Oberyn lives through his only son.

[JonCon's Red Beard]

Well, Barristan refers to her as maid, and later he speaks about Stark dishonoring her (in translation: deflowered her). So, I would assume yes, but it's not set in stone. We don't know how exactly was she old. If she was like 12,13, I would assume she was a maiden, older, anything is open...

I shouldn't have laughed at this :lol:

But yes, we don't know, like anything that happened prior RR.

[Mladen]

Yes - we won't agree, that much is clear. I do suggest that you read subtext... and also not believe POV thoughts. Selmy's thoughts and Tyrion's thoughts are their thoughts not the facts of the GRRM universe. If Barristan Selmy remembers something, that is his subjective truth, not objective truth.

With the risk of sounding like arrogant A-hole, I am sorry, but I do know how to read the subtext. I have analyzed ASOIAF extensively in the past years and some of my essays about the subtext can be found all over the board. So, thanks for the advice, but you are simply wrong. Your theory has no foundation in logic, is based on two lines that can have rather different meaning and nothing you have said since the opening post made me actually even consider the idea for a second. I have read some great theories around here, this, alas, isn't one of them.

[Starspear]

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[Starspear]

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[JonCon's Red Beard]

^I wasn't defending nor stating something, just expressing my opinion. Do I have bases to know he's not his son? Nope. I just think he's not. For instance, why wouldn't Oberyn mention anything? If he thinks he's an idiot, I don't think he realises when he was in diapers, it probably took him years to be disliked by the Viper. And in the meanwhile, everybody would have known he's his son. Wouldn't he tell anyone he has a boy?

[Starspear]

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[danm_999]

Woah. I never realised Darkstar was Oberyn's son. But it makes sense, calling him a viper can only mean he's literally Oberyn's son, and not another use of a generic animal insult to indicate someone's distrustworthiness and evil that we see repeatedly throughout the series.

And now that I think about it, I think I've found some more of Oberyn's children using this!

“Would you prefer Black Ears? I’ll give you Chella if a woman would make you more at ease.”
“Please, no, my lord, the wildlings frighten me.”
He grinned. “Me as well. But more to the point, they frighten Joffrey and that nest of sly vipers and lickspittle dogs he calls a Kingsguard.

Woah! Oberyn fathered the Kingsguard?!?

Cersei reared up like a viper. “Your place is where my brother says it is,” she spit. “The Hand speaks with the king’s own voice, and
disobedience is treason.”

And Tyrion indicates Cersei is too! She even spits like a viper would!

Ser Rodrik never gave him the chance to finish. “Viper,” the knight declared, his face red with rage beneath those white whiskers. “I gave
you the chance to save your men and die with some small shred of honor, Turncloak. I should have known that was too much to ask of a
childkiller.” His hand went to the hilt of his sword. “I ought cut you down here and now and put an end to your lies and deceits. By the gods,
I should.”

Theon Martell!

In the viper’s pit that was Meereen, honor seemed as silly as a fool’s motley.

Holy hell Oberyn fathered a city!

[ladysnowheart]

GRRM has work to do to make this character relevant, I'll grant you that. Maiming a little girl (if the he-said-she-said is to be believed) is lame. We'll see. The mystery around the Daynes is cool... but if he doesn't reveal more, it'll be just be background noise and in some cases, distracting background noise.

smells like a red hering to me... another pretty boy for arianne to daydream about

[Starspear]

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[Dany Girl]

What's Oberyn's motivation for never claiming Darkstar as a child? He's claimed every one of his daughters, why would he not claim his son.

And for Darkstar to have some animosity twords Oberyn, he'd have to know the truth, and where's the indication that he does?

Darkstar is a Dayne of High Hermitage, in fact he appears to be heir, so why would a Dayne accept a Martell bastard as their heir? That makes no sense.

Dorne is one of the few places in Westeros where being a bastard isn't a big deal, so why pass him off as trueborn?

I'm sorry, but I just don't see the logic here. Oberyn seems to be an awesome dad who truly cares for his daughters, why would he set a son out in the cold, so to speak? It honestly doesn't fit with what we know of his personality.

All of Darkstar's anger seems to be directed at Arthur and the Sword of the Morning title. I wonder if the fact that he's only a cadet branch member means he can't inherit Dawn? If he's a good with a sword as he claims to be, and a Dayne, he likely feels Dawn should be his. But as an ancestral sword of the main family, I don't see them passing it to a cadet branch. That is enough motivation to make Darkstar angry and bitter, no need for a secret parent.

And the secret parent thing is getting way over played.

[Starspear]

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[Starspear]

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[Dany Girl]

We know about Oberyn's Sand Snakes because of tidbits in ASOS... then a bit more in AFFC... then a bit more in ADWD... the clues are being planted for Darkstar... that is my position. They are planted in AFFC and ADWD.

They "Why" cannot be answered or stated with confidence as it is simply not stated... but the character's psychology clearly elicits mystery... and that is good storytelling.

The kinship is a solid position. Of course, it is fallible until GRRM explicitly states... but the clues are extremely solid.

I don't think the kinship is at all a solid position, because it's contradicted by Oberyn's actions. He claims 7 daughters, but won't claim his son? I just don't personally find that believable. But, I won't say it's completely out of the realm of poss either, I just can't imagine why it would make sense to not claim 1 kid but claim 7 others.

[PrinceHenryris]

I wouldn't put it past Oberyn.

We know that Gerold is from a cadet branch of House Dayne.

When was House Dayne of Starfall established? It could have been established when Oberyn fathered Gerold on an unknown Dayne.

Maybe, when he fathered him on a daughter of House Dayne of High Hermitage, and let him be named a Dayne so he could inherit? Even in the modern world, it's not unheard of for a son to take his mother's more renowned name.

While I'm not arguing "yes or no", I concede the possibility.

[Starspear]

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[PrinceHenryris]

What's Oberyn's motivation for never claiming Darkstar as a child? He's claimed every one of his daughters, why would he not claim his son.

And for Darkstar to have some animosity twords Oberyn, he'd have to know the truth, and where's the indication that he does?

Darkstar is a Dayne of High Hermitage, in fact he appears to be heir, so why would a Dayne accept a Martell bastard as their heir? That makes no sense.

Dorne is one of the few places in Westeros where being a bastard isn't a big deal, so why pass him off as trueborn?

I'm sorry, but I just don't see the logic here. Oberyn seems to be an awesome dad who truly cares for his daughters, why would he set a son out in the cold, so to speak? It honestly doesn't fit with what we know of his personality.

All of Darkstar's anger seems to be directed at Arthur and the Sword of the Morning title. I wonder if the fact that he's only a cadet branch member means he can't inherit Dawn? If he's a good with a sword as he claims to be, and a Dayne, he likely feels Dawn should be his. But as an ancestral sword of the main family, I don't see them passing it to a cadet branch. That is enough motivation to make Darkstar angry and bitter, no need for a secret parent.

And the secret parent thing is getting way over played.

It seems to me that female bastards are treated better than male bastards.

[Starspear]

I don't think the kinship is at all a solid position, because it's contradicted by Oberyn's actions. He claims 7 daughters, but won't claim his son? I just don't personally find that believable. But, I won't say it's completely out of the realm of poss either, I just can't imagine why it would make sense to not claim 1 kid but claim 7 others.

He has 8 Sand Snakes, not 7.

[Starspear]

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[danm_999]

He has 8 Sand Snakes, not 7.

Also, here's another potential clue. All the Sand Snakes are said to have Oberyn's eyes. Read the description of Oberyn's eyes.... then read the description of Darkstar's eyes.

Black eyes v purple eyes?

[Starspear]

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