To catch a Lannister Posted April 25, 2014 Share Posted April 25, 2014 E-Ro-shizzle, many of your argument are total BS. Have you even realized that by the time ADoS come around, it will be Stannis, Dany, FAegon, and Euron who are the big losers, and all four might be six feet under the ground, while the people chose Jon because he chose to protect them. And that the current rounds of claimants may end up killing each other, directly or indirectly? That will produce a power vacuum that will enable the smallfolk to raise up a king of their own choosing.Mance isn't a clown; he cares about his people and he knew that getting beyond the Wall was the best option for his own people, especially with the Others turning so many of their number into wights.Grrm...is, is that you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
E-Ro Posted April 25, 2014 Share Posted April 25, 2014 Grrm...is, is that you?Yeah, for a second I had to stop and think if it could be the author of the series that was responding to me, the way lyse stark spoke with such authority on what was going to happen had me confused. Then i thought, nah, no way its grrm, he would never make such a clown post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
To catch a Lannister Posted April 25, 2014 Share Posted April 25, 2014 Yeah, for a second I had to stop and think if it could be the author of the series that was responding to me, the way lyse stark spoke with such authority on what was going to happen had me confused. Then i thought, nah, no way its grrm, he would never make such a clown post. Hah that's a clown post bro. But to just auto-assume Dany, Jon, Aegon all die/lose, seriously? Sometimes the Jon Snow fan club are completely out there Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
butterbumps! Posted April 25, 2014 Share Posted April 25, 2014 this is why E Ro can't have nice things.....E-Ro-shizzle, many of your argument are total BS. Have you even realized that by the time ADoS come around, it will be Stannis, Dany, FAegon, and Euron who are the big losers, and all four might be six feet under the ground, while the people chose Jon because he chose to protect them. And that the current rounds of claimants may end up killing each other, directly or indirectly? That will produce a power vacuum that will enable the smallfolk to raise up a king of their own choosing.Mance isn't a clown; he cares about his people and he knew that getting beyond the Wall was the best option for his own people, especially with the Others turning so many of their number into wights.Lyse, just to be clear, E Ro thinks basically anyone I like who's in opposition to Stannis in some way is a "clown." I wouldn't take these posts seriously, as they're pretty much just geared toward senselessly trolling me. Like, this is basically about his wanting me to argue on the pro-Stannis side of any debates and being pissed off that it's not forthcoming. Yeah, for a second I had to stop and think if it could be the author of the series that was responding to me, the way lyse stark spoke with such authority on what was going to happen had me confused. Then i thought, nah, no way its grrm, he would never make such a clown post.are you insane, brah? this is "giving me much duress" [sic]. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
E-Ro Posted April 25, 2014 Share Posted April 25, 2014 Ok, for solidarity, Lyse stark i shouldn't have called your post moronic, my bad. That being said, I disagree. Hopefully we can move past this altercation.this is why E Ro can't have nice things.....Lol your supposed to protect me from myself, so that this stuff doesn't happen. But Your not doing such a good job lately. Lyse, just to be clear, E Ro thinks basically anyone I like who's in opposition to Stannis in some way is a "clown." I wouldn't take these posts seriously, as they're pretty much just geared toward senselessly trolling me. Like, this is basically about his wanting me to argue on the pro-Stannis side of any debates and being pissed off that it's not forthcoming.I might have been a tad too defensive, but I was just expressing my thoughts on the matter. I mean yeah, perhaps calling mance a clown was wrong but it seemed like the right thing to do at the time.As for you arguing pro stannis, well, I would be thrilled. But I'm resigned to the fact that it's not happening.are you insane, brah? this is "giving me much duress" [sic].lol. It's ok brah, I know from experience, the duress goes away eventually. I suppose what I'm trying to express with this post is my contriteness, and puissance. I hope that came across. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ejhawman Posted April 25, 2014 Share Posted April 25, 2014 Sums up the situation quite nicely, I think. I agree Dany's education in leadership should be done less expensively. She needs JonCon and a speta, maester, or other tutor to get the training fAegon got. For that matter: was Viserys educated that way, too? It seems he could have been, and was simply a poor student. Or demoralized by so many years of waiting for things to happen. Dany, of course, would not have been trained in the same things because, well, she was only a girl, who would expect her to WANT to be queen regnant rather than consort? