[BOOK SPOILERS] Where will season 5 end?

[Dreams and Prophecies]

I can think of only two possible explanations:

1. They want more time next season to depict Sansa learning the game from LF-to echo Arya's apprenticeship as an assassin with the FM and Jon's hard learned lessons as LC of the NW. So if/when she does go from Pawn to Player in the Game it won't seem like an overnight transformation out of nowhere but more a natural progression. So they need to get all the other traumas and WTF moments out of the way quickly for Sansa's 'education' to begin.

2. There might be a LOT that's supposed with Sansa in the last two books, (remember D&D know all the major storylines and what the ending is going to be,) so they really need to keep the ball quickly rolling on that one to fit it all in.

These explanations are NOT mutually exclusive for the record-in fact I think it's probably a bit of both-or hope so anyway.

That is what i keep thinking as well.

[relish5k]

Has anyone brought up the idea that Mace Tyrell would take over as Regent/Hand, and then promptly be murdered by Varys? It would make sense timing wise, as he and Kevan arrive in Kings Landing at approximately the same time. And I think it would be hard for non-readers to remember Kevan, let alone muster any shock or surprise for his murder. Even if Mace plays a role later in the next two books, the show could easily have those roles filled by the Queen of Thorns, or other Tyrells.

[Winnief]

Has any brought up the idea that Mace Tyrell would take over as Regent/Hand, and then promptly be murdered by Varys? It would make sense timing wise, as he and Kevan arrive in Kings Landing at approximately the same time. And I think it would be hard for non-readers to remember Kevan, let alone muster any shock or surprise for his murder. Even if Mace plays a role later in the next two books, the show could easily have those roles filled by the Queen of Thorns, or other Tyrells.

Possibly...but Varys killed Kevan because the competent Kevan was actually starting to repair some of the damage caused by Cersei-from what we've seen of Mace he's unlikely to be a threat of that sort.

[zeppelincheetah]

I think the re-introduction of kevan won't be that big of a deal. Cersei "Oh hey uncle kevan" Unsullied audience: "oh ok gotcha"

[Brewmaster]

Possibly...but Varys killed Kevan because the competent Kevan was actually starting to repair some of the damage caused by Cersei-from what we've seen of Mace he's unlikely to be a threat of that sort.

I'd say Varys killed kevan and Pycelle because Aegon is making his move, not because he's particularly competent.

That said, I expect Kevan to show up for season 5.

[Damp Hair - The Prophet]

Do some of you even like this story?, because the call to cut (or merge) whole parts of it is really presumptuous and out of hand. So we get made up characters like Ros & Olyvar but no Dorne or Ironborn. Really? That's no longer an adaptation. Several significant characters will be dead by the end of Season 4. Do you think no new characters will be introduced in the next 3(+) seasons? That makes for stale TV. It's not ONLY about Dany & the Starks & the Lannisters. Oberyn is a huge hit, adding needed vitality to the cast. Euron or Vic or Arianne etc. will do the same. All POV characters have been on the show and the Greyjoys have four, plus a Big Bad. Arys oakheart is expendable. The Dorne & Ironborn can be done rather succinctly. A 5-10 min.Kingsmoot early S5 with familiar face Yara to intro new Greyjoys (+dragonhorn) & then Vic getting Moqorro & getting to Mereen is about all you'd need minimum. Doran & Ariane scheme around Myrcella wont take much time. The show spends a lot of time at King'sLandng but KL gets kinda boring/uneventful after this season. Quent could spice up Mereen story. What's really tricky is that GRRM barely killed a POV or significant character in about 2 books. Time for the end game and major deaths again.

[madscientist]

It depends heavily on which characters will be included on the show. This is my humble opinion on the levels of importance that the new characters have. I am excluding some of the AFFC characters because it is obvious that the showrunners will cut most of them anyway. Just think about Cersei's chapters; they introduce a good deal of people who have almost no relevance whatsoever. Also, those who have already been cast (Yllirio Mopatis, The Bloodraven, Kevan Lannister, Brown-Plumm, etc.) shall not be mentioned. Very minor characters such as Asha's soldiers, Stannis's knights, Ramsey's boys, Bravossi commoners, etc. are too excluded.

