Jon will end up with Margaery?

[six]

He will end up with Val. There's foreshadowing for it all over the place.

There's way more foreshadowing he'll end up with Dany. I think the whole Val thing is blown out of proportion by Val's fans. I can't stand her tbh, I think she's one of grrm's worst characters, she doesn't even seem his, just straight out of fanfiction.

As for Margaery, I really doubt it.

[KINGpanther]

She isn't even wearing shoes in the passage, and it wasn't described as a pebble. She has to acknowledge Jon as king if she knows Jon is the rightful Targaryen heir, otherwise she would be no better than Robert as she knows.

Or Renly.

[Lyse Stark]

There's way more foreshadowing he'll end up with Dany. I think the whole Val thing is blown out of proportion by Val's fans. I can't stand her tbh, I think she's one of grrm's worst characters, she doesn't even seem his, just straight out of fanfiction.

As for Margaery, I really doubt it.

You forget that the sweetness in Dany's arc often has negative connotations. So the sweetness in the blue rose can mean that Jon won't be her lover, but a indirect cause of her death.

Why would GRRM put such thing in there?

It's quite simple; Jon's parentage has been concealed by lies. And in Dany's arc, sweetness often conceals lies, poison or death. When the truth come out that Dany's not the heir to the Iron Throne, it may end up make her ever more depressed. She'll die in childbirth, her resolve broken by the fact that she was living a lie.

[Jon's Queen Consort]

There's way more foreshadowing he'll end up with Dany. I think the whole Val thing is blown out of proportion by Val's fans. I can't stand her tbh, I think she's one of grrm's worst characters, she doesn't even seem his, just straight out of fanfiction.

As for Margaery, I really doubt it.

Really? Please enlighten me. Or you mean the blue flower at the Wall which is one clue, if it is a clue at all.

[jet199]

Well Jon is associated with thorns/Thornes as well as blue roses so it wouldn't surprise be if he butts heads with Olenna, maybe indirectly, at some point.

[six]

You forget that the sweetness in Dany's arc often has negative connotations. So the sweetness in the blue rose can mean that Jon won't be her lover, but a indirect cause of her death.

Why would GRRM put such thing in there?

It's quite simple; Jon's parentage has been concealed by lies. And in Dany's arc, sweetness often conceals lies, poison or death. When the truth come out that Dany's not the heir to the Iron Throne, it may end up make her ever more depressed. She'll die in childbirth, her resolve broken by the fact that she was living a lie.

I don't think one thing negates the other. He could be both her lover and the reason she ends up dead. But to negate there's no foreshadowing for something major to happen with those two, is just wishful thinking.

Really? Please enlighten me. Or you mean the blue flower at the Wall which is one clue, if it is a clue at all.

It's off topic so I'm not going to go on a detailed discussion of the very lengthy evidence that foreshadows Dany/Jon all throughout the books. I know many don't want it to happen, personally I'm not too thrilled either, but if the choice is between mary sue Val and 3D Dany I'd rather a romance with an interesting and compelling female character. Hell, even Margaery would be better for Jon than Val.

Also, I know the show has its own canon to a degree, but they're in season 4 and Val is nowhere to be seen and no actress has been cast in the role. If the showrunners who know the ending feel they can cut her out or heavily reduce her arc if she only pops up in season 5, it's likely she doesn't have much of a role in the books either.

Well Jon is associated with thorns/Thornes as well as blue roses so it wouldn't surprise be if he butts heads with Olenna, maybe indirectly, at some point.

Maybe we should speculate on whether Jon and Olenna will hook up ;)

[Jon's Queen Consort]

It's off topic so I'm not going to go on a detail discussion of the very lengthy evidence that foreshadows Dany/Jon all throughout the books.

Even if you wanted I am almost sure that you couldn't because there are any clues. The only thing that someone could claim that is a clue is the "a blue flower growing from a chink in a wall of ice filling the air with sweetness" which is most probably bs because it refers to Lyanna and Jon not Dany and Jon.

Also, I know the show has its own canon to a degree, but they're in season 4 and Val is nowhere to be seen and no actress has been cast in the role. If the showrunners who know the ending feel they can cut her out or heavily reduce her arc if she only pops up in season 5, it's likely she doesn't have much of a role in the books either.