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frey Pentos Posted April 26, 2014 Share Posted April 26, 2014 Ok what do you think? You think people just pull these reforms off in a couple of years? How about ten? How about 20? The reason I am the one putting a time frame on it is BECAUSE THESE TYPE OF SOCIAL REFORMS TAKE A LONG TIME. The fact she doesn't ever think about the time it will take, means she still seems to be a little clueless. Why does she have to be there in person? Slavery in America didn't reappear because Lincoln was assassinated. She could crush her remaining enemies and leave a stable government i(with Unsullied loyal to her) n Meereen while she heads off to Westeros. Who knows what will happen? Maybe Essos will become the Eastern half of her Planetos Empire. I actually think her storyline would have benefitted from the 5 yr break so that her dragons could grow and a lot of this 'whataboutery' would be unnecessary. Damned Meereenese knot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldGimletEye Posted April 26, 2014 Share Posted April 26, 2014 Why does she have to be there in person? Slavery in America didn't reappear because Lincoln was assassinated. She could crush her remaining enemies and leave a stable government i(with Unsullied loyal to her) n Meereen while she heads off to Westeros. Who knows what will happen? Maybe Essos will become the Eastern half of her Planetos Empire. I actually think her storyline would have benefitted from the 5 yr break so that her dragons could grow and a lot of this 'whataboutery' would be unnecessary. Damned Meereenese knot. No Lincoln wasn't there in person to manage the emancipation of the slaves. But, there was a stable government after Lincoln died. And their was an army loyal to the state, not to a particular person, to make sure slavery didn't return, along with three constitutional amendments. And there were other politicians just as committed to the cause as Lincoln had been, or maybe even more so, since Lincoln was a relative moderate. And even then it took years and years to improve the plight of former slaves. It wasn't until 1964 that a Civil Rights Bill was passed(at least one with teeth), almost a hundred years after the Civil War ended. And Dany is the only one at present that can maintain order in slavers bay. There is no indication that she has found or will find the people that can make the type of institutional reforms that are needed. This idea that some Dany fans have, that she is going to successfully reform Slavers Bay in 3 years, before skipping off to conquer Westeros, I think is delusional. Edited For Grammar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frey Pentos Posted April 26, 2014 Share Posted April 26, 2014 No Lincoln wasn't there in person to manage the emancipation of the slaves. But, there was a stable government after Lincoln died. And their was an army loyal to the state, not to a particular person to make sure slavery didn't return, along with three constitutional amendments. And there were other politicians were just as committed to the cause as Lincoln had been, or maybe even more so, since Lincoln was a relative moderate. And even then it took years and years to improve the plight of former slaves. It wasn't until 1964 a Civil Rights Bill was passed, almost a hundred years after the Civil War ended. And Dany is the only one at present that can maintain order in slavers bay. There is no indication that she has found or will find the people that can make the type of institutional reforms that are needed. It's fiction dude. Just use your imagination. Slavers bay isn't going back to the way it was even if she leaves and leaves no government behind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parwan Posted April 26, 2014 Share Posted April 26, 2014 I say that the argument quoted in the OP gives us far too negative a view of Dany. Overall, I buy the "grey character" approach. SeanF's posts on the matter are good. Butterbumps has some good thoughts. There are others whose views I think give us a more rounded picture of Dany. Some of the points in the OP argument are well made. Some are quite weak. I think that the criticisms "owes literally everything she has to her dragons" and "refusing to hear what sort of man her father really was" are severe exaggerations. Concerning the second one, I started a thread entitled "Dany Changes." You can find it here: http://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/topic/85052-dany-changes/ I stand by the things I posted in that thread. Some of the more general ideas I referred to in the thread can be found at: http://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/topic/85950-systemic-problems/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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