LEVEL 1 (MUST APPEAR : These are the characters whose absences would make the adaptation of the books almost impossible.)

Wyman Manderly, Victarion, Doran, Arianne, Jon Connington, Young Griff, and the Kindly man.

*The Sand Snakes have already been mentioned, but they should just receive the Frey daughters treatment ( a cameo would be enough).

*Characters like Mya Stone or Harry the Heir are necessary to give Sansa someone to interact with.

LEVEL 2 (These characters are important to the narrative, but some of them could just be merged or just hinted at to keep the show simple)

Val, Quentyn and his companions, Penny, Mance's family and spearwives, Jeyne Poole, the Freys at Winterfell (probably Hosteen or Aenys), Maege Mormont, Hugo Wull, Tytos Blackwood, Jonos Cracken, any captain of the Golden Company, Septa Lemore, Groleo, Haldon, Widow of the Waterfront,

* Euron or Aeron: In my opinion they should be merged into a character called " Euron ," but I would not mind if Aeron appears anyway.

* Mors Umber would make things confusing for show viewers. I hope they can get the guy who played the Greatjon to replace him.

* Wex is dead on the show, but someone has got to fill his spot.

* There are several Yunkaii leaders; one or two should be enough.

LEVEL 3 (Basically fan service for book readers, but it would be interesting to see them anyway)

Alys Karstark, Areo Hotah, Wun-Wun, Justin Massey, Devan Seaworth, Moqorro, Belwas, The Darkstar ( could just be a random guy), ColdHands, DuckField, Godric Borrell, Khrazz, Leaf

[Zombies That Were Promised]

^Very nice list. My only thought is Euron is most definitely a "Level 1" character. We just haven't read TWOW yet to know that.

[SarynStorm49]

I think that there is enough material in AFfC/ADwD for 1.5 seasons with some material from TWoW for a few characters (namely Bran, but others as well). So that's season 5 at least. By the time season 6 comes, which will be April 2016, there is actually a very good chance TWoW will have been released. D&D have access to GRRM and his general outlines, the book will almost be done, and they'll probably still have a little ADwD material left for the beginning of season 6, so they won't catch up there. Assuming that TWoW will be similar in length to the last few books, I think it's safe to say that TWoW could be the last half or 2/3 of season 6, and a decent chunk of season 7. So we'll get into ADoS territory by April 2017, but think that ADoS will spill into a season 8, which is still within their time frame. I think Martin actually is writing these last few much faster, and he said he had the ending pretty well outlined. AFfc/ADwD took so long because of the Mereeneese Knot and other narrative tangles to get the characters in place for the last two books. It might be safe to guess, even that ADoS may be shorter than some of the previous novels (ASoS) by a little bit. I think that even if the book isn't completely finished by 2017, when they'll be producing season 8, it'll be far enough along where the show will end pretty accurately, and the book and the show may drop close to the same time in 2018. Maybe they even shove the show back six months for the books to finish during one of the upcoming season's production break. But, in summation AFfC/ADwD gets 1.5 seasons, TWoW gets 1-1.5 seasons, and the same for ADoS for a total of an 8 season run.

[Blutrabe]

LEVEL 1 (MUST APPEAR : These are the characters whose absences would make the adaptation of the books almost impossible.)

Wyman Manderly, Victarion, Doran, Arianne, Jon Connington, Young Griff, and the Kindly man.

*The Sand Snakes have already been mentioned, but they should just receive the Frey daughters treatment ( a cameo would be enough).

*Characters like Mya Stone or Harry the Heir are necessary to give Sansa someone to interact with.

