The Black Kraken Posted March 31, 2014 Share Posted March 31, 2014 Yeah Idk about the new Mercy chapter, kind of bothered me.. Like I realize these books have realistic situations, that's why the hero can die suddenly, and bad things happen to good people. But Arya and all that.. Faceless men training, idk it just doesn't seem right, like I3ol3o said, she's like 11. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Annara Snow Posted March 31, 2014 Share Posted March 31, 2014 Pretty sure the Mercy chapter was all about rape, and luring the guy. And Arya is a POV character. I didn't say he was going to rape her.... I was saying he was going to try to woo her or something along those lines. What? The Mercy chapter was not about rape, it was about murder. Arya's murder of Raff. Nobody raped Arya, she was in control all the time and used his paedo lust to get him in the position to kill him. GRRM said there would be a "controversial" chapter, which I'm assuming will probably have sexual undertones. Not that there can't be other controversy, but it's GRRM. As to Mladen's comment, I think it's because in Westeros it's hard to define "adulthood," so the age where a character has sexual desires seems to be the line that makes sense to a lot of posters. I think conflating the two is problematic, but given this world, understandable. GRRM said nothing of the kind. Elio Garcia said that a Sansa chapter he read has some stuff in it that may be controversial in some corners of the fandom. Since when is "controversial" a synonym for sexual? edited for spoiler tags Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Annara Snow Posted March 31, 2014 Share Posted March 31, 2014 I have the same opinion. Sexual aspects have been present in Arya's past chapters, but up until the end of ADWD, Arya views it all with the detached attitude of a child. But this is definitely changing. If GRRM is manifesting this aspect of the tomboy sister's development, it's fair to assume that the same will be the case with the more conventional Sansa. She's completely detached in the Mercy cpihapter. Sex and sexual situations are something she is completely indifferent to and sees only as means to Sansa, on the other hand, has already had plenty of thoughts that concern her own developing sexuality and sexual desires. Why are people in this thread, when they talk about sexual aspects, talking just about girls being raped or using sexuality to get something, and not about girls having their own desires and acting on them? edited for spoiler tags Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Queen Sansa Stark Posted March 31, 2014 Share Posted March 31, 2014 She's completely detached in the Mercy chapter. Sex and sexual situations are something she is completely indifferent to and sees as just means to murder a guy on her list. I found it an extremely disturbing chapter to read, but what is interesting about that chapter is that it originally was meant to be written for a 16 year old Arya. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mladen Posted March 31, 2014 Share Posted March 31, 2014 snip snip Ladies, spoiler alert... Use spoiler brackets before you get yourselves in trouble :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
juanml82 Posted March 31, 2014 Share Posted March 31, 2014 Of course Sansa will have sex before the series ends. What's the big deal about it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Queen Sansa Stark Posted March 31, 2014 Share Posted March 31, 2014 Of course Sansa will have sex before the series ends. What's the big deal about it? The big deal isn't that it happens, but with whom. For example I have no problem with her having sex with Sandor, but Littlefinger... :ack: :stillsick: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Wolfhound Posted March 31, 2014 Share Posted March 31, 2014 I maybe didn't find the chapter quite so squicky, because it's just an act. She's playing a part - and perhaps that part is of an older girl. She has a different face, so changing her age isn't much of a stretch. Besides, she's hanging out with a bunch of mummers whose attitudes seem pretty sexual - it's going to rub off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mladen Posted March 31, 2014 Share Posted March 31, 2014 Of course Sansa will have sex before the series ends. What's the big deal about it? Oh that small fact she is a minor. The big deal isn't that it happens, but with whom. For example I have no problem with her having sex with Sandor, but Littlefinger... :ack: :stillsick: IDK, I find any sexual relationship of Sansa at this moment quite repulsive. She is 13 years old, so I wouldn't feel comfortable with reading about that, even if it is with someone whom she loves. So, no, until she becomes old enough and clarifies her feelings towards someone whom she wants to have sex with, I don't want to read her having sex. