Lost Melnibonean Posted March 31, 2014 Share Posted March 31, 2014 "Have you seen Mace Tyrell's boy? The Knight of Flowers, they call him. Now there's a son any man would be proud to own to." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaeronDrumm Posted March 31, 2014 Share Posted March 31, 2014 Agree with all these, i dont think hed be serious about it or get angry, Stannis on the other hand i can picture being straight up homophobe, i dont even think he likes heterosexuals to have a good time I don't think he is: Stannis' only homophobic comment that I recall is to Renly, and that's when his gay brother is being a jerk and bragging about having Storm's End, a hot and powerful wife and being about to grab the crown, while Stannis got Selyse, Dragonstone and basically screwed at every turn. And his comment of "and in your bed she's like to die a maid" is basically a 'cut the macho bullshit' snark to Renly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jarl the climber Posted March 31, 2014 Share Posted March 31, 2014 Homosexuality is at least taboo, as Jon Snow mentions the fact that Whoresbane Umber's past was considered sordid, because the prostitute he killed was male and I think a sort of homophobia is why all the men at the Watch are so uncomfortable with Satin. People seem pretty freaked out by Oberyn's bisexuality as well. Its not that Whoresbane past is sordid, people just whisper about the prostitute being a male because if it gets back to Whoresbane you might have a fight on your hands. Everyone is fine with Satin once they got to know him, he ran into trouble when Jon promoted him, his past as prostitute seemed unsuitable for a junior officer, if he had just been discreetly gay and of good family it would have been fine. Oberyns sexuality, whatever it was did not seem to count against him in Dorne, nor did Renlys in the Stormlands nor for Ser Loras in the Reach. so yeah its definitely greyer in the books than it is in the TV show. Its okay to whisper about it but not to shout out about and being a catamite in Oldtown is sort of shout out if you see what I'm saying. People could whisper about Loras and Renly, thats okay, but if Renly started dressing Loras in velvets and started calling him his queen that would be a no-no, that's the sort of stuff that gets talked about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bright Blue Eyes Posted March 31, 2014 Share Posted March 31, 2014 Its not that Whoresbane past is sordid, people just whisper about the prostitute being a male because if it gets back to Whoresbane you might have a fight on your hands. Everyone is fine with Satin once they got to know him, he ran into trouble when Jon promoted him, his past as prostitute seemed unsuitable for a junior officer, if he had just been discreetly gay and of good family it would have been fine. Oberyns sexuality, whatever it was did not seem to count against him in Dorne, nor did Renlys in the Stormlands nor for Ser Loras in the Reach. so yeah its definitely greyer in the books than it is in the TV show. Its okay to whisper about it but not to shout out about and being a catamite in Oldtown is sort of shout out if you see what I'm saying. People could whisper about Loras and Renly, thats okay, but if Renly started dressing Loras in velvets and started calling him his queen that would be a no-no, that's the sort of stuff that gets talked about. :agree: It's not having sex with a male that's considered unsuitable or distasteful, it is selling his body. Shae would have the same problems in a purely female organization as Satin had in the NW. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glamourweaver Posted March 31, 2014 Share Posted March 31, 2014 Do we know if Satin was SENT to the Wall for prostitution? Because obviously it's legal in the case of women. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bright Blue Eyes Posted March 31, 2014 Share Posted March 31, 2014 Do we know if Satin was SENT to the Wall for prostitution? Because obviously it's legal in the case of women. No, we don't. Personally, I consider it unlikely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IRON BANK Posted March 31, 2014 Share Posted March 31, 2014 He would do what he always did go bury himself in a bottle somewhere and try to forget. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MyLittleFinger Posted March 31, 2014 Share Posted March 31, 2014 Homosexuality is at least taboo, as Jon Snow mentions the fact that Whoresbane Umber's past was considered sordid, because the prostitute he killed was male and I think a sort of homophobia is why all the men at the Watch are so uncomfortable with Satin. People seem pretty freaked out by Oberyn's bisexuality as well. Oberyn also was nearish 40 and not married, nor ever sired a legit heir. That was why he was so scorned. He's a Prince of Dorne, a famous warrior, has kids by anything that moves that interests him, yet he won't marry. That's court gossip time. The other two I'll grant you face discrimination, but Whoresbane did kill some sex worker (maybe a guy?) and Satin sadly was a male prostitute before the Wall and set for hatred (Despite it being clear he serviced at least one lady+ with the whole ice wine thing). