Jairion Lannister Posted April 18, 2014 Share Posted April 18, 2014 How will he be perceived now? In the books his character was at least morally grey, on the show so far, he has pretty much been a paragon of virtue. IMO the show has made much easier to like than the books ever did. He's been made a lot more likable although I wouldn't go as far as calling him "a paragon of virtue". Ultimately, he's still used whores, he was at least partly responsible for setting Blackwater Bay alight with Wildfire, and even if he's not fully approving and compliant of his families actions, he's involved with people like Tywin, Cersei and Joffrey and their awful actions nevertheless. Compared to the books, he's arguably a paragon of virtue, but in the context of the show alone he's certainly not. Perhaps he's not as morally grey as characters like Theon or Jaime, whereas he arguably is in the books, but he's still fairly morally grey in the show, even if he's closer to white then black. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew Marzolf Posted April 18, 2014 Share Posted April 18, 2014 :agree: . Also I find all of that stuff fascinating. Plus, the amount of power The Faith has accrued and the fact that they're armed again is likely to have heavy impacts on the story aside from Cersei being arrested. Especially if Stannis wins in the North and becomes a threat again, because they'd never allow him to take the IT with his fringe-religion. It might be fringe religion in Westeros but in it seems to be huge in Essos and this conflagration will probably spill back and forth between both continents. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beric175 Posted April 18, 2014 Share Posted April 18, 2014 Well, after he kills Shae and tywin he'll be a lot less likeable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jairion Lannister Posted April 18, 2014 Share Posted April 18, 2014 Well, after he kills Shae and tywin he'll be a lot less likeable. A lot of that will depend on it's portrayal, though. At the moment, he'd come across a lot less likable for doing so because Tywin is more sympathetic in the show than he is in the books. Depending on how they portray him in the remainder of the season though, that may change once again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wolverine Posted April 18, 2014 Share Posted April 18, 2014 A lot of that will depend on it's portrayal, though. At the moment, he'd come across a lot less likable for doing so because Tywin is more sympathetic in the show than he is in the books. Depending on how they portray him in the remainder of the season though, that may change once again. Right. I think the show will go in a direction where everyone will want him to kill them both. Most would already rightfully cheer if he killed Tywin. I sincerely think they want him to be a good guy on the show and his murders (if they appear at all) will not be nearly as harsh as in the book. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roose Seal Posted April 18, 2014 Share Posted April 18, 2014 At this point I wouldn't be surprised if Shae died at Tyrion's hands but by accident. Like they have an argument and he accidentally shoves her away and she falls off the balcony as Tyrion screams noooo or something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conchobar Posted April 18, 2014 Share Posted April 18, 2014 Theon had a light beard, who has been shaving it? Ramsay hardly handed him a razor to do it himself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Metopheles Posted April 18, 2014 Share Posted April 18, 2014 Theon had a light beard, who has been shaving it? Ramsay hardly handed him a razor to do it himself. He rubbed his cheeks against the walls of his cell, what else? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vegeta_Greyjoy Posted April 18, 2014 Share Posted April 18, 2014 Theon had a light beard, who has been shaving it? Ramsay hardly handed him a razor to do it himself. That's actually a pretty Ramsay thing to do, isn't it? Having Reek shaved every other day then force him to roll around in shit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conchobar Posted April 18, 2014 Share Posted April 18, 2014 He rubbed his cheeks against the walls of his cell, what else? Must try that some day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wsaharan Posted April 18, 2014 Share Posted April 18, 2014 Loras and Oberyn "flirting" was so damn wrong and unbelievable. It's like William Wallace going at it with The Prince of Wales.Oh and the Kingsguard. Really? "Oh dear me, my king seems to suffocating, but the Lord Commander ordered me to stay at my post, so I shall. But maybe I better move anyway. No I have my orders. But on the other hand...Oh nevermind, he's dead now. Oopsie." And all the lords of Westeros just stand there like a bunch of nervous chickens. Maybe they wanted a "clean" shot of Joffreys death, what do I know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Metopheles Posted April 18, 2014 Share Posted April 18, 2014 Must try that some day. Should try it. Never had a cleaner and smoother face before. Even a green and ecological option. No water wasted and no shaving cream. It's a win-win, essentially. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jairion Lannister Posted April 19, 2014 Share Posted April 19, 2014 Right. I think the show will go in a direction where everyone will want him to kill them both. Most would already rightfully cheer if he killed Tywin. I sincerely think they want him to be a good guy on the show and his murders (if they appear at all) will not be nearly as harsh as in the book. I think they've already put him in a position though where his murder of Tywin will appear at least a little harsh, due to Tywin's more sympathetic portrayal. While they want him to be a good guy, it's already been established he's not perfect, and they'll want to keep that to an extent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Metopheles Posted April 19, 2014 Share Posted April 19, 2014 I think they've already put him in a position though where his murder of Tywin will appear at least a little harsh, due to Tywin's more sympathetic portrayal. While they want him to be a good guy, it's already been established he's not perfect, and they'll want to keep that to an extent. Why is Tywin more sympathetic portrayed ? He is the exact same as in the books. Most of his dialogue is exactly like in the books. I think the addition of other scenes with Tywin gives that effect, but he is still the exact same guy. I think sometimes that the book version is more sympathetic, especially in the last Tyrion chapter of agot and the chapter where he and Tyrion talk about the new valyrian swords. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jairion Lannister Posted April 19, 2014 Share Posted April 19, 2014 Why is Tywin more sympathetic portrayed ? He is the exact same as in the books. Most of his dialogue is exactly like in the books. I think the addition of other scenes with Tywin gives that effect, but he is still the exact same guy. I think sometimes that the book version is more sympathetic, especially in the last Tyrion chapter of agot and the chapter where he and Tyrion talk about the new valyrian swords. His scenes with Arya gave him a new level of sympathy where he was shown to be fairly friendly and respectful to her. The impression given of him in the show is of someone who is heavily concerned with legacy and who is evil for a means, but who is perhaps not quite as evil as he is in the books. Not to say he isn't a fairly terrible person in the show; he clearly is, but I think they've gone for a more nuanced portrayal which is slightly greyer and allows viewers to feel some sort of level of sympathy for him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Metopheles Posted April 19, 2014 Share Posted April 19, 2014 His scenes with Arya gave him a new level of sympathy where he was shown to be fairly friendly and respectful to her. The impression given of him in the show is of someone who is heavily concerned with legacy and who is evil for a means, but who is perhaps not quite as evil as he is in the books. Not to say he isn't a fairly terrible person in the show; he clearly is, but I think they've gone for a more nuanced portrayal which is slightly greyer and allows viewers to feel some sort of level of sympathy for him. Yeah the Arya scenes.. But what gives the impression he wouldn't have done it in the books too? And I never caught that "evilness" about Tywin anyway. Roose Bolton is evil. Ramsay. But Tywin? He is strict and a war strategist. It's his job what he does. Well, different perceptions I guess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roose Seal Posted April 19, 2014 Share Posted April 19, 2014 Yeah the Arya scenes.. But what gives the impression he wouldn't have done it in the books too? And I never caught that "evilness" about Tywin anyway. Roose Bolton is evil. Ramsay. But Tywin? He is strict and a war strategist. It's his job what he does. Well, different perceptions I guess. Getting a woman gang-raped and forcing your 13y/o son to rape her too, totally not evil. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Desmond Wine's Bane Posted April 19, 2014 Share Posted April 19, 2014 Shireen did not look sad enough. Make her more miserable, you monsters at HBO. I actually like the show Shireen - especially as she was in S03. Having her as a bright light is a foil for the general darkness of Dragonstone. Not everyone is moping around after the defeat at the Blackwater. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roose Seal Posted April 19, 2014 Share Posted April 19, 2014 I actually like the show Shireen - especially as she was in S03. Having her as a bright light is a foil for the general darkness of Dragonstone. Not everyone is moping around after the defeat at the Blackwater.I agree with this. Shireen is definitely the only good (excellent even) aspect of Dragonstone arc. The actress really nails the nuance in the character, lonely and melancholy but still has a bit of that sort of hopeful cheeriness you'd expect from a child. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Metopheles Posted April 19, 2014 Share Posted April 19, 2014 I agree with this. Shireen is definitely the only good (excellent even) aspect of Dragonstone arc. The actress really nails the nuance in the character, lonely and melancholy but still has a bit of that sort of hopeful cheeriness you'd expect from a child. Melisandre is perfectly played. As is Davos. You may not agree that they portrayed Stannis correctly, but definitely they got Melisandre right and Davos. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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