Those who Daenerys should not trust.

[Mithras]

Quaithe.

Definitely this.

[Mrs_Darcy]

Quaithe.

That is my opinion as well.

There are some people coming to her, who Dany should not really trust (the Ironborn and Tyrion IMO), but a lot of people Quaithe warned her against would have greatly benefitted her invasion of Westeros.

-A marriage alliance to Quentyn would have given her Dornish support, a region that never could be conquerored be dragons

-A marriage alliance to fAegon would have given her the Golden Company and would have prevented conflicting claims

-Moqorro's order is to support her

Sure, all those people have non-altruistic motives, but who does not?

[Mithras]

That is my opinion as well.

There are some people coming to her, who Dany should not really trust (the Ironborn and Tyrion IMO), but a lot of people Quaithe warned her against would have greatly benefitted her invasion of Westeros.

-A marriage alliance to Quentyn would have given her Dornish support, a region that never could be conquerored be dragons

-A marriage alliance to fAegon would have given her the Golden Company and would have prevented conflicting claims

-Moqorro's order is to support her

Sure, all those people have non-altruistic motives, but who does not?

The Dornish alliance would never work. Dorne does not have the strength to stand against the Iron Throne alone. Dany's dragons seem invincible for most fans but they are very young and can be killed. Their only advantage is the psychological factor. And most important of all, Dany cannot just return to Westeros as easy as it sounds. If she takes the demon road, half of her army would perish and the rest would be killed by any khalassar or the sellswords of Volantis. If she takes the sea route, well she first should find the non-existent ships. Even if she finds them, Volantene Fleet would descend on her again.

Therefore, she should first defeat Volantis before returning to Westeros and Victarion/Tyrion/Moqorro triplet can provide this for her. Eeven after that, there are still many things she should do.

A marriage to fAegon would work well for her but she would be a captive and once she gives heirs to fAegon, they can easily kill her.

Moqorro will help her but some allies are more dangerous than enemies. Just like Mel is screwing Stannis, Benerro will screw Dany.

[MadKingDavid]

Until Arya kills Missandei and steals her face.

From your lips to Arya's ear!

That's a possibility too. To be honest I doubt Aegon will care about the Others, and it's Dany who will go north. If Stannis still lives they might join forces.

I think I don't know enough about Aegon yet to know if he would put the good of the real above his own ambitions. I think too that he might not have a sufficiently defensible position that he could take most of his troops and sail north. (With winter here too I'm not sure how far north he can still sail.) I'm not sure he took a wise course when he invaded Westros with limited forces. From what I can recall of the books, which I've read only once and three years ago, he probably needs to hang on until Danaerys can arrive.

I don't know why Stannis wouldn't do it either, since for now Jon and Stan have the same goal.

I think right now that the biggest liability Stannis faces isn't his own inflexibility but Melisandre's religious fanaticism. If he hadn't insisted, at her behest, that Jon Snow force all the Stark bannermen to burn the gods--both the old and the new--and the creepy Bran-trees, er, weirwood trees--Jon Stark would be Lord of Winterfell and the North, or at least a good part of it, would be rallying to Stannis under him. Of course that might not suffice to bring Bolton back from the Lannisters, or the Karstark's back from wherever, but it would certainly put Stannis in a stronger position to claim the throne than he is now.

[Wmarshal]

As a better opportunity for what?

And another thing isn't it possible that the dance of dragons is actually a battle between 2 actual dragons and not Targaryens/Darkfyres ?

Baby dragons with no form of training, an army made up of Essosi jokes, and a leader who is incredibly easy to fool, they are destined to win.

[Stormland's Fury]

I think right now that the biggest liability Stannis faces isn't his own inflexibility but Melisandre's religious fanaticism. If he hadn't insisted, at her behest, that Jon Snow force all the Stark bannermen to burn the gods--both the old and the new--and the creepy Bran-trees, er, weirwood trees--Jon Stark would be Lord of Winterfell and the North, or at least a good part of it, would be rallying to Stannis under him. Of course that might not suffice to bring Bolton back from the Lannisters, or the Karstark's back from wherever, but it would certainly put Stannis in a stronger position to claim the throne than he is now.

I am not sure if we are disagreeing here at all :) But there are several quotes by Stannis, in private, to several people he doesn't need to convince for his cause, that indicate that he indeed wants to bolster the North against the Others. I think he just wants to have his back free from the Boltons and general unrest and gather as much men as possible (within the North). I don't even think he mentioned the throne that often anymore and didn't express a plan to move south again for now.

