will Varys rescue Sansa from the Vale?

[Colonel Green]

and who says she can't make her own base in KL.

Logic. King's Landing isn't exactly rife with people sympathetic to House Stark, and you really can't conjure something from nothing, particularly if you're a prisoner that has nothing to trade with (which was one of the points of Sansa's initial stay there). Sansa's been placed in the Vale, the place where her father grew up, as an apprentice of sorts with the man who is in reality her family's greatest enemy, and is adjacent to what will be Westeros' last remaining uncommitted army, which contains many Stark supporters. The story possibilities there greatly exceed anything involving a return to King's Landing to be a prisoner again.

If Jon comes to KL with the dragons and the relam behind after R+L=J is revealed with the Others taken care of, then Sansa could be what Cersei uses to keep Jon from taking KL

First, that just makes Sansa a plot token, not a character. More importantly, there's no way the final conflict with the Others is going to be resolved before the "game of thrones" plot with Cersei.

[Good Guy Garlan]

How about she saves herself by eliminating the obvious threat to her, Littlefinger? I find this idea that someone will save Sansa quite laughable. Her being saved by someone is a regression to her character development.

This is a good point, but my speculation is that she's going to take over control of the Vale on her own, and the odds are in her favor for this:

- She's the only person the lord of the Eyrie listens to, as proven when she convinces him to ride down the basket and across the bridge

- She has dirt on many of the Vale lords, especially those in LF's pocket like Corbray

- She has a means to take Lothor Brune away from LF, by offering Mya Stone to him (didn't LF say that once you know what a man wants you know how to move him?)

- She could have the support of the Royces, by far the most powerful house in the Vale

- She has a hairnet full of Strangler

The way I see it, Shadrich and the others will just be new additions to her increasing list of advantages. Byron looks like he can be easily seduced, Shadrich could be bribed, and the other one is a wildcard, but that's two against one

So, after she takes control of the Vale, Shadrich could put her in touch with Varys to discuss a possible alliance.

That's my two cents anyway :dunno:

[Mithras]

How about she saves herself by eliminating the obvious threat to her, Littlefinger? I find this idea that someone will save Sansa quite laughable. Her being saved by someone is a regression to her character development.

She will save herself from LF by burying a dagger to his belly. But Shadrich will kidnap him her in the following turmoil and take her to KL to sell her to Cersei.

Cats liked the smell of Cat. Some days she would have a dozen trailing after her before the sun went down. From time to time the girl would throw an oyster at them and watch to see who came away with it. The biggest toms would seldom win, she noticed; oft as not, the prize went to some smaller, quicker animal, thin and mean and hungry. Her favorite was a scrawny old tom with a chewed ear who reminded her of a cat that she’d once chased all around the Red Keep. No, that was some other girl, not me.

“Hedge knights?” said Alayne, when the door had closed.

“Hungry knights."

Shadrich the Mad Mouse is a thin and mean animal. LF called him a hungry knight. Cats fight for the oyster Arya threw in the middle of them. Oyster is the prize. Sansa is described as a prize in the text.

I think these all mean that there will be a catfight to win the prize (Sansa). Biggest tomcats like Brienne and Yohn Royce will lose the contest and Shadrich will capture Sansa because he is a smaller, quicker animal, thin mean and hungry. I think Arya will chase that "cat" again all over in KL and this time she will cath him and take the prize.

[Good Guy Garlan]

She will save herself from LF by burying a dagger to his belly. But Shadrich will kidnap him in the following turmoil and take her to KL to sell her to Cersei.

That seems like quite a big leap for her and definetely not up her alley. I expect a more plausible and natural transformation for Sansa, more in line with her abilities and capacities as presented so far.

Not saying it can't happen, but I personally don't see it. Like, that's what Arya would do, and I think Sansa's rise and LF's downfall would be more subtle than a knife in the gut, like beating him at his own game

[MyLittleFinger]

Rescue... :rofl: :rofl:

Oh ya, I guess we still believe that Varys is great because he told a dude in a cell that he "serves the realm." Yet Baelish is evil incarnate because he rescued Sansa from Joffrey by not only making the Tyrell-Lannister superpac, but by whisking her away where she would have been executed alongside Tyrion had she not gotten out.