Do you have seen the next seasons too and know everything about casting :eek:

Also you should know TV's canon=/=books'canon.

[Hippocras]

Honestly, I don't think there is strong "foreshadowing" in any direction regarding Jon eventually marrying anyone. People use that word to attach way too much significance to details where none exists.

The blue rose at the wall is a hint at Jon's parentage. It is not a romantic clue. It simply means that Jon will eventually be involved with Dany's story. He IS the blue rose, and it is his symbol because it is the symbol of the union of his parents.

Jon has enjoyed his conversations with Val? So what? He also had a great dynamic with Alys Karstark. I am sure he will get along great with Asha too. Frankly he had the same kinds of joking and respectful conversations with Tyrion as he does with Val, but no one is saying Tyrion is his soul mate. None of these women are going to leave the friend zone.

IF he is somehow free of his vows he MIGHT marry someone, and who it will be will depend on what his role will be. King? Maybe Arianne. Lord of Winterfell? Maybe a Manderly or Mormont. Hero of the Wall? No one.

[six]

Even if you wanted I am almost sure that you couldn't because there are any clues.

Lol, ok dude, as long as you're sure of it.

Do you have seen the next seasons too and know everything about casting :eek:

Also you should know TV's canon=/=books'canon.

IF she pops up in season 5 then we'll see, I guess. I think it's telling that the whole Mance/Dalla/Val thing got no screen time so far, and Ygritte got an awful lot though. I think that if Val was meant to be very important she would have been in this season, at least.

And while I agree that show!canon and book!canon are different, they're not black/white different because the major events are retained. So I'm sure that if a character is meant to have a big impact in the books then he/she will appear in the show, too. There's no way that if Val is actually meant to be Jon's queen she won't be heavily featured in the show, because it would change the ending. And we know that while the show will have a less detailed ending than the books, it's grrm and asoiaf ending nonetheless.

Honestly, I don't think there is strong "foreshadowing" in any direction regarding Jon eventually marrying anyone. People use that word to attach way too much significance to details where none exists.

The blue rose at the wall is a hint at Jon's parentage. It is not a romantic clue. It simply means that Jon will eventually be involved with Dany's story. He IS the blue rose, and it is his symbol because it is the symbol of the union of his parents.

Jon has enjoyed his conversations with Val? So what? He also had a great dynamic with Alys Karstark. I am sure he will get along great with Asha too. Frankly he had the same kinds of joking and respectful conversations with Tyrion as he does with Val, but no one is saying Tyrion is his soul mate. None of these women are going to leave the friend zone.

That's what I was trying to say tbh. I'm not advocating for Jon/Dany as it's not like I ship them (I enjoy both characters in their own right, separately), just that if we have to argue foreshadowing for Jon/Val there's plenty more for Jon/Dany, if people want to read it that way. Still, it's undeniable Jon and Dany's stories are meant to collide in a big way, and will impact each other a lot.

But yeah, your last point.

[Jon's Queen Consort]

Lol, ok dude, as long as you're sure of it.

Not really, it's more like as long as we have clues for it you were the one who claimed that "There's way more foreshadowing he'll end up with Dany" that is why I am asking which foreshadowings. Now if you just don't have any then you could just said it. Also I believe that you should improve your attitude I am not a "dude" so I don't want to be referred like that.

\IF she pops up in season 5 then we'll see, I guess. I think it's telling that the whole Mance/Dalla/Val thing got no screen time so far, and Ygritte got an awful lot though. I think that if Val was meant to be very important she would have been in this season, at least.

:bs: Val's role is more prominent in Dance, why she should appear now?

Also this is the bookforum, TV belongs to TVforum.

[six]

Not really, it's more like as long as we have clues for it you were the one who claimed that "There's way more foreshadowing he'll end up with Dany" that is why I am asking which foreshadowings. Now if you just don't have any then you could just said it.

I never said I don't. I said, and it's written so you can go back and read it again, that it's OT so I'm not going to. If I stumble on a thread about Jon/Dany then I might. You're coming to your own conclusion to suit your argument.

Also I believe that you should improve your attitude I am not a "dude" so I don't want to be referred like that.

Oh come off it, it was in jest. I didn't call you names, I used dude as an interjection, like using "man" or "mate".