[Waylin Stark]

Until Arya kills Missandei and steals her face.

Now that's one hell of a possibility.

Dunno how Arya would learn a bunch of languages at once.

[MadKingDavid]

I am not sure if we are disagreeing here at all :) But there are several quotes by Stannis, in private, to several people he doesn't need to convince for his cause, that indicate that he indeed wants to bolster the North against the Others. I think he just wants to have his back free from the Boltons and general unrest and gather as much men as possible (within the North). I don't even think he mentioned the throne that often anymore and didn't express a plan to move south again for now.

I'm not sure we disagree at all. I don't see Stannis trying to move on the south yet and I so see him being concerned about the Others. (Does he believe in the Others? I can't recall now.) I think he's probably too honorable to dump Melisandre after she killed Renly for him, which means she's likely to continue to be a loadstone around his neck, making the kingship impossible for him. Probably the best thing anyone could do for him would be to kill Melisandre, so that he would feel free to stop forcing everyone under him to give up their gods, which would go a long way toward making him more palatable. I'm not sure though that he's ever even going to make it out of the north.

[Rhaenys Reborn]

The problem I have with Quaithe's prophecy is not who Daenerys shouldn't trust, but who is actually coming to her.

The prophecy states the griffin and the mummer's dragon will come. As we know, the griffin and the mummer's dragon decided not to go to her and completely turned their backs on her. So at least this part of the prophecy isn't true.

[Stormland's Fury]

I'm not sure we disagree at all.

Yeah I see it the same way. He believes in the Others though, or at least he made that impression.

No one needs to kill Mel per se, but Stan would be certainly relieved if she found a new AAR, like Jon Snow. That way she would be off his case but still be useful against the Others.

[MadKingDavid]

The problem I have with Quaithe's prophecy is not who Daenerys shouldn't trust, but who is actually coming to her.

The prophecy states the griffin and the mummer's dragon will come. As we know, the griffin and the mummer's dragon decided not to go to her and completely turned their backs on her. So at least this part of the prophecy isn't true.

Here's the actual prophecy from http://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/Quaithe:

"The glass candles are burning. Soon comes the pale mare, and after her the others. Kraken and dark flame, lion and griffin, the sun's son and the mummer's dragon. Trust none of them. Remember the Undying. Beware the perfumed seneschal."

The prophecy doesn't say that they will come to Danaerys. It just says that they'll come, and certainly the griffin and probably the mummer's dragon (assuming that's Young Griff/Aegon) have come into the scene, into the game of thrones and the song of ice and fire.

Yeah I see it the same way. He believes in the Others though, or at least he made that impression.

No one needs to kill Mel per se, but Stan would be certainly relieved if she found a new AAR, like Jon Snow. That way she would be off his case but still be useful against the Others.

I don't recall anything about Stannis and the Others. I haven't tried checking the books, but a quick run through the wiki at http://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/Stannis_Baratheon#A_Dance_with_Dragons doesn't reveal anything conclusive one way or the other. I'll just say that if Stannis knew about the Others I think he would try to do his kingly duty and defend The Seven Kingdoms from them, even at the risk of weakening his own forces relative to the forces of his rivals.

What does "AAR" mean?

[Stormland's Fury]

I don't recall anything about Stannis and the Others. I haven't tried checking the books, but a quick run through the wiki at http://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/Stannis_Baratheon#A_Dance_with_Dragons doesn't reveal anything conclusive one way or the other. I'll just say that if Stannis knew about the Others I think he would try to do his kingly duty and defend The Seven Kingdoms from them, even at the risk of weakening his own forces relative to the forces of his rivals.

What does "AAR" mean?

There are several quotes though were he tells different people that they have to join forces to fight the common enemy beyond the wall, that's also why he let the Wildlings through.

