Starspear Posted April 18, 2014 Author Share Posted April 18, 2014 Trying to prove your point with lame insults and wikipedia is just sad. If it makes you feel better you WIN congrats. Now that feeling in your gut, thats emo.I shamefully admit I'm not an expert on genetics in Westeros. I'm just a plain old user of common sense, and silly of me for thinking his name being Gerold DAYNE means he has a dad who isn't a Martell. I have to go reread my high school science books then have a serious chat with my dad about who my real dad may be. I better go and learn something! Wow, you insult Wikipedia. That is a sign of intelligence. Congratulations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starspear Posted April 18, 2014 Author Share Posted April 18, 2014 TBHH, don't feel bad... Especially because of these nonsensical claims, disproved by logic that many posters here pointed out. The lame insults and condescending tone can't compensate the lack of textual evidence for OP's claims. You either don't understand the subtext (like apparently I don't) or you don't know genetics. Never mind the fact that half of every girl's gene pool came from Oberyn. That is not as important as Y chromosome. That is sexism meets science... And not to mention utterly wrong. Even if Y chromosome comes from another person, part of Oberyn's genetic pool will be in that child ipso facto Oberyn would live through his daughter's children. And discussing the genetics in ASOIAF is like pissing into the wind... Let me clarify for you. I did not bring genetics to the table till an accusation was made of sexism. You say: Never mind the fact that half of every girl's gene pool came from Oberyn. That is not as important as Y chromosome. That is sexism meets science... You are letting sociological mores affecting science... there is no sexism here. There's a reason for male heirs vs. non-male heirs. In fact, it makes up for a few chapters in AGOT. Never did I demean or deny genetic material... I'm debating ignorance which you and your ally seem to enjoy. You can run and hide all you want, but the simple genetics discussed in this post are inherent in all worlds which have to do with humans. There is no judgement of what is good or bad (as you seem to add to the subject). It is colorless. If there is sexism here, it is coming from you, as you feel somehow like something is less than by denying facts. This is entirely in your mind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starspear Posted April 18, 2014 Author Share Posted April 18, 2014 Trying to prove your point with lame insults and wikipedia is just sad. If it makes you feel better you WIN congrats. Now that feeling in your gut, thats emo.I shamefully admit I'm not an expert on genetics in Westeros. I'm just a plain old user of common sense, and silly of me for thinking his name being Gerold DAYNE means he has a dad who isn't a Martell. I have to go reread my high school science books then have a serious chat with my dad about who my real dad may be. I better go and learn something!And here's additional irony. You insult wikia.... and yet you post and participate in this forum (asoiaf wikia)... how hypocritical is that? There are references to the article that I sent you. You are welcome to read from the sources. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mladen Posted April 18, 2014 Share Posted April 18, 2014 Let me clarify for you. I did not bring genetics to the table till an accusation was made of sexism. You say: Never mind the fact that half of every girl's gene pool came from Oberyn. That is not as important as Y chromosome. That is sexism meets science... You are letting sociological mores affecting science... there is no sexism here. There's a reason for male heirs vs. non-male heirs. In fact, it makes up for a few chapters in AGOT. Never did I demean or deny genetic material... I'm debating ignorance which you and your ally seem to enjoy. You can run and hide all you want, but the simple genetics discussed in this post are inherent in all worlds which have to do with humans. There is no judgement of what is good or bad (as you seem to add to the subject). It is colorless. If there is sexism here, it is coming from you, as you feel somehow like something is less than by denying facts. This is entirely in your mind. No. The ignorance you enjoy is simply far greater than ours... You argue that Oberyn's daughters can't carry Y chromosome, which is essentially correct. But, the half of their gene pool came from Oberyn. 23 of 46 chromosomes in human body came from one parent, in this case Oberyn. The Y chromosome is one of the 23, and even of their X chromosomes came from Oberyn. Certainly that some of Oberyn's gene pool will be lost, but that would happen with or without male heir. And certainly that Y-chromosome haplogroup can't be transferred through female parent, but that is not entire gene pool, and you behave like it is. Oberyn will live through his heirs, his daughters and their children given the fact that each of them will have portion of his gene pool, therefore "he will live through them". His line doesn't end if he has no heirs. It is very patriarchal and scientifically disproved view on things. And, alas, how did we come to this? The genetics in ASOIAF is not something scientifically correct given that parentage is questioned by the color of the hair. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starspear Posted April 18, 2014 Author Share Posted April 18, 2014 . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Broke Howard Hughes Posted April 18, 2014 Share Posted April 18, 2014 No. The ignorance you enjoy is simply far greater than ours... You argue that Oberyn's daughters can't carry Y chromosome, which is essentially correct. But, the half of their gene pool came from Oberyn. 23 of 46 chromosomes in human body came from one parent, in this case Oberyn. The Y chromosome is one of the 23, and even of their X chromosomes came from Oberyn. Certainly that some of Oberyn's gene pool will be lost, but that would happen with or without male heir. And certainly that Y-chromosome haplogroup can't be transferred through female parent, but that is not entire gene pool, and you behave like it is. Oberyn will live through his heirs, his daughters and their children given the fact that each of them will have portion of his gene pool, therefore "he will live through them". His line doesn't end if he has no heirs. It is very patriarchal and scientifically disproved view on things. And, alas, how did we come to this? The genetics in ASOIAF is not something scientifically correct given that parentage is questioned by the color of the hair.I had to stop responding to Starspear. No point I make that questions theirs will be answered with anything legitimate, just insults. It occurs to me I'm wasting my time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starspear Posted April 18, 2014 Author Share Posted April 18, 2014 No. The ignorance you enjoy is simply far greater than ours... You argue that Oberyn's daughters can't carry Y chromosome, which is essentially correct. But, the half of their gene pool came from Oberyn. 