LEVEL 2 (These characters are important to the narrative, but some of them could just be merged or just hinted at to keep the show simple)

Val, Quentyn and his companions, Penny, Mance's family and spearwives, Jeyne Poole, the Freys at Winterfell (probably Hosteen or Aenys), Maege Mormont, Hugo Wull, Tytos Blackwood, Jonos Cracken, any captain of the Golden Company, Septa Lemore, Groleo, Haldon, Widow of the Waterfront,

* Euron or Aeron: In my opinion they should be merged into a character called " Euron ," but I would not mind if Aeron appears anyway.

* Mors Umber would make things confusing for show viewers. I hope they can get the guy who played the Greatjon to replace him.

* Wex is dead on the show, but someone has got to fill his spot.

* There are several Yunkaii leaders; one or two should be enough.

LEVEL 3 (Basically fan service for book readers, but it would be interesting to see them anyway)

Alys Karstark, Areo Hotah, Wun-Wun, Justin Massey, Devan Seaworth, Moqorro, Belwas, The Darkstar ( could just be a random guy), ColdHands, DuckField, Godric Borrell, Khrazz, Leaf

Wyman Manderly: I'm not so sure about him. Although I'd love to have him on the show as much as anyone, I think it doesn't look good: 1. Unless some random Ironborn man was hiding in the godswood, there is no one to tell him that Rickon is still alive. But even if he knows, he wouldn't know where he went. 2. Rickon and Osha went to Last Hearth, not Skagos. So why would Wyman need Davos to bring him back? So it looks like Davos' storyline will be vastly different on the show. Maybe he'll go to Last Hearth instead of White Harbour. But that would beg the question why the Umbers would keep Rickon a secret. I have no idea what the showrunners are going to do with this storyline.

I suppose Wyman could still show up at Winterfell to be a foil for the Freys. But that would make him a level 3 character.

The Sand Snakes: Without having read TWOW, there is no way of knowing how important they are. Nymeria and Tyene are going to King's Landing and Sarella is at the Citadel, so.... I'm sure the show will have Elia though. I suppose she will screw things up for Arianne.

Val/Dalla: Out. If they don't unexpectedly pop up this season, that is.

Quentyn: I think he'll be in. He is important to the Dorne storyline, plus his freeing the dragons can be put to good use in the Meereen storyline.

Penny: Out. Out. Out.

Jeyne Poole: Well, someone has to marry Ramsay...

Freys at Winterfell: Some minor characters, no more prominent than the Freys in S3.

Euron: In. But at this point I'm totally puzzled about the Ironborn storyline.

Aeron: Not really needed unless there is a kingsmoot. Although maybe he'll prove to be important later on.

Maege Mormont / Hugo Wull / Tytos Blackwood / Jonos Bracken / Septa Lemore / Groleo / Widow of the Waterfront: All out.

Captain of the GC: A minor character. Someone for Connington to negotiate with.

Haldon: Might be in as a minor character in Griff's crew.

Alys Karstark: Out.

Areo Hotah: In as Doran's henchman. But it's only a small part with few lines, if any.

Wun Wun: I hope he is in. It would be very interesting to have a giant at Castle Black. They can use Mag's actor with different makeup.

Justin Massey: If he is in or not depends on Arya's storyline, I think.

Devan Seaworth: There is absolutely no question about him, because Davos only had one son on the show!

Moqorro: I hope he stays in. It looks like he might become important.

Belwas: Seriously? There might be pit fighter called Belwas, but he'll never be a character in the story.

Darkstar: I have a feeling that they'll cut this particular storyline. But I haven't read TWOW.

Coldhands: There is no way he'll be introduced at this point.

Leaf: She is already confirmed!

