayed with Mace were right, but it was Mace who was in the wrong. That's how feudalism works.

Yes, loyalty to his friend. But this was a debate about not switching allegiances as a region.

They stayed loyal to Mace by backing Renly, blame Mace if you want to blame anyone, they did their job by supporting their liege lord from start to finish, and that's apparently how feudalism works. Those who supported Stannis after Renly's death would be in the wrong here.

And whether or not Rhaegar was Jon's friend is irrelevant, and so what if he had something to gain out of staying loyal to the Crown? He stayed loyal to House Targaryen (not only Rhaegar) to the very end, and then some.

[Stormland's Fury]

They stayed loyal to Mace by backing Renly, blame Mace if you want to blame anyone, they did their job by supporting their liege lord from start to finish, and that's apparently how feudalism works. Those who supported Stannis after Renly's death would be in the wrong here.

And whether or not Rhaegar was Jon's friend is irrelevant, and so what if he had something to gain out of staying loyal to the Crown? He stayed loyal to House Targaryen (not only Rhaegar) to the very end, and then some.

Well no, they split afterwards. The Stormlords just always stayed with the Baratheon in charge of the Stormlands. The Reachmen didn't even stay with their own liege house. This was about the Stormlords being compared to Reachmen in terms of loyalty.

Jon was exiled and stripped of all his titles by Aerys II Targaryen. There is no way he's loyal to the house as a whole, he clearly feels dutiful to Rhaegar and his direct offspring though.

[Sullen]

Well no, they split afterwards. The Stormlords just always stayed with the Baratheon in charge of the Stormlands. The Reachmen didn't even stay with their own liege house. This was about the Stormlords being compared to Reachmen in terms of loyalty.

Jon was exiled and stripped of all his titles by Aerys II Targaryen. There is no way he's loyal to the house as a whole, he clearly feels dutiful to Rhaegar and his direct offspring though.

I was talking about the Reachmen, I don't exactly blame the Stormlords for splitting up.

And yes, Jon was exiled, but kept on fighting to restore the Targaryen dynasty. His feelings for Rhaegar do not matter, his actions do. Stannis threatened to have Davos killed and had him imprisoned, yet all agree that Davos stayed loyal to Stannis, why can't the same be true for Jon?

[Stormland's Fury]

And yes, Jon was exiled, but kept on fighting to restore the Targaryen dynasty. His feelings for Rhaegar do not matter, his actions do. Stannis threatened to have Davos killed and had him imprisoned, yet all agree that Davos stayed loyal to Stannis, why can't the same be true for Jon?

Jon basically is Rhaegar's Davos.

How is that comparable though? It's not like Steffon had exiled Davos or something before Stannis gave him lands and raised him to be a knight. Of course he's loyal to him, not necessarily House Baratheon.

Aerys did all that to Jon and yet he stayed loyal to Rhaegar, despite all this. He tries to restore House Targaryen under Rhaegar's (presumed) son. I still would count that as being loyal to him as a person not his house. He clearly wants Rhaegar's son on the throne or before that even just care from him as it seems he got approached by Illryo/Varys.

[paramount]

No the Florents are all be but broken and friendless. The most powerful house in the Reach would be house Hightower followed by the Redwyne's and Tarlies. The Florents are petty and no one gives a crap about their superior claim to the Reach.