[Fire Eater]

Logic. King's Landing isn't exactly rife with people sympathetic to House Stark, and you really can't conjure something from nothing, particularly if you're a prisoner that has nothing to trade with (which was one of the points of Sansa's initial stay there). Sansa's been placed in the Vale, the place where her father grew up, as an apprentice of sorts with the man who is in reality her family's greatest enemy, and is adjacent to what will be Westeros' last remaining uncommitted army, which contains many Stark supporters. The story possibilities there greatly exceed anything involving a return to King's Landing to be a prisoner again.

Sansa still has likely friends amongst Margaery and her clique. Sansa is a prisoner at the Eyrie as well with nothing to trade with, but she seems to be doing fine, and I think might win Brune away by helping him with Mya. She can make a few friends amongst servants there.

First, that just makes Sansa a plot token, not a character. More importantly, there's no way the final conflict with the Others is going to be resolved before the "game of thrones" plot with Cersei.

Making her a plot token? That only makes sense if you ignore her entire story up to that point. How can you be so sure the Others are going to be dealt with after Cersei? They are up north, and the Wall won't likely fall for a while. Dany may likely head North before going to KL to subdue the Starks.

[Mithras]

That seems like quite a big leap for her and definetely not up her alley. I expect a more plausible and natural transformation for Sansa, more in line with her abilities and capacities as presented so far.

Not saying it can't happen, but I personally don't see it. Like, that's what Arya would do, and I think Sansa's rise and LF's downfall would be more subtle than a knife in the gut, like beating him at his own game

One of the first lessons Sansa learned from LF:

“Tell me, Alayne—which is more dangerous, the dagger brandished by an enemy, or the hidden one pressed to your back by someone you never even see?”

“The hidden dagger.”

“There’s a clever girl.”

And a foreshadowing from Cersei POV:

“And these lords of the declaration, do they appeal to the king to take a hand?”

“They do not.”

This was how an enemy should be dealt with: with a dagger, not a declaration.

[MyLittleFinger]

Sansa still has likely friends amongst Margaery and her clique. Sansa is a prisoner at the Eyrie as well with nothing to trade with, but she seems to be doing fine, and I think might win Brune away by helping him with Mya. She can make a few friends amongst servants there.

Making her a plot token? That only makes sense if you ignore her entire story up to that point. How can you be so sure the Others are going to be dealt with after Cersei? They are up north, and the Wall won't likely fall for a while. Dany may likely head North before going to KL to subdue the Starks.

I'm glad we're taking Mya Stone's agency to be into who she wants away from her and defining people who abandoned her the moment she lost her claim and never spoke a word to her again as "friends."

[Good Guy Garlan]

One of the first lessons Sansa learned from LF:

“Tell me, Alayne—which is more dangerous, the dagger brandished by an enemy, or the hidden one pressed to your back by someone you never even see?”

“The hidden dagger.”

“There’s a clever girl.”

And a foreshadowing from Cersei POV:

“And these lords of the declaration, do they appeal to the king to take a hand?”

“They do not.”

This was how an enemy should be dealt with: with a dagger, not a declaration.

I think LF was talking about a metaphorical dagger, not an actual one. As for the foreshadowing, there could be lots of it, but if it doesn't make sense for a character then it's not gonna fly

[VisenyaLives]

I think in the end Sansa will be so fed up with being arranged for marriage. She knows no one will want to marry her for love. She might just end up Lady of (blank).....or even an old lady with a bunch of stray cats living together.

[John Hulboy]

I enjoy new theories varys had plenty of chances too help Sansa and her father an didn't do anything.i believe he has tyrek hidden away to maybe be one of aegons representative in the west..I think shad rich May try something but I think the hound or her uncle Blackfish May show up in vale.sansa story is gonna be interesting.

[Mithras]

I enjoy new theories varys had plenty of chances too help Sansa and her father an didn't do anything.i believe he has tyrek hidden away to maybe be one of aegons representative in the west..I think shad rich May try something but I think the hound or her uncle Blackfish May show up in vale.sansa story is gonna be interesting.

Yeah, he organized the riot and kidnapped Tyrek for future use as a puppet Lannister Lord as well as a witness of the strongwine plot to kill Robert. But he later killed the boy as Tyrion was much more useful than Tyrek.