I think that there is enough material in AFfC/ADwD for 1.5 seasons with some material from TWoW for a few characters (namely Bran, but others as well). So that's season 5 at least. By the time season 6 comes, which will be April 2016, there is actually a very good chance TWoW will have been released. D&D have access to GRRM and his general outlines, the book will almost be done, and they'll probably still have a little ADwD material left for the beginning of season 6, so they won't catch up there. Assuming that TWoW will be similar in length to the last few books, I think it's safe to say that TWoW could be the last half or 2/3 of season 6, and a decent chunk of season 7. So we'll get into ADoS territory by April 2017, but think that ADoS will spill into a season 8, which is still within their time frame. I think Martin actually is writing these last few much faster, and he said he had the ending pretty well outlined. AFfc/ADwD took so long because of the Mereeneese Knot and other narrative tangles to get the characters in place for the last two books. It might be safe to guess, even that ADoS may be shorter than some of the previous novels (ASoS) by a little bit. I think that even if the book isn't completely finished by 2017, when they'll be producing season 8, it'll be far enough along where the show will end pretty accurately, and the book and the show may drop close to the same time in 2018. Maybe they even shove the show back six months for the books to finish during one of the upcoming season's production break. But, in summation AFfC/ADwD gets 1.5 seasons, TWoW gets 1-1.5 seasons, and the same for ADoS for a total of an 8 season run.

I agree with you completely! I'm sure the show will go for eight seasons. They haven't ruled it out, and with the next books so big and the show so popular, I can't see it not happen.

[Frey Pies]

So, what will be the major events that need to be covered this season? My memory is a little fuzzy of these 2 books in comparison to the first three, but, off the top of my head, the memorable moments that I can think of are:

OMG moments:

- Daznakh's Pit

- "For the watch."

- Battle of Meereen (I think this needs to happen this season to give a satisfying conclusion)

- Tyrion/Jorah meet-up

- Brienne and LS (assuming it's not in 4.10)

- Winter is here

- Arya's Braavos arc

- Walk of Shame (I hope they leave out the trial by combat, and end the entire plot-line with this scene)

Cool moments:

- Wyman Manderly- the North remembers (I think this will be in, but I don't know how they will adapt Davos' storyline, since it has to be different)

- "Fire and Blood"- Doran speech

- Quentyn BBQ

- Ramsay and Theon in Winterfell

- Theon's escape from Winterfell

- Theon's meet with Yara (will provide a nice contrast to the scene from 4.06)

- Aegon reveal

- Connington and Co. taking the castle

- Kingsmoot

- Queenmaker

- Siege of Riverrun

- Varys killing Kevan

- "Edd, fetch me a block"

- Cersei and Margaery

Sansa and Bran will almost be entirely made up or from Winds (I predict the latter), so should be interesting!

Doesn't seem too good for 10 episodes, as most of them are to do with plots that were introduced later on, so the audience might be less invested. It will be extremely hard to adapt this season. Fingers crossed that it as triumphant as the ones that came before!

[The Eunuch]

I'm sure the show will go for eight seasons.

The added material at Craster's is a good proof that the showrunners don't want to rush the series in 7 seasons, like so many here thought. I was criticized when I launched this thread, but now it becomes more believable. Book 4 and 5 will not be adapted into one season, but more.

I stick to my first idea : season 5 will not end like book 5.

[SarynStorm49]

The added material at Craster's is a good proof that the showrunners don't want to rush the series in 7 seasons, like so many here thought. I was criticized when I launched this thread, but now it becomes more believable. Book 4 and 5 will not be adapted into one season, but more.

I stick to my first idea : season 5 will not end like book 5.

Agreed. I think season 5 covers all (or very nearly all) of AFfC, but the last third or so of ADwD will be in season 6. Obviously some characters (Bran,Sansa, etc.) will have some invented or TWoW material, but overall 8 seasons seems like the plan. Which makes total sense.

[Lccf]