23 of 46 chromosomes in human body came from one parent, in this case Oberyn. The Y chromosome is one of the 23, and even of their X chromosomes came from Oberyn. Certainly that some of Oberyn's gene pool will be lost, but that would happen with or without male heir. And certainly that Y-chromosome haplogroup can't be transferred through female parent, but that is not entire gene pool, and you behave like it is. Oberyn will live through his heirs, his daughters and their children given the fact that each of them will have portion of his gene pool, therefore "he will live through them". His line doesn't end if he has no heirs. It is very patriarchal and scientifically disproved view on things. And, alas, how did we come to this? The genetics in ASOIAF is not something scientifically correct given that parentage is questioned by the color of the hair. A man only exists because of the Y chromosome. That is the single thing that makes him a man (biologically). You throw around all these words: patriarchal, sexism, make these false-accusations that I dismiss the Sand Snakes' heritage, put words in my mouth over and over... You hate men it seems.... maybe hate too strong a word. But you have bias. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maester_Withoutchains Posted April 18, 2014 Share Posted April 18, 2014 why is it that most of the forum posts are people coming up with theories that they are the only ones that see them. if you want to believe one character is another characters son that is fine. but it is way to much effort. GRRM is not writing a detective series like Arthur Conan Doyle. have fun debating but honestly if you are going to defend posts it best to do by quotes from the text. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon's Queen Consort Posted April 18, 2014 Share Posted April 18, 2014 Also, why in God's name would Oberyn hide his son? After all, he recognized all his daughters... Easy, when he saw Dorkstar he claimed that he doesn't make boys and he wants a DNA test at the end he was like that when he heard "In the case of 20+ yo Dorkstar, Oberyn YOU ARE NOT THE FATHER!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starspear Posted April 18, 2014 Author Share Posted April 18, 2014 Easy, when he saw Dorkstar he claimed that he doesn't make boys and he wants a DNA test at the end he was like that when he heard "In the case of 20+ yo Dorkstar, Oberyn YOU ARE NOT THE FATHER!" That's actually funny. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starspear Posted April 18, 2014 Author Share Posted April 18, 2014 . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mladen Posted April 18, 2014 Share Posted April 18, 2014 I had to stop responding to Sunspear. No point I make that questions theirs will be answered with anything legitimate, just insults. It occurs to me I'm wasting my time. Sadly, I have to agree... No matter that many people pointed out his misunderstanding of the subtext, used language and even scientific data, he continues this rant with insults. I have been too nice in the beginning pointing out all the numerous inconsistencies many others here pointed out: from the fact Oberyn would recognize his son, to the fact that Darkstar has known last name, Dornish acceptance of bastards etc. Even the theory about Ashara has been disproved. So, yeah, I think it's time to just stop wasting my time on nonsensical theories. Easy, when he saw Dorkstar he claimed that he doesn't make boys and he wants a DNA test at the end he was like that when he heard "In the case of 20+ yo Dorkstar, Oberyn YOU ARE NOT THE FATHER!" Nice... But not the point. He would have accepted him as a baby, just as he did with his other daughters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon's Queen Consort Posted April 18, 2014 Share Posted April 18, 2014 Nice... But not the point. He would have accepted him as a baby, just as he did with his other daughters. I agree that he doesn't seem the guy that would had left a child that there was a possibility that was his, I just tried to be funny. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starspear Posted April 18, 2014 Author Share Posted April 18, 2014 I had to stop responding to Starspear. No point I make that questions theirs will be answered with anything legitimate, just insults. It occurs to me I'm wasting my time. If you began by presenting legitimate questions, you would have a legitimate response. But you are correct, we are wasting time with each other. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starspear Posted April 18, 2014 Author Share Posted April 18, 2014 . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starspear Posted April 18, 2014 Author Share Posted April 18, 2014 I agree that he doesn't seem the guy that would had left a child that there was a possibility that was his, I just tried to be funny. You tried and succeeded. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon's Queen Consort Posted April 18, 2014 Share Posted April 18, 2014 You tried and succeeded. Thank you :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mladen Posted April 18, 2014 Share Posted April 18, 2014 I agree that he doesn't seem the guy that would had left a child that there was a possibility that was his, I just tried to be funny. I know my friend, but this thread had so many logical fallacies that funny link can mislead into wrong direction. Here was argued that Oberyn wouldn't recognize Darkstar because he didn't like him as a person, but as you and I both know, Oberyn would have recognized him long before Darkstar would become "of the night" child-killing douche-bag. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starspear Posted April 18, 2014 Author Share Posted April 18, 2014 I know my friend, but this thread had so many logical fallacies that funny link can mislead into wrong direction. Here was argued that Oberyn wouldn't recognize Darkstar because he didn't like him as a person, but as you and I both know, Oberyn would have recognized him long before Darkstar would become "of the knight" child-killing douche-bag. Incorrect: He is not "of the knight" - but "of the night" Correct: He is a child-killing douche. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starspear Posted April 18, 2014 Author Share Posted April 18, 2014 . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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