AAR = Azor Ahai Reborn

“ Demons made of snow and ice and cold. The ancient enemy. The only enemy that matters.^[40] ”

- Stannis to Samwell Tarly, Melisandre, and Aemon

“ The more we bleed each other, the weaker we shall all be when the real enemy falls upon us.^[19] ”

- Stannis to Jon Snow

“ Few of the birds that Maester Aemon had sent off had returned as yet. One reached Stannis, though. One found Dragonstone, and a king who still cared.^[46] ” - Samwell Tarly

[Mrs_Darcy]

The Dornish alliance would never work. Dorne does not have the strength to stand against the Iron Throne alone. Dany's dragons seem invincible for most fans but they are very young and can be killed. Their only advantage is the psychological factor. And most important of all, Dany cannot just return to Westeros as easy as it sounds. If she takes the demon road, half of her army would perish and the rest would be killed by any khalassar or the sellswords of Volantis. If she takes the sea route, well she first should find the non-existent ships. Even if she finds them, Volantene Fleet would descend on her again.

Therefore, she should first defeat Volantis before returning to Westeros and Victarion/Tyrion/Moqorro triplet can provide this for her. Eeven after that, there are still many things she should do.

A marriage to fAegon would work well for her but she would be a captive and once she gives heirs to fAegon, they can easily kill her.

Moqorro will help her but some allies are more dangerous than enemies. Just like Mel is screwing Stannis, Benerro will screw Dany.

The question was not, who would benefit her most militarily, but who she should not trust. There are some people, which could benefit her greatly, but who she nevertheless should not trust, since they openly plan on betraying her. Likewise, there are some people, who are not as big a help for her as others, but who come to her with better intentions.

Since most people Quaithe warned her against are POV characters (Victarion, Griff, Tyrion, Quentyn), the reader knows about their intention and therefore can gauge their trustworthiness.

I would especially not trust Tyrion/Victarion (even though they might be quite helpful), because the former only has thoughts for revenge and thinks he tricked fAegon and the latter plans to kill her husband, steal her dragons and make himself king.

[Bright Blue Eyes]

Here's the actual prophecy from http://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/Quaithe:

"The glass candles are burning. Soon comes the pale mare, and after her the others. Kraken and dark flame, lion and griffin, the sun's son and the mummer's dragon. Trust none of them. Remember the Undying. Beware the perfumed seneschal."

The prophecy doesn't say that they will come to Danaerys. It just says that they'll come, and certainly the griffin and probably the mummer's dragon (assuming that's Young Griff/Aegon) have come into the scene, into the game of thrones and the song of ice and fire.

The glass candles are burning. They are a way of watching the present. Just like a camera (and mic). At the time that Quaithe said so, these people all were currently on their way.

It's not a prophecy, but something based on current observation.

[Hodor the Articulate]

Stannis fans.

[Mithras]

Aerys trusted no one and we know how it ended. I am wondering the basis of the assumption that

1. Quaithe works for the good of Dany and/or

2. she knows what she is talking about unlike Mel, who has pease porridge for wisdom.

[Bright Blue Eyes]

Aerys trusted no one and we know how it ended. I am wondering the basis of the assumption that

1. Quaithe works for the good of Dany and/or

2. she knows what she is talking about unlike Mel, who has pease porridge for wisdom.

Well, Quaithe is an older woman who appears suprficially nice. You know, just like Mirri Maz Duur or the Green Grace. Of course Dany trusts her.

[Lyse Stark]

Aerys trusted no one and we know how it ended. I am wondering the basis of the assumption that

1. Quaithe works for the good of Dany and/or

2. she knows what she is talking about unlike Mel, who has pease porridge for wisdom.

I think Daenerys shouldn't trust Quaithe or herself; especially as you pointed out that Dany ate green berries that Aegon V's donkey Maester wouldn't eat. She has virtually no education, and that's why she fucked up in Mereen, and may the old gods and the new help Westeros if she ever ascends the throne.

But Jon on the other hand had the education that Egg had during his time at the Wall, and his upbringing with a Maester to teach him the basic of lordship may actually benefit him.

[Stormland's Fury]

She has virtually no education, and that's why she fucked up in Mereen, and may the old gods and the new help Westeros if she ever ascends the throne.

I thought that always as weird, since even if Vyserys was meant to take the throne, she still was the princess. Why did no one bother to give her a formal education?

[Bright Blue Eyes]

I thought that always as weird, since even if Vyserys was meant to take the throne, she still was the princess. Why did no one bother to give her a formal education?

Who should do that? Viserys was the only one available, and his education was finished when he was eight. Or maybe a tad later, depending on how competent a teacher Ser Willem Darry was. Certainly a competent master-at-arms, but physically no longer able to teach the sword, nothing was ever said about his less physical teaching.