I think that there is enough material in AFfC/ADwD for 1.5 seasons with some material from TWoW for a few characters (namely Bran, but others as well). So that's season 5 at least. By the time season 6 comes, which will be April 2016, there is actually a very good chance TWoW will have been released. D&D have access to GRRM and his general outlines, the book will almost be done, and they'll probably still have a little ADwD material left for the beginning of season 6, so they won't catch up there. Assuming that TWoW will be similar in length to the last few books, I think it's safe to say that TWoW could be the last half or 2/3 of season 6, and a decent chunk of season 7. So we'll get into ADoS territory by April 2017, but think that ADoS will spill into a season 8, which is still within their time frame. I think Martin actually is writing these last few much faster, and he said he had the ending pretty well outlined. AFfc/ADwD took so long because of the Mereeneese Knot and other narrative tangles to get the characters in place for the last two books. It might be safe to guess, even that ADoS may be shorter than some of the previous novels (ASoS) by a little bit. I think that even if the book isn't completely finished by 2017, when they'll be producing season 8, it'll be far enough along where the show will end pretty accurately, and the book and the show may drop close to the same time in 2018. Maybe they even shove the show back six months for the books to finish during one of the upcoming season's production break. But, in summation AFfC/ADwD gets 1.5 seasons, TWoW gets 1-1.5 seasons, and the same for ADoS for a total of an 8 season run.

I agree that the final book should be written faster : after all, GRRM knows the endgame since the start, and the destination is arguably easier to write than the journey. ( When I try to write something, I always find the first and last words to flow more easily. ) Who knows, he may very well have already written some of the final chapters years ago without revealing it. Not to mention, we should expect serious negative population growth in the final two books, so the POVS won't be all over the place like in AFFC and ADWD : I can see ADOS a little bit more linear and focused, like AGOT. ( Seriously, can you believe how straightforward that book is, compared to the other ones ? ) So I'd say the timeline you're suggesting is plausible.

[oierem]

The added material at Craster's is a good proof that the showrunners don't want to rush the series in 7 seasons, like so many here thought. I was criticized when I launched this thread, but now it becomes more believable. Book 4 and 5 will not be adapted into one season, but more.

It's not a proof at all. Except for The Wall and King's Landing and Arya, EVERY OTHER STORYLINE (Dany, Bran, Sansa, Brienne, Theon) is using material from books4/5 this season.

Regarding Craster's, it only happened because they wanted the battle of the Wall to take place in episode 9, and therefore they needed to create material for the rest of the season (which allows them to show Jon's transformation as a leader). That's it. It doesn't mean they want things to go slower. This season will contain all Jon's material from ASOS, but altered to create a huge battle episode.

Jon's Dance material can easily work in one season (in fact, it cannot work in two seasons). Cersei's Feast material can easily work in one season. Arya's material from both books is not enough for a season.

That's it. All the rest of the storylines are already using material from Feast and Dance, which makes it impossible to spend more than one season with their remaining material.

[relish5k]

I agree with you completely! I'm sure the show will go for eight seasons. They haven't ruled it out, and with the next books so big and the show so popular, I can't see it not happen.

I really hope they go for 8 seasons. In Vanity Fair they say 7 or 8, but 7 would feel rushed. Books 4 and 5 are far from my favorite, but many of the story lines can comfortably sustain 1.5 seasons of material (especially Kings Landing). Since I'm sure(/very optimistic) that books 6 and 7 will have massive amounts of pages and story, it's hard to imagine the showrunners squeezing that into just 1.5/2 seasons. Also, if there are only 7 seasons there is absolutely no chance that the last book will be out before the last season, with 8 seasons I have hope.

Cost/actor contracts will be issues probably, but as long as the show maintains its massive popularity there is reason to be optimistic!

[relish5k]

(I hope they leave out the trial by combat, and end the entire plot-line with this scene)

You mean Sir Robert Strong? I sure hope they don't leave him out! Not only do I think that's a cool twist (I like how the story gets more magical as it develops), but he's the only reason why Qyburn matters.

[oierem]

You mean Sir Robert Strong? I sure hope they don't leave him out! Not only do I think that's a cool twist (I like how the story gets more magical as it develops), but he's the only reason why Qyburn matters.

Is it a cool twist to lear that Martin is unable to kill (and not resurrect) any character anymore? What about "anyone can die"?

[Blutrabe]

Is it a cool twist to lear that Martin is unable to kill (and not resurrect) any character anymore? What about "anyone can die"?

Yes, I hope Jon is the last character to be revived.

[TheNorth's1stKnight]

it has to end with the night's watch betrayal leaving the audience with a total wtf moment