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ambi76 Posted March 31, 2014 Share Posted March 31, 2014 "What the hells? Seriously? :shocked: All right, whatever." :hat: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glamourweaver Posted March 31, 2014 Share Posted March 31, 2014 One of the major differences to keep in mind between Westeros and Medieval Europe is that the Faith is NOWHERE near as socially and politically powerful as the Church (because in Medieval Europe, the Church was THE defining uniting cultural authority; while in Westeros it's the Iron Throne - Aenys and Maegor fought a war to firmly establish that truth over the Faith). So it makes sense that things that might be seen as "sin" that don't involve threats to order, commerce, and the feudal hierarchy, are only taboo rather than actively restricted and punished in Westeros.We don't explicitly know whether the Faith of the Seven considers homosexuality sin, but I'd assume so since they're characterized as doctrinally puritanical about sex.Of course, now that Cersei has undone Aenys, Maegor, and Jaehaerys' (who ended said war) work by allowing the Faith Militant to reform, social and legal shifts on this are definitely possible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stormland's Fury Posted March 31, 2014 Share Posted March 31, 2014 The Faith Militant are certainly hardcore. I could even see them going on a crusade (septade?) in Essos. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ziggy Targdust Posted March 31, 2014 Share Posted March 31, 2014 All it would take is one influential septon to say the 7 talked to him while he prayed and told him its wrong to be gay. Then its all gays are evil from then on Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stormland's Fury Posted March 31, 2014 Share Posted March 31, 2014 Robert could lament the fact that he was the only one of his brothers who wasn't a flamer. Zing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Carson Posted March 31, 2014 Share Posted March 31, 2014 I believe Robert knew that Renly was gay he probably didn't know about Loras. I think Robert let Renly Storm's End because he knew he wouldn't have children and he could give Storm's End to Tommen and Marry Myrcella to a Lannister and give her Casterly Rock and that would give Robert's children the power base for a dynasty. Maybe I'm giving Robert too much credit, but the marrying Joffrey to Sansa was his idea and not a bad one so he wasn't a complete fool. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cubarey Posted March 31, 2014 Share Posted March 31, 2014 Do not think Robert would have cared (it's unclear whether he knew) as long as Renley did the correct thing and married a noblewoman of note and had an heir. Actually the only character that would have a major problem with a close relative being gay would be Tywin as he is very staright laced when it comes to such things. Cersei would just make bad jokes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bronn Urgandy Posted March 31, 2014 Share Posted March 31, 2014 "I always thought Renly was the least martial of us, but it turns out that he is a better 'swordfighter' than me and Stannis combined." Robert laughed so hard he looked fit to burst. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bright Blue Eyes Posted March 31, 2014 Share Posted March 31, 2014 I believe Robert knew that Renly was gay he probably didn't know about Loras. I think Robert let Renly Storm's End because he knew he wouldn't have children and he could give Storm's End to Tommen and Marry Myrcella to a Lannister and give her Casterly Rock and that would give Robert's children the power base for a dynasty. Maybe I'm giving Robert too much credit, but the marrying Joffrey to Sansa was his idea and not a bad one so he wasn't a complete fool. Unlikely. Robert gave Renly Storms End while the latter was eight years old, long, long before puberty and awakening sexual preferences. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bronn Urgandy Posted March 31, 2014 Share Posted March 31, 2014 "I smell bacon" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glamourweaver Posted March 31, 2014 Share Posted March 31, 2014 The Faith Militant are certainly hardcore. I could even see them going on a crusade (septade?) in Essos. I actually wonder if in the days before the conquests, some High Septons in Oldtown didn't call for the Faith Militant and the faithful Kingdoms (Vale, Stormlands, Reach, Westlands, and to a lesser extent Dorne [Rhoynish culture giving the organized Faith less influence]) didn't wage Holy Crusades against the Ironborn (especially to 'liberate' whatever they held of the Riverlands at the time), the North, and other lords that held to the Old Gods in the Riverlands. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stormland's Fury Posted March 31, 2014 Share Posted March 31, 2014 I actually wonder if in the days before the conquests, some High Septons in Oldtown didn't call for the Faith Militant and the faithful Kingdoms (Vale, Stormlands, Reach, Westlands, and to a lesser extent Dorne [Rhoynish culture giving the organized Faith less influence]) didn't wage Holy Crusades against the Ironborn (especially to 'liberate' whatever they held of the Riverlands at the time), the North, and other lords that held to the Old Gods in the Riverlands. Except for the North and the Old Gods, three religions are actually armed now. I wonder if that comes into play somehow? EDIT: The Wildlings are now south of the Wall and they believe in the Old Gods. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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