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Queen Sansa Stark Posted March 31, 2014 Share Posted March 31, 2014 Oh that small fact she is a minor. IDK, I find any sexual relationship of Sansa at this moment quite repulsive. She is 13 years old, so I wouldn't feel comfortable with reading about that, even if it is with someone whom she loves. So, no, until she becomes old enough and clarifies her feelings towards someone whom she wants to have sex with, I don't want to read her having sex. I wouldn't also be that comfortable with it. Gosh it are moments like these that I wish that GRRM kept the 5-years gap. :( Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lady Arianne Martell Posted March 31, 2014 Author Share Posted March 31, 2014 Oh that small fact she is a minor. IDK, I find any sexual relationship of Sansa at this moment quite repulsive. She is 13 years old, so I wouldn't feel comfortable with reading about that, even if it is with someone whom she loves. So, no, until she becomes old enough and clarifies her feelings towards someone whom she wants to have sex with, I don't want to read her having sex. But that doesn't seem to bother people about Daenerys as much does it? No, I do not think it is just the fact that Sansa is a minor that will bother me, but I think it's also the fact that we saw her when she was SO chidlike and innocent. Dany, on the other hand, seemed rather sexually forward for a young girl. I think the development of Sansa's maturity will make a sexual act for her less gross. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mladen Posted March 31, 2014 Share Posted March 31, 2014 But that doesn't seem to bother people about Daenerys as much does it? No, I do not think it is just the fact that Sansa is a minor that will bother me, but I think it's also the fact that we saw her when she was SO chidlike and innocent. Dany, on the other hand, seemed rather sexually forward for a young girl. I think the development of Sansa's maturity will make a sexual act for her less gross. Oh, people were and many are still bothered with that scene... Later, Dany develops as the sexual being so it was a bit mitigated, but the first impact was rather horrendous. And it has always been used as one of the examples of Planetos being extremely perverse world. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
juanml82 Posted March 31, 2014 Share Posted March 31, 2014 Oh, people were and many are still bothered with that scene... Later, Dany develops as the sexual being so it was a bit mitigated, but the first impact was rather horrendous. And it has always been used as one of the examples of Planetos being extremely perverse world. But Daennerys had no say in getting into that marriage. While Sansa might (and maybe should) marry for political interest, she won't find herself in Daennerys position. That, of course, assuming that Sansa does the dutiful thing and doesn't have sex out of wedlock. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Queen Sansa Stark Posted March 31, 2014 Share Posted March 31, 2014 That, of course, assuming that Sansa does the dutiful thing and doesn't have sex out of wedlock. If you consider the women she is interacting with I really doubt that :lol: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KingOfTheRock Posted March 31, 2014 Share Posted March 31, 2014 If she does have to have a scene like it, make it near the end of the last books, when shes the oldest she'll get in the series. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Black Kraken Posted March 31, 2014 Share Posted March 31, 2014 Maybe there is a time jump in TWoW making Arya older? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KingOfTheRock Posted March 31, 2014 Share Posted March 31, 2014 Maybe there is a time jump in TWoW making Arya older? We can only hope, cause that is some disturbing shit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Queen Sansa Stark Posted March 31, 2014 Share Posted March 31, 2014 If she does have to have a scene like it, make it near the end of the last books, when shes the oldest she'll get in the series. I hope that because of the winter several years will pass away so she is 18 in the end. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KingOfTheRock Posted March 31, 2014 Share Posted March 31, 2014 I hope that because of the winter several years will pass away so she is 18 in the end. That would be pretty cool if Martin wrote it like that. Because if the "Long Winter" lasted for like a year then it would seem as if winter finally came, but it was only the equivalent of summer snows. :P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Black Kraken Posted March 31, 2014 Share Posted March 31, 2014 That would be pretty cool if Martin wrote it like that. Because if the "Long Winter" lasted for like a year then it would seem as if winter finally came, but it was only the equivalent of summer snows. :P Yeah but i don't know how he would write it like that, because what would be going on with the others? would they just hangout north of the wall and make no more attacks while winter rages on for a few years, then decide to move south. They already were moving on the Wall before Winter even started Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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