And I'm not discussing the show? I'm making a point, using the show as a reference. Big difference. Anyway, it's off topic and you seem to be annoyed I disagree with you, so let's just agree to disagree.

[Jon's Queen Consort]

I never said I don't. I said, and it's written so you can go back and read it again, that it's OT so I'm not going to. If I stumble on a thread about Jon/Dany then I might. You're coming to your own conclusion to suit your argument.

You said that there were more foreshadowing for Dany than Val and I asked about which those would be. Simple as that.

Oh come off it, it was in jest. I didn't call you names, I used dude as an interjection, like using "man" or "mate".

I don't really care, I don't like it.

And I'm not discussing the show? I'm making a point, using the show as a reference. Big difference. Anyway, it's off topic and you seem to be annoyed I disagree with you, so let's just agree to disagree.

By your logic Jeyne never married Robb because that is what the show tell us.

[The Mad Wolf]

Margery is the real "Kingslayer". :)

😂😂😂 yes

[six]

You said that there were more foreshadowing for Dany than Val and I asked about which those would be. Simple as that.

Yes, and I answered you that I'm not going to go into details because it's off topic to this thread, yet you keep insisting on disagreeing with me, which I'm sure no one is interested in reading. I asked you to agree to disagree, right? Just drop it.

By your logic Jeyne never married Robb because that is what the show tell us.

By my logic Robb not marrying Jeyne just means Jeyne won't have a big role in the upcoming books, so the change doesn't impact the bigger plot. But again, we're still discussing something off topic.

[Jon's Queen Consort]

Yes, and I answered you that I'm not going to go into details because it's off topic to this thread, yet you keep insisting on disagreeing with me, which I'm sure no one is interested in reading. I asked you to agree to disagree, right? Just drop it.

Mmmm no.

By my logic Robb not marrying Jeyne just means Jeyne won't have a big role in the upcoming books, so the change doesn't impact the bigger plot. But again, we're still discussing something off topic.

Which is silly.

[six]

Mmmm no.

Which is silly.

Ok.

[Eyron Stark]

The no marriage or love for Jon thing irritates me when people bring it up. Jon's just been Ides of March'd by his black brothers. I think death and betrayal by the very institution that he's sworn vows to completely makes his vows of celibacy NULL. I still think he'll protect the Wall, only with the wildings. What's the best way to form alliances? Marriage. As we've seen, Dallas is married to Mance, so I don't think Val would be all that opposed to marrying Jon.

I doubt GRRM is killing off Jon. Each of the Stark children have been pushed to their limits to enable the full capacity of their warging. Arya blind, Jon near death so he wargs in to Ghost.

[Hippocras]

The no marriage or love for Jon thing irritates me when people bring it up. Jon's just been Ides of March'd by his black brothers. I think death and betrayal by the very institution that he's sworn vows to completely makes his vows of celibacy NULL. I still think he'll protect the Wall, only with the wildings. What's the best way to form alliances? Marriage. As we've seen, Dallas is married to Mance, so I don't think Val would be all that opposed to marrying Jon.

I doubt GRRM is killing off Jon. Each of the Stark children have been pushed to their limits to enable the full capacity of their warging. Arya blind, Jon near death so he wargs in to Ghost.

I think this is short-sighted though because it assumes his entire future in these books will be in the North, and that the current need for wildling alliances will take precedence over other future required alliances.

If he does marry Val, I would take that as a sign Val would die not long after, because Jon, in future, will not be only about the North.

[Pod The Rod]

The no marriage or love for Jon thing irritates me when people bring it up. Jon's just been Ides of March'd by his black brothers. I think death and betrayal by the very institution that he's sworn vows to completely makes his vows of celibacy NULL. I still think he'll protect the Wall, only with the wildings. What's the best way to form alliances? Marriage. As we've seen, Dallas is married to Mance, so I don't think Val would be all that opposed to marrying Jon.

I doubt GRRM is killing off Jon. Each of the Stark children have been pushed to their limits to enable the full capacity of their warging. Arya blind, Jon near death so he wargs in to Ghost.

Honestly, to me I don't think he wants love/marriage because he still misses Ygritte. As cheesy as that sounds.

Margaery would be perfect for him (for any guy) but she's not making it out of the first third of Winds.

[Ghost's Shadow]

Tabrett Bethell all the way.

Now you're talking. ;)

Where do I vote? :lol: